Jocko Homo
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Posts posted by Jocko Homo
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Congrats to all on a fair peace.
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[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1297269856' post='2627059']When I get within range, I will do my best to help you with that.[/quote]
Well, let's see. You are currently about 2.5X larger than me but judging by the fact your size has been halved in the last two weeks while I have actually increased modestly, I guess I'll be seeing you in about a week! I'll keep an offensive slot open since you'll no doubt be in anarchy and need someone else to do the declaring. Of course, no promises but I will try my best to reach out for you as you zoom by on your way to ZI.
[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1297284742' post='2627202']I like you, FAN, a lot more than I like NPO[/quote]
And I can say with complete confidence that we like you guys a hell of a lot more than NPO.
Actually, that statement is almost useless since I like a lone floater, bobbing up and down in the toiled bowl better than I like the NPO. But you know what I mean. -
[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297240323' post='2626822']
Uh, no, that's not what Cortath said. He said that Dilber and Moo weren't running things anymore.
[/quote]
[size="4"][b]WRONG![/b][/size]
He said they did not have "[b]ANY[/b] active role."
If you are claiming that you see no difference between "running things" and having "ANY active role" then either you are simply spouting off what you think people on "your side" are supposed to say or you really need to go back to 2nd grade and do that whole reading comprehension section again. -
[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1297267415' post='2627022']This whole issue is FAN grasping at straws in order to justify their continuing anger when they really don't have to justify it. Let's just fight and stop trying to win some miniscule propaganda point.[/quote]
Hey Joe,
I am fighting. I have offensively engaged six different NPO nations during this war. Five of them bigger than me. I'm still haven't been anarchied yet but every nation I have engaged sure has.
On a slighty different note, you do realize "I[b]z[/b]uzu" is supposed to be spelled "I[b]s[/b]uzu" right?
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[quote name='Demetrus' timestamp='1297229194' post='2626661']
FAN received an assurance that none of the old crowd "had an active role" in government affairs. One post by Dilber (and none by Moo) in all these screen dumps does not constitute "active". You can be inactive but still pop in from time to time to say hello. It's obvious FAN were just looking for an excuse to shut down communications, and once they found it, they took the opportunity.
[/quote]
"pop in from time to time to say hello."
[i][size="5"]"pop in from time to time to say hello.?!?![/size][/i]
I'm sorry, but that is the single most stupid thing I have seen posted in a long time, and thats saying something.
"pop in from time to time to say hello." -
[quote name='Sir Paul' timestamp='1297229891' post='2626680']
RE: Jocko - If we are such lying !@#$%^&* back in January, why re-establish relations with us in May? Remember, that whole active embassy you still have in Francograd? It's not like you never spoke to us again... [/quote]
Because we were actually trying to move past our differences with NPO. But we found again that you were not trying to move beyond them, you were just stalling for time.
[quote name='Sir Paul' timestamp='1297229891' post='2626680']
RE: Jocko - Also, my "valid" "CB" concern stemmed from, I believe, a (then) recent Athens attack using a stale CB. My concern is that MK and FAN were the type of people who may, in the future, attack us for no reason, except some rablings about not sending a Valentines Day card. The world would view it as "valid" because, hey, why not? [/quote]
I just love it when you get cornered.
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[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1297225637' post='2626581']
So I saw one post from Dilber, offering his advice. Man, that's some crazy huge activity there, apparently.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Note the quotes around valid and CB. I believe Sir Paul is saying that there are alliances, like MK and FAN, who would attack us at any point in the future for things we did in the past.
Not that they would [i]ever[/i] do that, I'm sure.
[/quote]
You seem to be missing the point (but you're NPO so it's to be expected ). [i]Any[/i] participation in the direct planning for NPO's future puts the lie to Cortaths statement that Dilber does not have "[b]any[/b] active role in the affairs of our governance"
We saw this as proof that Cortath was trying like mad to position NPO into a spot where they could grow back to a powerhouse and trying to mollify FAN and MK by any means necessary, up to and including lying.
That fact is why we closed their consulate. -
Also, just to clarify where these screen caps came from. Sometime around January 20th or so of 2010 the GATO forums were hacked. Somehow the hacker got a bunch of passwords along with user accounts (didn't think that was possible
) An NPO Imperial Officer had an account on the GATO forums with the same username and password as on the NPO forum and the hacker ran wild inside not only the NPO but other alliance forums as well. These screenshots were posted on an offsite blog touting the attack and there was a general scare all across CN for everybody to change passwords. These screen shots coincide almost exactly with the opening of the NPO Consulate within FAN and after reading these pics it's obvious why NPO had come knocking. -
I especially love where Sir Paul (The OP of this thread!!!) says:
[quote name='Sir Paul']
"Now, remember that there are people out there with a "Valid" "CB" against us and they never expire.[/quote]
How about it Sir Paul, care to elaborate on that little tidbit of info rather than the tripe you started this thread with? -
[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1297215470' post='2626347']
Actually that was me. STA member and historic long time NPO detractor. The reason I didn't go straight to "yeah, they're evil liars" is because I don't have all the facts. That I leaned in your direction at all means something, a lot in fact. But you guys, the ones who gave into paranoia and launched an unprovoked bandwagoning attack, aren't exactly the pillars of trustworthiness here. Why should anyone trust your portrayal of events above that of the NPO ambassador who posted in here?
Also in any of these logs or stolen forum pages was there an indication that the NPO held ill will towards FAN? Any reason not to trust Cortath's outreach? You guys had some pretty privileged info it sounds like, surely you found something besides Cortath's overstatement/lie/whatever.
[/quote]
Before studying these screen captures, repeat this to yourself in your best Cortath impersonation:
"neither Moo-Cows nor Dilber nor Umbrae have any active role in the affairs of our governance"
And look at this thread, look at the opening sentance in the first Cortath post and decide for yourself if this was not the central planning thread for the Post Terms NPO. Spoiler: It is, and you are looking at the real people who run the NPO. (I love that they appear to be scared !@#$less of FAN and call MK an enemy alliance).
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO1.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO2.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO3.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO4.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO5.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO6.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO7.jpg[/img]
[img] https://sites.google.com/site/npopics/home/NPO8.jpg[/img] -
[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1297207947' post='2626133']
No, it couldn't be that simple now, could it? I think that proper thing here to do is to hang on Cortath's words and twist them in bad faith.
So does it matter that Dilber is not even in the alliance any longer? Of course not.
Anyway, diplomacy is overrated. Better to not talk to some people, ever. Hope we do exactly that in the future, words are a wastin'.
Fine issue but I really loved the flag with the gun. Sexy.
[/quote]
This only makes sense if your replace the word "forthcoming" with "truthful".
Oh yeah, I forgot, [i]it's just semantics[/i]. You guys get caught in an outright lie and intentional deception than say [i]you could have been more forthcoming[/i]. How about cutting out the !@#$%^&* and just saying you shouldn't have lied. Especially when your new gimmick is to repeat over and over that you all have changed and are now just kittens who fart rainbows.
(That's an awesome visual if you just think about it fr a while. ) -
[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1297205127' post='2626090']
As for the NPO thing, if the facts are as FAN says they are, then Cortath should have been more forthcoming. It does sound like Cortath's point was more "They're not in control of things, I am." though.
[/quote]
Let me boil it down as simply as possible:
Cortath: I'm new. The old leaders are gone and I will do things differently. NPO is no threat to you.
FAN: We dont like NPO and we don't trust you. We trusted you guys once and look what it got us.
Cortath: But that was not me. This old bad people are gone. I'm different, you can trust me.
FAN: They are not gone, just out of the limelight. We don't trust them so we don't trust you.
Cortath: "neither Moo-Cows nor Dilber nor Umbrae have any active role in the affairs of our governance"
Logs leak showing Dilber having a very active yet hidden role in the affairs of the NPO governance...
FAN: The leaked screenshots conflict with your earlier statement about Dilber.
Cortath: "this is an argument over semantics."
The thrust of Cortath's approach to us was that the old leaders no longer had any active role in the governance of the NPO and that he as the new leader could be trusted. The first was conclusively proven to be false (a lie ), so the second was obviously false as well.
NPO hasn't changed, only their propaganda has. -
[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1297190220' post='2625875']As I stated before, your posts simply show that you are angry that Moo/Dilber were not exiled; you do not create a convincing argument that they still control the NPO. You also do not establish your case that Cortath lied to you. [/quote]
I didn't say "that they still control the NPO".
The screenshots pretty clearly show Dilber, Cortath and others taking an [b][i]active role[/i][/b] in the the planning of the future path of NPO. This was literally within days of Cortath stating to us that dilber did not have [b]"any active role in the affairs of our governance"[/b].
Sorry Joe, wrong answer but thanks for playing. -
CONTINUED.........
At this point something interesting happened. NPO's forum was hacked by someone. Super high level access screenshots were leaked of NPO's current post-peace-terms strategic planning. In these screenshots, the leadership was planning the path NPO must take to ensure they don't get hit the instant the terms expire (who would do such a thing?) The status of negotiations with alliances were updated regarding treaty negotiations and the participants in the thread reads like a who's who of NPO, including the current Emperor and many I/O's. This was not a discussion, this was a planning thread among the participants themselves. One main participant was Dilber, chief perpetrator of NPO's war on FAN and who in Cortaths post above does not "have any active role in the affairs of our governance".
[quote name='FAN']
Cortath, I do not condone you're forum being hacked. That being said it was and unfortunately, the items posted and your statements to me on IRC last night conflict with the above quote big time.
This is not semantics. You had the opportunity to tell the truth and you chose not to. Once a week, once a day, once a month, Dilber IS in fact still active and by your own words last night still offering his thoughts and advice.
You can get 50 spin doctors to do what you will with this but the fact is you lied to us plain and simple.[/quote]
Now, remember GATO and Chris Kaos? Remember NPO rolling GATO because of his continued involvement in their government?
Cortaths response to this little inconsistancy?
[quote name='Cortath']As I told you in query, this is an argument over semantics.[/quote]
That's an interesting take. Saying [b]"neither Moo-Cows nor Dilber nor Umbrae have any active role in the affairs of our governance"[/b] while they are in fact participating in the closed doors long term planning of the future of the alliance. You call that semantics, we call that intentional deception at best and an outright lie at worst. And not an insignificant lie as the status of Dilber and Moo is at the utter core of any potential FAN/NPO relations.
NPO said they came to us to "build a bridge". The very basis of their bridges foundation was a lie. Who knows how many more they are telling. We didn't do anything about it then other than shut the consulate. They could go lie to someone else, we saw they were still the worthless liars they had always been.
In Cortaths opening statement he said:
[quote name='Cortath']As I march my alliance towards the future, I seek to forge a new path through CyberNations, which FAN is inevitably a part of...[/quote]
Notice how he said "through CyberNations" not "In CyberNations". I know, I know, semantics... -
If you're going to make so many references to the NPO lying to you, care to share what you were actually lied to about?
[/quote]
Sure.
I'm going to paraphrase for simplicity since the facts are not in question.
Cortath came to the newly created NPO consulate at the FAN embassies and gave his hello I am Cortath speech and said "I do not know many of you and you do not know me."
We said we remembered NPO and that "It was a long two years and the terms "die" were a bit harsh." And why should we believe that as soon as NPO regains it's strength they wont try to finish what they started? We said that we thought the extreme duration of the length of the war was due to NPO's fear of FAN.
[quote name='Cortath']I would disagree. I think the length of the war was more a product of miscommunication on both sides. While I expect you may point to Umbrae Noctem's ([edit]not sure if it was him, now that I think of it) "die" comment, he did not speak to us on Foreign Affairs (he was an Imperial Officer of Military Affairs) and he was not the Emperor. Were I he, I would have handled the matter differently, but what is done is done.
[b]Regardless of what one can say about my predecessors and their fear or lack thereof, one thing can be said of them, and that is that they are gone, and I remain.[/b][/quote]
Take very special note of the bolded parts as we will return to them.
We questioned that statement:
[quote name='FAN']Gone? moo and dilber are not gone, they are just out of the limelight.[/quote]
[quote name='Cortath']"They're gone in that I haven't slaughtered them and thrown them to the dogs, so no, they're not "gone." *chuckles* We are a militaristic organization. I am the Emperor, and they are no longer in the chain of command, so I would consider them, politically speaking, "gone."
[/quote]
[quote name='FAN']The typical FAN member is pretty much positive that NPO has not changed at all. Seeing names like Dilber, Vladimir, Umbrae, Mary in the highest positions of your government pretty much kills the “we are different” argument. Saying Moo is essentially gone but having him idling in #NSA makes us think twice about everything we hear. ...snip... In short, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders. You placed it there yourself since the last time we had an agreement NPO broke it spectacularly. Consequently, we don't give NPO's word much weight (actually zero) and right now that's all you offer. I know it was not YOUR word that was broken in the past. But since I don't know you I have to make my judgments based on the company you keep.[/quote]
[quote name='Applesauce59(NPO ambassador)']
Now i already know (your) counter to this. It doesn't matter if the members have changed if the government controls the show. ...snip...(but) This has changed. I have watched order members not only express opinions on all kinds of issues that were negative in nature but watch as Cortath listened and took those opinions into account. The views of the Body Republic do matter now and since most of the members don't have the biased towards FAN there is no longer the same hatred. [/quote]
[quote name='FAN']NPO has ALWAYS been run by that inner circle and while perhaps there have been a few changes in personnel, there is no question that they are still running the show.[/quote]
[quote name='Cortath']I'm not a purger. Never have been. [b]While neither Moo-Cows nor Dilber nor Umbrae have any active role in the affairs of our governance any more,[/b] I'm not going to purge them from the alliance. If simply maintaining them in our alliance is a "sign" to you that we haven't changed, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do. Your alliance and whatever sins it may have committed in the eyes of the greater CN community, still maintains much of its old leadership, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as del solid said, that you recognize you (as are we) are on your last chance. [/quote]
CONTINUED......... -
[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1297129419' post='2624886']
I don't like TOP. At all. I can't think of a significant alliance I like less, honestly. But you Invict-O-Sphere lot are doing such an incredibly poor job with your smear campaign that I'm feeling sympathy for them. So I'm gonna restate some facts and ask any of you to politely point out where I've gone wrong so I can keep on hating TOP like I really, really want to do.
1. TOP is treatied to MK and while not required to assist them in attacks derived from aggressive was, is strongly encouraged to.
2. TOP has no commitments to TSI, NADC, 64D or SNAFU.
3. TSI, NADC, 64D and SNAFU all entered by way of similar non-chaining clauses as mentioned in point 1, so TOP's attacks on them are precisely equal in validity to their own attacks on MK.
4. The assorted alliances at war with Doomhouse aside from the aforementioned have their mid and upper tiers in peace mode.
5. TOP is probably going to take more damage from fighting these four alliances than they would from fighting anyone else currently engaged on the front.
If I'm wrong about any of this, please point it out to me. TOP's history has been anything but sterling, but for the life of me I can't figure out anything they're doing wrong here.
[/quote]
Hey, hold on there, just stop - that - right - now.
There will be nop common sense or truth telling allowed in this thread by those on your side. Didn't you get the freakin memo? Either get with the program or get out. -
[quote name='Sir Paul' timestamp='1297143017' post='2625311']
Jocko, good of you to drop by, what with all my selective editing! Ok grandpa, let's do this together!
blabitty blabitty blah blah blah....[/quote]
There, i fixed it for you.
But in all seriousness, you make a point, so I will address it.
We opened a consulate and invited a delegation from NPO to join us for talks. Cortath and a few others came.
Cortath immediately fell into a "NPO has changed, don't judge us on our past actions, judge us on what I say we will do in the future. Trust me, I speak the truth" routine.
Within a week we discovered that the very basis of Cortaths statements to FAN were an outright lie. It went downhill from there. You see this as "Opening a dialog", we saw it as proof positive that the "NEW" NPO was the same as the "OLD" NPO.
In short, you lied, we caught you, we threw you out.
That's your idea of "Opening a Dialog"? Lying? -
The solution is simple. Make a list of all nations flying an alliance AA and/or fighting in the alliance war. Keep it updated. Everybody on the list is involved in the surrender and goes down together regardless of the aa they change to after the war. That's what we are doing this time.
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[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1297098242' post='2624141']
So when will you join Emperor Anarch in his mission to take back the Pacifican throne?
[/quote]
After I have sated my desire to be the most God-awful Viceroy CN has ever seen, I will gladly install Anarch as the head of a puppet regime. At which point he may do with them as he wishes. -
[img]http://fangamers.net/imagehosting/884d507b213cd0a.gif[/img]
Feel free to use it if you agree with it. -
[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1297115198' post='2624500']
In FAN's defense, I can state quite categorically that a representative from FAN (Jack Tarr, btw) was the first person to visit the reformed Nordreich with the intention of mending fences. They understood that 'Overlord' had been a PR disaster -- and, indeed, it was one of the reasons they were booted from the Initiative --
[/quote]
And to think it seemed like such a great idea at the time. -
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1297109143' post='2624398']This war is blatant aggression, it is unfair, it is unjustified and it is unprovoked.[/quote]
Isn't that cute. An NPO member crying that something is unfair.
[img]http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/507/crying_baby.jpg[/img]
There there little buddy, Uncle Jocko be here to keep the bad guys away.
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1297109143' post='2624398']If you do not need legitimacy, stop trying to gain it. And just fight.[/quote]
As to fighting, well, 6 days ago I attacked 3 NPO nations, all larger than me. They have all three been in anarchy since about 5 minutes into the war. I still have not been in anarchy yet and all 3 of my defensive slots are still open. I am fighting 1v3 and it could be 1v6 but the biggest problem I face is getting all the NPO ass off my boots. So maybe you should dry your eyes and send some talent over to *at the very least* put me into anarchy.
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=288689 -
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1297102775' post='2624240']All this double talk about how it's all "NPO's fault" that you weren't accommodated to the extent you claim would have been enough simply smacks of politicized propaganda. Do you really need that? Are you honestly in a position where you are seeking some sort of extra "legitimacy" for your aggression? Because you aren't going to find it in that line of thought. I very much doubt FAN needs that kind of legitimacy in the first place.[/quote]
The fact that you are stating that we (FAN) clearly don't need to gain any additional support via propaganda is brilliant considering you are saying this in an NPO propaganda thread. The sad (hilarious) fact that you have been attacked yet are still viewed with such disdain that you must try to propagandize your way out of it is just so awesome. Please guys, just surrender now. I promise we will be gentle.
But to answer your question, no, we definitely don't need any additional legitimacy for our position. We have that in spades. The sheer number of people, even NPO members, posting that they understand why FAN is fighting has provided us with all the legitimacy anybody in CN could ever hope to have even in their wildest dreams. But, I have to admit, it's really nice to be fighting and to have an ironclad legitimacy to your battle. We have not been forced to defend our actions to anybody recently because they simply make perfect sense to all who view them. -
[quote name='Zhaan' timestamp='1297096894' post='2624098']
From the outside looking in, it appears FAN has made the only real attempts at mending relations. But, I'm not privy to anymore than I can read on these forums.
The truth is that two civilized leaders coming to the table to talk as educated men can resolve conflict and restore faith for all nations under their care and guidance. Is that really so hard? The only thing that will happen here is NPO and FAN continue to tear each other down while the rest of the world eventually moves onward and upward. Pity.
[/quote]
Zhann, You are exactly right. That's why FAN hosted private talks with NPO after the Karma war. We realized that it was in our best interest to move on. But to move on we had to be sure both of us moved on. We said it pretty clearly right out of the gate.
[quote name='DelSolid (Bad JuJu)']
If we go to war with each other, regardless of the stated CB, it will be seen by all as the two rabid dogs fighting again, proving that the second chances we were both given were a waste. If we go to war again we will both be damned by the entirety of CN and coupled with neither side willing to surrender our war will effectively be to the death. We may roll around grappling with each other for 10 years but as far as CN is concerned we will both be irrelevant and they will go on without us.[/quote]
FAN wanted to move on. We hosted those talks in private so we could sit down and talk frankly, without the public relations posturing that public talks so often degrade into. I think those extracts shown here clearly show that FAN was 100% on board, but unfortunately we learned that we were the only ones prepared to talk openly and honestly and the talks ended under yet another cloud of NPO deception.
The Amazing Sanction Race
in Open World RP
Posted
[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1297298752' post='2627444']
I just realized, no one has Counter-DoW'd on FAN
[/quote]
Just be patient, it will happen.