animea90
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Posts posted by animea90
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There's actually a few topics going around that revolve around that.
I haven't posted in any of them but I heard they were ok.
There's this one: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t=0&start=0
That was the only one I saw even closely related and it was about recent BC shennanigans and not really about the posted logs.
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I have not seen anyone post a topic about it and I think it deserves one. In my opinion, mhawk was doing allot of bullying. He threw out several claims and refused to provide evidence or even explain how they got this information. Most likely, the evidence against them would have come from spying, but that would make them hypocrites.
For reference: http://tattler.assimilator.org/?p=124
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The Taxman Cometh
IV. For all in-character actions taken against The New Pacific Order, reasonable terms in relation to the crime will be presented to the offending ruler. These terms shall be designed to uphold the highest values and traditions of the Order and under no condition will mandate or indirectly attempt to force the destruction of a ruler. (Compliments of TPF; I couldn't have said it better)
tl:dr Starfox is hereby released from ZI; GATO is free and Jarheads are given white peace.
So, are you actually going to present FAN with reasonable terms then? It would go a long way towards proving your commitment to this policy if you were to apologize for your actions during the last peace terms for FAN.
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I base my alliance affiliation on that it is beneficial to my survival. My alliance is my dominator and I am its subordinate, and through this relationship both of us avoid death (I have outlined these thoughts in two essays, so those of you who can read can readily be familiar with my theory on the subject).
1. If your main interest is survival then why not stay in peace mode? That is the best way to insure you don't lose people.
2. Or if you are concerned about growth, why join an alliance which is disliked as much as GGA? You would be in a much better survival position in an alliance not suffering from stagnation and instability. Plus, you are exposed to terrorist agents and any potential war GGA could get involved in. Red team unaligned or GPA would be the safest possible positions(especially if your not doing any posting on the forums, see three)
3. If your main interest really is survival, then posting on the forums would be counterproductive. Posting on the forums(Particularly contradicting others) simply exposes you to other people who may dislike you and as such could threaten(however unlikely) your survival. It has happened before. The most effective way to simply grow your nation would be to not post outside of tech deal and trade circle threads. Presenting your ideas to people puts you at risk of being harmed for them.
In essence, if AA is based on benefit to your survival, the most beneficial position would be an alliance like GPA with historically virtually no combat. Your current AA exposes you to both terrorist agents who may attack(Vox, Fan) and posting on the forums further puts your survival at risk.
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Did you volt out the door whenever you saw her? Did the relationship have any potential? I'm so amped to hear your story!
I C WUT U DID THAR
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A MESSAGE TO ALL TINY NATIONS: NEMESIS IS RECRUITING, JOIN AND ENTER PEACE MODE TODAY
I guess I could join.
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It also lacks a very handsome man, to boot.
In before 5 people make jokes about this being them, oh wait
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Yeah, you totally caught us on that one. NPO is teh ebil and they sent all their eye candy to us to keep us complacent (baka, Mari, Cortath, SDRD...well...not so much SDRD
). They knew we were a sucker for a pretty face! Oh you clever Pacificans 
And NPO probably wants to end the viceroyship at some point because the position is cursed. We've already gone through like two viceroys B)
On a more serious note, I think we as an alliance know NPO better than most people do. We've had a rather interesting relationship. Despite our long history, many realize that it is in the past. The dynamics of the relationship have, quite obviously, changed. Those responsible for rebuilding our alliance don't want to be here forever. They'd rather be devoting their time and effort to NPO. The length of their stay will be wholly determined by the resolve of GATOans. Personally, I'd say we're damn close.
-Kev
I am not saying they are evil, just that they do not act without reason. Yes, keeping you "complacent" is probably why the viceroys were sent(I would use the word docile or lacking the strength to be a threat.) If they were really interested in strengthening your alliance, they would allow you to have outside treaties or at least recieve aid with other alliances. Tech deals would have made GATO strength increase ALLOT faster.
The only real response you provided to my arguments was that "Those responsible for rebulding our alliance don't want to be here forever they'd rather be devoting their time and effort to NPO.",
but by keeping GATO docile, they help keep a potential threat from forming. If they were really interested in rebuilding your alliance, they are doing a HORRIBLE job at it. Not allowing you to, as I said before, recieve foreign aid or create treaties are extremely counterproductive to building an alliance.
Note: I am not saying GATO has not improved since the war, just that they could have done it with the NPO and if NPO was just interested in restructuring GATO internally it would not have taken 9 months.
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I would have a fortune if I received money for every post that ended in that sentence. Luckily I don't care, my alliance affiliation is as much a necessity as your false "principles".
At least I have no illusions to prevent me from fulfilling my duties as an ally.
Then what do you base your alliance affiliation on?
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The NPO and GATO officials have worked together to make sure that the Viceroyship can be concluded in the future. Obviously, efforts have been made on both sides.
You say "on both sides". What incentive does NPO have to end the viceroyship? If GATO is amiable enough to it and you don't want foreign entities getting involved, why would NPO give up control over GATO?
From what I have known of the NPO, they are a pretty smart bunch and don't do things without a reason.
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We grow in cycles, beat down sanction, rinse and repeat. Our growth has always been better than most alliances, look at how fast we were sanctioned after the last time we were beat down. Within a mere few months of our terms ending we were back up there.
At the current rate, we will still be under the terms by the time we are sanctioned
As for member count, in the state of CN it is hardly surprising to see an alliance drop in numbers. We are still getting recruits daily but the majority of people quitting CN out of pure boredom it is expected to see alliances stay low on membership count.
We love you too.
Free speech is merely pixels too. We still have our democratic society in place. Infact it was our members who approved of the Viceroy and before you say it, yes we had a choice. We are currently voting on our charter within the walls of Camp GATO, and this process is without outside intervention. GATO members are allowed to freely post on the forums as far as the NPO are concerned. We never spoke out much in CN politics and even in the good ole days when GOONS and lolzcar would try and call us out, we would remain silent.
Just because you are looking through a window at something, it dose not mean that you are getting the full picture.
1. So Ragashindo was lying when he said
"in GATO's case the lack of free speech may have something to do with it. When I left GATO a few months ago its members were not allowed to start topics without high ranking government approval. There are a handful of GATO member who fit that description and could authorize a topic's posting, but they still have to answer to their NPO overlords.
2. "free speech is merely pixels too"
No, free speech is the exchange of IDEAS, not pixels. While we may type of these ideas on the forum, the ideas themselves are not composed of pixels. Infrastructure really is nothing more than bits of computer coding.
3. "we had a choice"
By choice do you mean there was an option other than Fan style eternal ZI? Did NPO offer a white peace without a viceroy, but GATO felt it was in there best interest to have NPO rulers?
Edit: By that logic, slaves have a choice. So did the Indians when they were force marched off their land in the Trail of Tears. They could have easily chosen to be killed.
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I'd have to agree with the sentiment that both sides of the arguments have well though-out points, and that quick one-liners aren't going to encompass either side. It's a complicated issue, from the issue of the CB to the length of the Viceroyship. And that's why, for the most part, OWF threads aren't an effective way to affect the issue one way or the other.
Then where exactly is the right place to sort out the issue? private channels? That has done nothing to further the issue over the last 6 months
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snip
So you judge your alliances worth based on how many pixels you have? Are things like free speech irrelevant to the democratic society of GATO? I have heard nobody rebut the earlier claim from an ex-GATO member that the average members of GATO were/are not allowed to post threads on the forums without NPO permission.
I find it sad that GATO has seemed to have abandoned the democratic principles it was founded on.
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I think GATO has spoken its mind and everyone would like to see a stable GATO..one that is not threat to itself and others..and return as a force..that can contribute as a veteran to the new found Brown momentum..that can sustain and not get in trouble again and again and again. I do hope that the terms end when it does most good for all the parties involved.
Please explain to me how exactly GATO is a threat to itself?
P.S. I have been arguing against GATOs indefinate imprisonment for quite some time. In fact, I put myself on EZI lists because I dislike how things are current handled in CN.
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I don't recall ever warmongering, hounding any nations or oppressing anyone. Just being in Valhalla doesn't mean I do or have done any of those things. yet the only argument I ever hear is "Oh, you're in Valhalla so you can't have an opinion other than what we think Valhallans should have."
Being in Valhalla means you at least passively support the policies of your alliance. You may not be directly inacting any policies, but you are helping provide the strength behind them.
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From what i read in the VE thread, people were saying the same thing for the most part. Unless i remember it wrong, wasnt the only thing they were being condemned for was prematurely canceling one of the treaties?
If you have not noticed, NPO seems to be under radio silence. There is nobody to critisize them.
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Unless you were a member of CSN, IAA, or USN or one of the few volunteers who tried to help us, you have absolutely no right to use GATO as a pariah for some good ol' NPO PR bashing. Not one of you stood up to object to our warfare then, and now that their may be a rift forming against NPO you speak up? It's a little ridiculous to see people caring about us all of a sudden when many of you in this thread participated in the war against us or our allies. I like the public support, but don't use us to support some cause we want no part of. Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.
Also
<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002
There is a difference between being okay with GATO being killed in a war and okay with GATO being imprisoned indefinately. I would feel no differently if it were any other alliance in GATO's position. I am more concerned with an atmosphere where losing war means not only the destruction of your nation, but the indefinate subjugation of your community. I believe many others feel the same way.
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I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there.
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No, the basic argument you're encountering, is let your old grudges go and stop forcing players out of the game, this type of mentally is making your alliance look bad, and just lost you a treaty partner not even 4 hours ago, so I'd think the whole "we don't care about public opinion" party line, even if not stated publicly, has seemed to be changing, looking over at Mr. Brookbank at least.
Well guys its time to pack up and go home, Mogar has won the thread.
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You can hold your beliefs. But I'd have to believe that GATO's elected representative most closely in contact with the Viceroy team would be the more informed of us two.
If the Viceroy team is such jerks that they will force their position onto GATO for longer just because of a thread by someone not a part of GATO, then they are not nearly as friendly and non invasive as some GATO members have been saying. If what you say is true, imagine what would happen if a GATO member started publically requesting freedom.
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Or we realized a while ago that the best way to get things done in Cybernations is, you guessed it, private channels. For the win.
That was a very funny day.
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Ultimately, as I said the last time a thread like this came up: GATO is making great progress right now. The Viceroyship is not stunting growth, but instead has helped us make our systems more effecient. More importantly, these kinds of threads will not help the Viceroyship end. That is an arrangement between GATO and the Viceroy staff. If anything, when they see threads like this, they'll continue the Viceroyship past when they would have ended it, so that they don't look like they're giving in to the pressure of the OWF.
So while we appreciate some of the good sentiments in this thread, and while we thank our supporters, those posters trying to use us as a rallying point or as a piece of propoganda are truly only helping themselves. But who's surprised by that?
If community opinion plays 0 part of NPO diplomacy then your correct. However, having the support of an allies(and your own) membership does actually matter. And if threads like this make people question why GATO is still being held, they serve their purpose.
Furthermore, I think it would be extremely immature of the NPO to make an entire community suffer because some people want them released. Its like the 8 year old who continues to play a video game just because other people want a turn. Do you really think NPO is that immature?
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GGA already has one, haven't you heard?
Furthermore, I stand by what I have said. GATO agreed to submit to the suzerainty of the New Pacific Order. No one has any reason to complain.
When the alternative is FAN style EZI I dont know how much you can consider it a choice
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Let's take the holocaust and Hitler's general regime as an example. Such an event occured, the human race learnt from it, oppressed an destroyed it, and nothing like it never occured again. With this scenario, NPO needs to understand they deserve to play freely, let them go, and in future be more reasonable with war terms of surrender, etc.
While I would like to see GATO free and support your cause, this statement betrays a major lack of knowledge of history. We have had multiple genocides since the time of Hitler. Some(like Po Pots Camer(SP?) Rouge) have arguable been much worse and were completely unpunished.
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A number of screenshots of our forums ended up on a foreign forum. The person who posted them turned out to be Hilltopper. To show you the evidence would involve showing a screenshot of our own forums, of the forum they were posted on, and of the identifying information of Hilltopper. We're not likely to put any of those three things in a public area.
Okay, thanks. I retract my previous statements then.
). They knew we were a sucker for a pretty face! Oh you clever Pacificans 
He Said Wha?!
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
Come on guys, we all know your just Vox Puppets.
Dance puppets dance.