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Rajistani

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Posts posted by Rajistani

  2. The Amazing Sanction Race

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    No surprise there.

    If we didn't pass Sparta with that, I'm not sure we'll be able to now. :)

    your only .1 away! :D yay (p.s. i hate your sarcasm)

    Slow day but since FOK lost we are getting very close to them.

    Also is NPO like soley focusing on RoK?

    RoK has the most slots in the war... i guess they didn't realize that even though NPO as an alliance is down, its individual nations can still fight =/ I'm sure they will rebuild quickly though.

  5. A Short Announcement from the GDA

    in Alliance Announcements (IC)

    Posted · Edited by Rajistani

    Why did they send aid to Pacificans? Did they provide reasons? And were these reasons taken into consideration before making this decision?

    However, from all appearances it seems currently that GDA has made an honourable decision. Hail! :)

    They were real life friends i believe.

    Please note that Sparta did not ask for the members to be kicked out as the peace terms stated, but we gave the option to have reps paid so GDA could keep their members. They still chose to cut the members. Sparta had brought only reps to the table at the start of the talks, and GDA were the ones that first mentioned the clause in their surrender terms.

    300 million for a nuke or two is hardly cheap. I understand 230 million was for VE nations, and 70 was for Sparta, but still 70 million is steep. We recently lost 3 million of our tNS in war, we cannot afford this, we have members to rebuild.

    Edit: typo

  7. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    NPO has 450k tech. They are required to pay only 300k tech. An average large nation will have around 5k tech. This can all be sent in around 5 months. Countless more nations will be able to buy tech with daily tax collections and warchests.

    /thread

    It can only be paid by nations above 1,000 tech.

    Sure could have fooled me with all the winging you did.

    What is winging? (im being serious, not familiar with the term)

    So now that your alliance is no longer top tog and can't push people around as they see fit, your members public reaction is..

    "BAAAAW YOU GUYS ARE NO FUN, I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME!!!"

    Seriously, you sat around for years dishing it out, and when its your turn to be on the receiving end its time to pack it in? I hope for your sake hes an isolated case in terms of your membership.

    How many nations have left VE since you started this war? Exactly.

    Bolded above is a blatant lie, or proof you have not read the surrender terms.

    The terms state that the nations above 1k at at the time of the acceptance of the terms are the ones to send out the specified tech. There is no requirement to keep those nations at or above 1k tech during the 2 weeks of required war, or during the time where NPO issues payments.

    This is an attempted spin of the terms to try to gather more pity to you and your alliance.

    OOC: heh, I've been there man, I quit CN once, but came back. Good luck out there :)

    Original terms: "All reparations of technology must be paid by nations with greater than or equal to 1000.00 technology at the end of the above-mentioned 14 day period."

    Terms reworded: Click

    Note that the terms are reworded A DAY after NPO posts that. That means they weren't changed while NPO gave the counter offer, or while considering that counter offer. This means Karma wanted it to be 1000 tech after the 14 days (+ the undetermined period of getting 90% of nations in war mode) for atleast 7 days.

  9. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    yeah that was the second time around after NPO screwed them over with the first set of peace terms and subsequently attacked the entire alliance over a few probable accounts of nations actually not abiding by the peace terms. The rest were quite questionable. Then the second war lasted 2 years or so.

    NPO is not paying reps as they seem to have quite a huge problem with doing so. i thought that was the point of this thread here.

    1) FAN was offered terms after they violated (theres multiple screen shots of them violating, yeah by 5% over their soldier allowance in some cases, but thats still violating. It was 80% of FAN in violation).

    2) NPO has no problem paying reps, or even more than the reps amount. I believe the problem is that NPO doesn't want their banks to be nukes for an undetermined amount of days PLUS fourteen days, and then be forced to pay all those reps.

    It's been so often by so many, once more won't hurt.

    If your banks are carrying such small war chests that two weeks of war renders them poverty bound, you are doing it wrong.

    Edit: to=/=it

    Not all nations in peace mode are banks, some are people who are graduating from college now and don't have time to be on, some are out of the country on summer trips, etc.

    Also, as the OP suggests, these banks would need 1.8 billion to handle ONLY fourteen days of war, plus whatever more days are added.

    With the change to the war-system just the other day (thanks, admin), turtling is no longer an option.

    Turtling gives money to the attacker from the game, not the turtlers' nation.

    It cant be revenge because some of the alliances involved were involved with the beat downs of FAN, GATO etc

    QFT.

    What? I think you need to re-read the terms ;)

    The terms were changed by Londo. It was originally nations who had 1,000+ tech AFTER the fourteen days of war. Link to change click.

    They are non-negotiable because moo was addressing a messenger not a negotiator, not to belittle Londo's efforts here, but he can't speak for all 18 alliances he can only tell the NPO what the 18 alliances have agreed on.

    Londo said multiple times that "we will not change terms" etc. There are IRC logs posted all over the place.

  12. Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

    in Alliance Announcements (IC)

    Posted

    You are kidding right?

    The irony of you calling out other alliances as back stabbing when LoSS mass cancelled about every single treaty that it had in one post days before a war started involving those very same alliances. Then signing a treaty with an alliance that would put you on the other side of the war on the same day, thus flip flopping every aspect of your foreign policy from many months before. You have no right to talk about back stabbing my friend.

    LoSS... ODN... many others.

    MHA who entered on the other side late in the war even though they had 4 treaties being called on from the other side, before entering on the winning side.

    But thats neither here nor there :unsure:

  13. Most important/controversial/revolutionary event ever?

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    Having been going for over 3 and a half years, CyberNations has seen a tremendous magnitude of people and occurrences that have changed the world. Which event however, in the entire history of the planet, has been the most significant? The one that has revolutionised this game for better or for worse?

    Discuss. :awesome:

    The addition of "Alliance affiliation" to the nations.

  14. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    well this certainly sounds somewhat familiar. didn't NPO pull some weak crap with FAN over peace terms that ended up in what 2 years or so of war?

    FAN said they would only take white peace; NPO is paying the reps, they have no problem doing so.

    Hey, I have never been a fan of huge terms. I enjoyed seeing so much white peace in this war. However, I do think that the alliances that were part of Q and 1V should have been given normal terms, and that NPO should be given the type of terms they would give if they were in Karma's shoes. If NPO was winning this war, most likely they would be giving similar terms to the alliances at war with them. NPO has proven before that white peace doesn't work on them. They came back to destroy all the alliances that gave them that white peace.

    There is a time for morals. There is also a time for logic. This is the time for logic.

    Also, don't tell me about who has the high horse. You sure didn't seem to care when NPO was the one giving GPA the largest terms in history.

    GPA was also the largest alliance in history. Even larger than NPO is/was now/at their peak. But yes, I see your point.

    No, they terms include the NPO banks who have sat on the side lines this whole time getting two weeks of war, THEN the fighting stops and rep payments begin.

    PS. If a self professed bank isn't sitting on on a war chest large enough to war for 2 weeks and then rebuild themselves, said bank is weapons grade stupid.

    My numbers on the reps are a wee bit more interesting.

    We currently see the first three pages on NPO nations in peace mode. So let us go with the number of 60 banks just for the reps, any other nations able can help with the rebuilding of the alliance right away. Let us also assume that each nation has a DRA, NPO tells us that combat orders mean only banks are allowed to be in peace mode longer than the 5 day minimum, so again any bank without a DRA is a pretty poor excuse for a bank.

    7 billion / 60 nations = $116,666,666.66~ per nation

    6 aid slots * 3mil a piece = 18 mil an aid cycle

    $116,666,666.66~ / 18 mil is 6.5 (i rounded up) aid cycles, or a little over two months.

    The tech of course takes longer but mostly because its just harder to move tech than cash. however assuming 50 tech goes out with each cash payment about 115,000 tech is served in the same time. however thats with a very small sample size. The current number of NPO nations eligible to send tech is 181, but lets go with 150 for easy math and a lowball since who knows some people might not chip in. Now you'd also figure somebody with enough wealth to be over 1000 tech would have a DRA as well, but maybe not, in the interest of being generous we'll say only 5 aid slots for tech a nation.

    150*5*50= 37,500 tech an aid cycle, or if you need it the other way 8 aid cycles to pay it off or a little under three months. If we do assume 6 aid slots for all 150 that number changes to 45,000 tech an aid cycle for 6.666~ aid cycles to pay it off. In short, the NPO could be free to terms in a hair over two months if they took the terms now and put the much vaunted Pacifican banking system to work. Also the numbers I've worked out has less than 10% of their alliance paying the cash, and about 20% of the alliance paying tech. Not exactly huge participation numbers.

    Its also interesting to note that spreading the load out like that means each nation paying hits 6k tech payed total, most are holding onto well under this. It means they can buy tech from 0 as they need to send it out there by drastically reducing the cost of paying off the reps.

    And finally, for the complaint about the war depleting their banks and making them unable to pay, first and foremost, if your banks are reduced to poverty after two weeks of war, your doing it wrong. And second, if Karma judges that the NPO is too beaten to pay (these are banks, if they've been banks a long time who knows, they may utterly suck at war) then its written right into the terms that the amounts can be lowered.

    Edit: oh yes, it case its not obvious, the longer they fight the longer it will take them to pay off the tech portion of the reps, as more nations slip under the 1k tech mark.

    You seem to have skipped a few key points:

    - It can only be paid by people above 1,000 tech

    - You are saying Every nation in peac emode has been in peace mode since the beginning, thats not the case, only 63 have. So your number 60, suggests all of them have about 2 bill saved, which can't be the case since some are in the middle of jumps (one is at like 5,050 iirc), which means they have little to no warchest. Otherwise they would have put it in infra, especially if they have around 2 billion. Also, if you divide the number of wonders these "banks" have with their seniority and correlate it with the fact that they have never been in war (as moo said in some logs), you will see that they haven't been buying wonders every 30 days. If they had warchests so large, it is probable that they would be doing so. Also, only 25 have bought wonders since the war started, 58 days, which means that approximately 35 don't have an excessively large war chest.

    - Some others coverd by other people.

    You underestimate the number of peace mode nations with really large warchests. You also have them only using 3 slots, using the rest for rebuilding. If they are using half of them for rebuilding, they'll be able to relatively quickly (within a month or so) build up a bunch of other nations with tons of economic improvements and wonders into banking range.

    Your interpretation of the technology terms is simply incorrect, the nations have to have 1000 tech at the point the terms are signed, they don't have to have 1000 tech when paying the reps.

    See above. Also, that 1000 tech was clarified by Londo while i was posting this in the 60 page thread. The original terms said that they had to have 1,000 tech. :ph34r:

    I know I'm not Azaghul, but would think the answer is obvious. Thats something the NPO could have talked about before going public with the PR attempt. Now however after a PR stunt, they might find it harder to gain sympathy for their logistical difficulties in complying with the terms.

    An obvious solution that could have been explored is expelling members who aren't obeying the order to leave peace mode, combined with a list of those expelled being attacked afterwards to insure its not just an attempt to get banks out of the line of fire.

    I believe the problem is not the amount of reps, or the fact that nations will be attacked or forced to exit peace mode. The problem is that natoins will be forced to exit peace mode and stay out of peace mode until 90% of NPO is out of peace mode PLUS 14 days.

    Edit so as not to double post.

    What poor math? you mean multiplication? or are you claiming that asking 10% of your alliance to pay cash while 20% of it pays tech is too high an efficiency for the much bragged of Pacifican bank?

    After 2 months of perpetual war... (73 days after these 14 days).

  15. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    Only in the very first two weeks of war, when Pacifica's total technology was dispersed amongst over 900 nations did your alliance lose technology that quickly. Even if every single nation currently in peace mode comes out and fights, it is highly unlikely, at this stage of the conflict, 150,000 technology will be destroyed in just two weeks. All public calculations from Pacificans declaring how dramatic their losses would be from two weeks of fighting have each made the assumption that every single ground, air and missile attack will be successful. Anyone that has had the least bit of experience with the CN battle system would realise that even when you're fighting against the odds, there are plenty of times where you successfully defend yourself and greatly limit damage.

    Its not going to be for only 14 days, as outlined in the post, that would mean 90% efficiency (somewhere it was stated that this is 7 nations still in peace mode), most likely that will not happen.

    Your maths are wrong imo.

    Let's look at it at a 5k infra nation's view.

    (Collection - Taxes) per one day > 3000000

    Every 10 days, you have 30 mil to spent/send as reps. (And that's a minimum, a 5k infra nation earns a LOT more!)

    I took into account that nations with a war chest over 50 million at the END of the 14 days will be able to build back up to 5k infra. And that they will be able to send out 3 million indefinitely.

    50 tech costs 800k (if you have sent all your current tech)

    You can send 15 mil and 250 tech every 10 days. Total cost about 20 mil needed every 10 days if you don't have any tech left.

    It has to be paid by nations over 1,000 tech level. :rolleyes:

    Now, you definitely have some warchest yourself to spend. I know how nations work so they do have all the money needed at the right time.

    You saying that you don't have the money or tech at this moment is irrelevant. As days pass, your nations will collect taxes and therefore, you will have all the money needed to pay the reps.

    Also, you won't have enough slots to pay the reps in one day even if you had all the money and tech today. Just pay the reps, you can do it and you will have enough left.

    Your MoF just has to organise stuff to pay the reps just as planned. Hey, I could help you do it if you ask. I have done it before.

    I don't see where this "your" comes from, since I am not NPO, and also collecting while being nuked daily is not much of a collect, dunno if you know.

    Now, maths.

    300000 tech - 6000 slots

    7 bil - 2334 slots

    It will take 6000 slots to pay all the reps. 2334 slots will be 3 mil + 50 tech.

    180 members to pay it ---> 34 slots per member.

    One nation has 5 aid slots (or 6) - 7 cycles to pay the reps. It is 2-3 months! Why the hell are you whining here? You kept GATO under terms for a whole year!

    Edit: and if your nation DOES receive a beating, your warchest should cover at least the first 2 cycles. And you can regrow a bit in that time.

    Even if there are 90 people left with large enough nations, 4-6 months is not a long time. Besides, the other nations can start regrowing on their own.

    This doesn't take into account that nations over 1,000 tech will have to pay the reps. Also, its not "2 cycles" NPO would have been at war for 11 cycles if they signed the terms yesterday. As of now, who knows?

    the ones who have 1000 infra at the moment...

    7 x 250 tech = 1750

    I'm sure an average NPO member can pay that.

    For the 3 mil packages, I'm sure there will be more than enough members left after the 2 weeks of fighting.

    And 300,000/1750 = 1200 tech cycles, which means 12,000 days. You want NPO to pay reps for 4 years?

    Actually,

    Although I would agree that Karma likely won't change its stance on requiring most of the NPO to exit peace mode first, I do not believe 2 weeks of war is the reason behind the NPO's refusal. From what I can tell in the original thread, NPO is concerned that Karma will use the 90% figure to ensure that the Pacificans exiting peace mode gets beaten up for prolonged periods. And this is something that the NPO should have talked to Karma about. Something could have been worked out or clarified regarding the logisitical difficulties of moving virtually everyone out of peace mode and the conditions under which the timer could have started.

    Aye, that seems to be their main concern.

    My math is here. I invite those interested to read that post.

    :blink: Yours calculates the amount of damage, and the ability to pay reps; mine is to calculate how long the reps would take if signed.

  16. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted

    We will all be responsible if we sign the terms. I am fine with that. We started this war, and we will finish it. Yes the terms will be harsh. But they will be survivable, and NPO will pull through them. I have pushed for that much.

    I'll note something that no one seems to have realized yet. The 300k figure is a maximum, a highball. So is the money. The plan internally within karma was to lower them depending on how much tech damage was done. They are a highball because we have no way of predicting exactly how much damage weeks of war will do.

    I know its not on you, but shouldn't of Karma as a whole have said "Reps to not exceed 300k tech and 7 billion" then?

  18. Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

    in Alliance Announcements (IC)

    Posted

    Have you acknowledged you were wrong? Have you apologized?

    Have you read the original post :awesome:

    Its a better deal than you and the NPO gave to FAN. This way NPO gets terms prior to coming out of PM.

    Technically not so much, its worse than the original terms FAN got, but FAN violated those terms, and then got worse terms. NPO never really violated terms at this point.

    I still can't believe people are trashing Londo over these terms. Londo has been fighting to secure more lenient terms for NPO every step of the way against people some of whom *cough* Xiph *cough* didn't even want to give terms at all.

    Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

    Honestly Londo the llama god is probably one of the only sane people during the whole reps logs (i read 'em). Massive respect to him, he may not be showing himself in the best light at the moment, but most likely because he has been infuriated by people who think they can read the english language and feel NPO is bashing them.

    If you look through the thread you will see most of the Londo bashing doesn't come from NPO.

  21. NPO's Reps - An attempted unbiased View

    in Open World RP

    Posted · Edited by Rajistani

    tl;dr it will take NPO 1.8 years to pay reps if using 100% of slots.

    Sorry need to start a new thread, because there is no doubt that AP thread is about to be locked in my mind.

    Anyways I am attempting to make this as unbiased as possible.

    Reps asked for: 300,000 tech and 7,000,000 CN money (to be paid in tech or money).

    I will be covering the money first, and I will be assuming NPO can hit the 90% war mode mode within 1 day.

    Currently: 63 nations above 5,000 infra in peace mode for the new pacific order.

    We will give 33% of those nations a large war chest. At least a 500,000,000 dollar war chest, which is enough to last the 14 days of war doing nothing, and send out 15 million every 10 days indefinitely.

    I was in the noCB war, defensively, with my previous, quite large, nation. This war was all out everything, i was in a 3 versus 1, a similar situation we can expect all of these "banks" to be in. I spent approximately 15 million everyday. (Why so much? when in a 3 v 1 you are usually at a tech disadvantage and are losing your planes and whatnot, and assuming these guys have massive warchests, they will continue to rebuy so they can do attacks). That includes losses from nukes, etc. The nations in peace mode have never been in war, according to NPO.

    In that sense, the nations in peace mode will lose 15 million * 14 days = 210 million.

    This leaves 21 nations who were in peace mode that can effectively be banks.

    I will double this number to account for the nations that are still in war with exceptionally large warchests. They have been in war for 58 days, plus 14, which means I am giving 21 NPO nations warchests at the start of the war with over 1.73 billion war chests. That is 1.73 billion because of the war costs times 63 plus 65 million, the amount necessary to get back to a "banking level."

    That leaves 42 NPO nations with the ability to send out 15 million every 10 days.

    7000000000 dollars / 3000000 dollars per slot = 2334 slots (rounded up because round down would mean it wasn't fully paid).

    ( 2334 slots / (42 nations * 3 slots each) ) * 10 days per slot cycle = 18.518 = 19 cycles = 190 days = 6.333 monthes for the money payments.

    Note: its 3 slots to allow 2-3 slots per nation for removing people from bill-lock and rebuilding.

    Tech Payments

    Tech losses:

    80 from nukes.

    16 from ground.

    9.6 from CMs.

    Per day it will be (80 nukes + (16 * 6 ground attacks) + (9.6 * 6 CMs)) = 233.6 tech

    233.6 * 14 days = 3270.4 tech per nation.

    Tech can only be paid by nations over 1,000 tech level

    3270.4 + 1000 = Minimum current tech level needed by nations today in order to pay reps (if terms were accepted today instead of rejected)

    NPO has 11 nations above that mark. NINE of which fall into the peace mode calculation above.

    Assuming all 9 of these nations will be able to send out 3 mill + 50t for every slot, and Karma has nations that will accept this, rather than the 300k tech and money being paid separately we have:

    Kingdom of Dark

    11,109.68 - 4270 = 6839 tech

    Citizen

    6,915.83 - 4270 = 2645

    Shada

    6,620.93 - 4270 = 2350

    SetiCrunchers

    5,752.52 - 4270 = 1482

    Itally

    5,716.60 - 4270 = 1446

    YTMND

    5,341.04 - 4270 = 1071

    Aryan Alliance

    5,318.33 - 4270 = 1048

    MrsBehney Nation

    4,920.45 - 4270 = 650

    Nova Roma

    4,852.56 - 4270 = 582

    The Borat Empire

    4,827.87 - 4270 = 557

    Klondike

    4,298.45 - 4270 = 28

    If we add all this together; we get 11 859 tech.

    That is 288 141 short of Karma's reps if NPO sent ALL their tech. Furthermore it would take Kingdom of dark 27.4 (28) cycles to pay all his tech if he sent 250 every 10 days. That is 9.3333 monthes.

    So hypothetically, these nations, and others that are just under the 1,000 mark, would have to buy technology, and then send it off. It would take 50 days for a cycle. (1,000 tech nation buys 100 tech at 3mill/50/50 - 30 days - then sends 50/50 to Karma - 20 days).

    Now you may be saying, why doesn't that nation selling just have the tech sent to Karma directly? It would cut alot of days off. Karmas terms dictate that the tech must be sent by nations over 1,000 technology.

    This remaining 288,141 tech would have to be paid 100 tech at a time in 50 days cycles. Assuming these nations have enough money to buy tech, 3 are ZIed on this list).

    At that rate it would take 290 aid slots (288141tech / 100 tech). Assuming each nation can carry 5 forever, those 290 aid slots can be split by the 11 above nations, once they reach their 1,000 tech mark. It would take them 5.272727 50 day cycles. So 300 days to have it fully paid, but some will only go for 50 days.

    This is in addition to the 9.333 months for the first 11.8k tech and in addition to the 6.333 monthes of cash (since in 50 day cycles, a nation cannot send 3mill +50tech every 10 days).

    This brings us to a grand total of 1.8 years of this 700 man alliance paying reps (adjusted to account that 6 mill + 100 tech can be sent every 50 day cycle).

    Note: That this does not account for nations rebuilding past the 1,000 tech level mark and then paying towards the reps. but it does not count for nations that will leave NPO rather than spending a year and a half paying reps, and it assumes that these nations will be provided slots by karma without "all slots in use" and that these nations will not be sending money to their own alliance in the TECH scenario.

    Also it counts that these nations will have 100% efficiency, and that NPO will get into war mode in 14 days, which is most likely not the case.

    Note: I apologize for any mistakes, I am sleepy.

  24. Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

    in Alliance Announcements (IC)

    Posted

    Sorry for the multiple posts, but i had too many quotes.

    Johnathan Brookbank.... Okay... How is that EZI?

    He rerolled under the same name?

    Just quoted to prove an earliar point of mine.

    The wars with FAN and Vox may be over, but that doesn't mean they never happened. The only reason those two haven't been added to the disbanded list is because they managed to hang on long enough.

    Agreed that it will be remembered, but also agreed that they managed to hang on, other alliances like ONOS or TDSM8 or whomever did not.

  25. Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

    in Alliance Announcements (IC)

    Posted

    Reps not payable: Math done by others already in this thread, also NPO made its' own decision not get come out of hippy mode couple of weeks back, could have shortened the war and losses

    None of the math, including NPOs has been correct.

    Attacked by NPO after disarming for peace terms: FAN

    There are plenty of screen shots of those offending. FAN chose to defend those that were not complying to peace terms.

    Unending war carried out by NPO: FAN

    FAN said that they would only accept white peace. NPO (and friends, I should add), didn't give them white peace, does that make them the bad guys? Shall I point you towards the original post of this thread?

    Disbanded due to NPO: NAAC, LUE, GOONS, Genmay etc

    You can't exactly force an alliance to disband, but I do see your point.

    Nations E/PZIed by NPO: Multiple first person accounts

    No perma-ZIs have been proved (yet, I should add). With the exception of Johnathan Brodbank (spelling error?), but he rerolled under the same name...

    High reps demanded by NPO: Multiple quotes in the thread so far

    I do not ever recall the reps by NPO having to be paid for by nations over a certain size limit.

    Bank nations forced out of peace mode by NPO: GATO

    Agreed; GATOs nations may not have necessarily been banks, but again I see what you mean.

    I think the above covers just about every possible outcome of the war, whichever scenario plays out, Karma certainly got NPO real good.

    And vice versa, it was not too long ago when reps were representative of the damage caused by the losing alliance. So by this amount of reps, one could guess that NPO dealt a lot of damage on their way down.

    What?

    Ivan Moldavi commited most of these "crimes" that NPO is currently being blamed for. He is on Karma's side now, leader of one of the Karma alliances, if you take the loose definition of Karma as the alliances that declared on NPO and its allies.

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