Mandystalin
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Posts posted by Mandystalin
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4 hours ago, mmansfield68 said:
So what and who did you declare on? Also, first!
Check the bold letters in the announcement...
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Oculus alliance leader #1 - "hey let's roll someone"
Oculus alliance leader #2 - "how about TTK"
Other Oculus alliance leaders - "yeah, sure"
Oculus alliance leader #1 - "ok I have made up a bull CB based on the flimsiest of not really evidence"
Oculus alliance leader #2 - "good, that will piss them off and give our OWF trolls something to feed on"
Oculus alliance leader #1 - "hey let's roll someone"
Oculus alliance leader #2 - "how about NADC"
Other Oculus alliance leaders - "yeah, sure"
Oculus alliance leader #1 - "ok I have made up a bull CB based on the flimsiest of not really evidence"
Oculus alliance leader #2 - "good, that will piss them off and give our OWF trolls something to feed on"
I am spotting a pattern. I wonder who is next?
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37 minutes ago, Chunky Monkey said:
Feel free to post your proof that this was a real thing anytime now. We're all anxious to see it.
I warn you, there will be 15 pages of gunk to wade through before you finally get to an implicit admission that actually they just did it because they could, rather than because there was any real issue there.
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9 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:
I think you need to read the post again in its entirety. My assertion is this simple: Noctis is nothing to do with anything, to do with anything or anyone remotely, by marriage or birth, with the CB for this war. You have latched onto his mad ramblings like he is somehow operating with any more information than you are. His insane posturing has merely confused you. Return to the state of shock and disbelief you were in 15 pages or so ago because nothing has changed since then. You have no more or less information and nor will you in the foreseeable future. Noctis and his sanction wars and so forth are completely off-base, red-herrings and a futile path of inquiry.
Mate, it is really a bad idea to give advice if you don't follow it yourself. My post and my point had nothing whatsoever to do with Noctis and his spurious claims.
I just realised that we have some common ground... careful or we might become friends
2 hours ago, DeathAdder said:It's far more amusing for all of Oculus to watch TTK burn, squirm, and whine for evidence in page after page than to actually give it to them.
Sigh. We all know that no actual evidence of TTK plotting is ever going to be published. And despite all the attempts to make it look like that is because U iz trollz lolz, both sides in the conflict know that it is simply because such evidence does not exist. Plain & simple. Why do I keep returning to that point? Again, it is simple. As part of this war you are attempting to impugn our good name, and I'm attempting to prevent that - after all, silence on the issue would certainly be construed as implicit acknowledgement.
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8 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:
You have received all the information you were entitled to receive. If you feel aggrieved by what you have received because you erroneously perceive your entitlement to anything is higher than it is, then feel free to complain loudly to anyone who will listen. Given that appears to be only Noctis, who is quite possibly insane, one could speculate that you are pretty much talking to yourselves.
You, of course, have other options, but it seems accepting a completely ''unprovoked'' and ''unjustifiable' attack on your alliance stand without response, other than the gnashing of teeth and waving of arms, feels appropriate to you. If only you had friends and allies who could relieve some of the burden. Imagine their outrage upon finding an ally attacked under such circumstances, why it might even trigger that pesky Defense clause in those fancy treaties you all hold. Maybe martyrdom suits the Knights, but I don't think the poets will sing tales of your alliance when this crusade is finished.
Actually they might - they certainly did after the last war, which has been postulated as a possible reason for this war. And we see no reason to ask anybody else to be curbstomped too, it is kinda counter-productive to activate treaties when the enemy is so numerous that any counter will quickly become bogged down in perma-anarchy. But you know that
Could it possibly be that you are/were hoping we'd call for help so lots of pesky little AA's could be rolled at once? This has also been postulated as a possible reason for this war.
Overall your post simply returns to my point about the couple arguing. 'Mad @ U / Why / Ain't telling' (except with longer words)
Oh, except you did, but wouldn't share publicly. And oddly it has been rather quiet since it went public, except for Noctis and Junka spamming the hell out of our general Discord
And the 'evidence' simply returns to my point about you chaps wanting a war and leaping at the first possible excuse, no matter how slight.
Interestingly the new line now seems to be 'oh, that isn't the evidence. Oh no. We, uh, we shared that with you as a joke'
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46 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:
You're implying Gh0s7 posted those screenshots based on pure speculation they are they are the evidence, without knowing the contents of whatever screenshots you were shown? Seems like a long shot he would suddenly post what looks likes him plotting against some random alliances without you guys sharing the contents of whatever screenshots they sent you.
I guess we'll see if anything changes from you guys posting some random screenshots. However them sending you some seemingly unrelated screenshots doesn't mean that is their evidence, lol.
Sigh. Nice try but poor logic
1) Not implying anything of the sort. Once we were sent the shots of Gh0s7's convo guess who we talked to...
2) Not us that posted them. It is an important distinction.
3) Yes of course, they sent them for the lulz. Silly me. And there is yet more mythical evidence. Also, ain't it a shame that sarcasm is so hard to show in writing
But I do owe you one apology, I did not check on the membership of your alliance. My bad, I will be more accurate in future
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On Saturday, August 05, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Mandystalin said:
I'll pop back if anything worthwhile happens...
And it has. Screenshots of the Discord conversation that are the reason behind the war have been posted in TTK's general (public) Discord, by their author. A censored copy of this convo was sent to us by Oculus as explanation for their attack, and that formed the rock of my 'you have no evidence TTK is plotting' argument. We were asked not to share the screenshots to prevent speculation as to their source, which we honoured, but that cat is out of the bag now.
So please, go take a look and make up your own minds. ☺
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Page 15, as promised.
The discussion appears to have tailed off, as it does.
Noctis is back with his 'TTK sanctioned me' claim, so I'll just re-post my original response
On 31/07/2017 at 6:22 AM, Mandystalin said:If you cut out all the supposition (and unless I'm reading it wrong you seem to think Blackatron is our leader?) the only thing of substance is that Gh0s7 requested sanctions against you on behalf of an entirely different alliance (ie: not TTK). Now I really don't want to touch your history with a barge-pole, I'm sure it can rattle on for days about who did which to why. But Alliance A wanting 1-man micro B sanctioned equals Alliance C's crime? Sigh.
Oh there was this (expected) response
On 01/08/2017 at 5:47 PM, DeathAdder said:You can wait until page 99, Oculus still isn't going to give you a further explanation than what its various .gov members have already given you.
The fact you actually expect us to justify ourselves to you on this shell of a planet is hilarious beyond measure. We don't owe you an explanation, and the only thing you can do about it is continue to cry over the fact. Suck it up buttercup. If you're both all about casualties, less whining, more burning for your Alliance.
The only reason I quote it is that it made me realise what this whole discussion reminded me of. You know those ridiculous arguments some couples have?
"I'm mad at you"
"Why?"
"Well if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you"
On 03/08/2017 at 3:58 AM, Auctor said:I fail to see anything hostile RIA's done in this and am not sure why this conspiracy theory that they're at the bottom of it has developed. Does someone have proof of their involvement?
Oh my word, the irony...
(my bolding)
I know I've been giving specific page numbers for my return, but there seems no point in this because the discussion is going nowhere. Even I'm getting fed up of me popping in every few pages and pointing out that nothing has changed. I'll pop back if anything worthwhile happens...
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Page 12, so here I am
Amazingly nothing appears to have changed.
There is still no actual detail of what we were supposedly doing, or even which set of people were supposedly doing it. Though I am amused at the 'oh you should confess' type responses. That's just a pure fishing expedition
There is still no attempt to justify with all this evidence you claim to have either. Again, if you had any you'd be rubbing our faces in it.
All in all I'm sticking with my earlier summation - y'all wanted to stomp us for whatever reason of your own and tacked on a reason. Just a shame you didn't spend more time in getting your story straight first.
In all honesty, much as M3D's declaration was pure trolling, at least it was honest and consistent.
I will assume that the standard responses will be forthcoming, and I will see you all again at page 15.
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Oh I see... it is a matter of faith.
Seeking answers apparently doesn't extend to actually talking with the people you believe to be at fault, so pardon me if I am hesitant to accept your assurances.
Edit - I replied in haste, never a good idea. Shocked disbelief is actually a pretty good description of my initial reaction. It is traditionally the reaction of those falsely accused of a crime. Particularly one whose exact nature is not only withheld but is apparently not even agreed upon. I prefer to think of my subsequent posts as seeking the truth, but I suppose opinions can differ. And actually the fact that my debating style is being attacked rather than my argument is a good indicator that I am hitting home. Any moment now some senior Oculus member will post that I'm a hater, and then I'll know I've upset their applecart
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14 minutes ago, Auctor said:
Of course we never alerted TTK government that TTK government is embroiled in a conspiracy to attack us before we took action. That would be ludicrous - your crummy opsec does not necessitate all others having abysmal opsec. It's your responsibility to keep your own house in order and not ours to go around soliciting lies from your less active government members that may or may not be aware of what the others are doing.
So I see you've looked me up now
I also must bow to your knowledge of the relative activity levels of our gov members. Assuredly it is greater than the knowledge of a TTK gov member.
But sarcasm aside. What lies have I told? Find one.
Bottom Line, if you actually had proof - the proof others have claimed is plentiful and obvious - you would be shouting it from the rooftops. Look everybody, look what we found, look how hypocritical those holier-than-thou Templars are, etc etc. Rubbing our faces in it all the way.
Bottom Bottom Line (if that makes any sense
), you still haven't actually told anybody what it is you claim we did. And we're back to my initial textwall and the circular argument continues. See you on page 12
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49 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
There is plenty of material out there
There is indeed plenty of material out there on the membership of TTK gov. Which is why I am surprised.
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13 minutes ago, Auctor said:
This idea that we're supposed to cough up sources inside an ongoing conspiracy and do your own internal policing for you is silly as all get out. This idea that any of us owes any of you anything is foolishness.
Oh my word...
"We're going to war with you, but you have to work out why"
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2 minutes ago, Auctor said:
If you're not in communication with your government and how it's conducting its affairs, that's hardly on us. They've been more than forthcoming with more than a few others about their intentions.
Maybe you need to do your homework on TTK and its government
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12 hours ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:
Assuming you really don't know what Blackatron and Gh0s7 were up to, here is my understanding of the minimum you guys are guilty of...
If you cut out all the supposition (and unless I'm reading it wrong you seem to think Blackatron is our leader?) the only thing of substance is that Gh0s7 requested sanctions against you on behalf of an entirely different alliance (ie: not TTK). Now I really don't want to touch your history with a barge-pole, I'm sure it can rattle on for days about who did which to why. But Alliance A wanting 1-man micro B sanctioned equals Alliance C's crime? Sigh.
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12 hours ago, The Big Bad said:
So you are going with the, we are to stupid to have done this defense? Gotcha. Not the way I would have played it but, you all do you. Out of curiosity what CB were you going to use if we sat around and did nothing and let you come knocking first? Spying? Plotting? Past actions? Or none at all as is so common now?
I am going with nothing - I am simply following good debating technique by not getting sucked into a different argument and thereby losing sight of my point.
And my point remains the utter absurdity that all of Oculus can go to war against my beloved little alliance... and yet they can't agree why.
Until this issue is addressed, there is just no point in carrying on the debate
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1 hour ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:
Why your leader would knowingly harbor someone as he would plot against Oculus & their allies doesn't make sense to me at all, so the most logical explanation is your leadership lacks logic. I think those who portrayed him as a duel member so he could represent himself as part of their alliances while scheming are also guilty, but your leadership knowingly harboring him on the AA as he was doing this stuff made your alliance's guilt the most obvious. Perhaps Gh0s7 considered your alliance more expendable than the others & realized your leaders lacked any common sense. Or maybe your leader wanted another round with Oculus, so they didn't care that his actions would make you guys a target.
Blackatron replied with "infra>friends it seems" in response to me declaring on 2 nuclear nations within my range instead of selling all my infrastructure to fight only non-nuclear nations when defending a lower tier member who got attacked. My method secured a surrender within a few days, since I did not care about losing infrastructure from nukes in defense of my alliance & was much more effective than pointlessly selling my infra. So even public comments like that by Blackatron I think clearly shows he lacks any common sense. So you can explain how illogical your alliance leadership is all you want, but that doesn't make a difference in what occurred.
1 hour ago, The Big Bad said:Let us just use a little common sense here. TTK knows it has enemies, TTK knows it wants renege. If TTK was not plotting they are complete and total morons. Is TTK claiming they are morons? You, plotted as most competent alliances would. This time you just got caught. So stop playing the victim and acting like you are just to stupid to have been plotting. Man up, own it and do a better job next time.
And here we return to my post - are we being rolled for simply harbouring somebody who was (supposedly) plotting, or are we being rolled for (supposedly) plotting ourselves? It is a bad sign when you can't even state categorically what false reason you are using to attack us
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17 minutes ago, darkfox said:
If people think our CB isn't strong enough then feel free to do something about it.
I am. I'm highlighting the problem and I'm fighting back against my attackers. What more can I do? Plot?
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I prefer "They interrupted my holiday and my sled for no good reason... war"
But seriously. TTK is accused of plotting "a future Crusade against the Church of Oculus" and of "dispatching agents to other alliances to intercede on their behalf"
I actually started typing out a big reply logically explaining why this would be an illogical course of action for TTK, but then I wondered why I was a) insulting the OWF's collective intelligence and b) wasting my breath/pixels. We all know that the CB is irrelevant and made up. Tellingly, despite an impressive sticking to the party line of 'U iz plotterz' by the Oculus member nations, the story behind it wobbles about with every argument - here and elsewhere. Was it because Gh0s7 was a member? Was it because we (supposedly) knew what he was (supposedly) doing and didn't stop it? Was it because we (supposedly) knew what he was (supposedly) doing and (supposedly) supported/encouraged it? Was it because we (supposedly) instigated whatever it was he was (supposedly) doing? Was it because TTK itself is (supposedly) plotting some anti-Oc nastiness? There is no clear party line on the CB, there is no clarity offered when requested, evidence is claimed but not forthcoming... need I even point out that TTK was never approached by anybody to explain itself. The inescapable conclusion? They were looking for a fight. The only worthwhile question IMO is why. Maybe they were trying to restart the war that just finished. Maybe they were trying to punish TTK for its part in that war. maybe they are making a point about what happens when somebody stands up to the Oc-bloc. Maybe they were worried that we had attained some sort of figurehead prominence after the last war and wanted to stamp on that. Only Oculus' leaders know, and they aren't telling.
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So let us get this straight...
Oculus went to war with TTK because (based on a mask on Discord) they mistakenly believed that a player who they believed was working against them was a member of (or at least being aided and abetted by) TTK.
Well then it is all good. Just an unfortunate mistake. We will be happy with a simple apology and maybe some reparations for damages done.
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11 hours ago, The Warrior said:
Following their defeat in the Maroon War Crusade and receiving lenient terms,
Sorry, what?
QuoteThe Templar Knights sought not for peace, but instead the start of a new Crusade.
Sorry, what?
Y'all need to do better than that. Your intel is more sexed-up than Bush/Blairs before Iraq.
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Wait, we signed something?
I thought we were just spending the weekend in the woods running with the pack...
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6 hours ago, DeathAdder said:
You want my opinion? There would've been a war about something.
...you're both pretty guilty for the War because you didn't work hard enough to solve it diplomatically...
As to the first, yeah probably. NG have always had a thing for us. Three times now they have engineered a war with us, three times we have done more damage than we took (overall the 'conflict won' score is currently at one-all, due to our front often being a smaller part in wider conflicts).
As to the second, well the first we knew there was a problem was when they cancelled OBHF. They have yet to actually inform us what any of the alledged grievences actually were. The topic on it in here, if you can be bothered to read it (I wouldn't blame you if you can't be bothered
) contains lots of detail about the diplomatic efforts on our side. I refer you back to the first point... they wanted a war because they wanted a war, not because we didn't talk to them enough
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OMG, an active NGer
Hey kerschbs, nice to see you.
Could it possibly be that you are/were hoping we'd call for help so lots of pesky little AA's could be rolled at once? This has also been postulated as a possible reason for this war.
Disposal of Caustic Elements and Hazardous Materials
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
I'm loving the irony...
In other news, ain't it depressing how the OWF doesn't change. Everyone still fighting the same verbal battles since Bob's creation