Kewlleo
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Posts posted by Kewlleo
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No not this again.
How many times will we have go through these spam fights add nausea, or listen to some blow hard wanna be a crusader touting the justice of his cause, before we all just come to the realization that in fact there is no such thing as cultural or societal ethics in this world anymore, and I do mean that in the broadest sense of the word. And while ethics and values will always exist on a personal level, you will not find them in the culture at large, so you might as well save your breath with railing accusations and rampant appeals "To Our Hearts" because its quite clear we really don't have one, at least not in the combined sense. What we do have is a sense of politics and self interest. Thats our sole cultural heart, and by it we guide our every move. Even those that would make a cry for the "good of our world" do so only in the interest of furthering their own positions, with those they oppose of course defending theirs, and any true merit of the cry falling on deaf ears, because we do not have ears to hear ethically speaking.
With this in mind, If you wanna change the world I would suggest you do so by making those involved understand why it is in their best interest to do so, and in the meantime just keep your personal ethics to yourself, which of course is the only place they will find merit. -
I'd have to say CmdrChobo
A man loved, respected, and even trusted by virtually anyone that knew ever knew him, be they friend or foe. -
It is said that the criminal always returns to the scene of the crime, for what its worth welcome back chaotic one.
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Well speaking for myself.
I don't assume a character for games sake, because I have character already.
So I am basically the same here as I am in real life.
And therefore the truth is, if I tell you something here, I seriously mean it. -
When the same people that you heard whining and complaining for months on end, because there was no war,
Are now heard whimpering and crying because theres is no peace. -
This war can still go either way, yes TOP and IRONS still in over their heads, but more happened or rather didn't happen (that still probably will) yesterday than anyone here knowns about. Besides if you look at the number of NpO in peace mode, I do believe that they are still considering getting in this thing again as well.
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TOP & IRON entered in defence of the NpO and somehow in the confusion the message that the NpO had reached a peace settlement did not reach them until they declared.
Do not attribute to malevolence that which can be explained by other means.
When it looks like it, feels like it, tastes like it, you call it what it is.
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This was a trap from the start. The whole intent was to bait the situation long enough to get TOP and IRON out on limb, and fully declared. Now that thats happened, the rest of the wars will get white peace for the most part (except those who are particularly unloved) , so C&G and quite possibly super friends to can focus and take them down. They were only able to do this though, because they knew that TOP would wanna play the chess game behinds the scenes, without really committing. They also figured that by presenting a C&G in conflict and disarray due to endless treaty conflicts, and difference of opinion. That it would probably prove to be to tantalizing a target for them to pass up. So they bit, only to find out that what they bit into, wasn't really what they thought it was at all. Now they are pretty much isolated, most of the help they might get, will either be conflicted by conditions for peace or to tired from fighting already, and they are pretty much hung out to dry.
Were they they wrong for striking, morally speaking yes. Do they deserve to get taken down, probably as much as i hate to say it. They lived by the sword, and shall now die by it.
A game well played, but thats the problem isn't it, its all play now, there is no real meaning and purpose anymore, no valid CB'S or crusades to fight, no good or evil to oppose.
Back and forth it goes one faction takes power from the supposed evil we face, only to be removed by the next when they have allegedly gone to far, and none being better than the one's they purportedly save us from.
Just games, the people playing, and the people playing us all.
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Well I guess this proves it, you cant have a decent war anymore.
Everybody's to busy playing chess and head games.
I could go into a lengthly post about how messed up this is in so many many ways.
Not the least of which is the utter lack communication regarding it, that has left so many people in harms way, while you proclaim "Um Just Kidding".
I said and thought from the start that this had to be the stupidest war, and reason for one I even seen.
In one corner we got arrogant brats, whose whole resolve rests of the fact that they are to arrogant to even admit when they were wrong.
In the other we got a pompous self righteousness. That while well meant, is so full of it self that it cannot see nor takes any consideration for the people that will be harmed in the process.
\M/ I understand, but NpO you actually know better.
In the end I'm glad to see that the entire world will not be tearing itself to shreds, for stupidities sake.
But as for myself I wouldn't shed a tear if every alliance in the world that just declared, now proceeds to declare on you both.
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January of 2006
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It's official. This war had the stamina of an 80 year old man with erectile dysfunction.
Nah I think of it more as a "Cat Fight", maximum posturing for minimal fighting. I guess in the end we were dealing with a lot of "MEOWS".
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Bringing over 6 times the NS of the alliance Athens launched a sneak attack against and hounding other allies begging them to get in on the sneak attack shows just how scared Londo and Athens really were.
Actually someone told me that Londo was on vacation when this all went down, so I don't know how much he had to do with this at all. And for the record I believe Athens is doing this on MK'S behest, and already had C&G backing before they went in,. else they wouldn't have been stupid enough to start this in the first place. In the end this ain't even about TPF, but rather about C&G and Super friends, wanting a piece of Citadel and IRON.
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You're assuming this is going to escalate.
Oh it is.
I just hope it don't turn out to be a cat fight.
With a week worth of posturing for two days worth of scrapping.
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Just wanted to take a few moments, given my once prestigious position, to point a few things out.
One: If you call the people assailing TPF "Karma", that makes you folks the "Hegemony." This is a fact, because Karma was a wartime coalition that existed to oppose the Hegemony and ceased to exist afterwards, just as the CoaLUEtion fought the NPO and ~ fought the Unjust Highway. Coalitions don't magically reform (note: the alliances you're calling Karma did not comprise the entirety of Karma), and as they're not really de jure entities in the first place they don't really magically reappear anyway to suit your PR needs. But, on that note...
Two: If the crux of your argument (and trust me, most of you *are* pushing this train of thought) is that Karma is as bad, if not worse, than the Hegemony, then you're certainly acknowledging that the Hegemony was bad. However, as per the previous point, you're identifying yourselves as the Hegemony (i.e. the forces that Karma existed to oppose and ceased to exist once defeating). Which means that any time you take a moment to trash on Karma being evil, you're really just trashing on yourselves by transitivity. It's really painful to watch, so please stop.
Three: The amount of crap the allies of TPF have gotten is because nearly 3 full days have elapsed without a peep from any of them. There's a certain expectation of promptness with respect to the honoring of treaties on Planet Bob, and when it takes you three full ****ing days to get yourselves together it's kind of embarrassing. Even if you go on to win, it's still pretty embarrassing. The fact that you failed to address anything, even whether you were analyzing the CB and debating whether to support TPF (or, as the case may or may not be, deciding whether to opportunistically take a shot at various people and/or alleviate boredom), it might not have hurt to have said something. Not a CoC-style cancellation, mind you, but something. What you shouldn't do, though, is magically 180 from your previous stance of this war being evil and the CB being wrong to suddenly lusting for war and whining that it might end before you can enter. You took days to get your stuff together to enter. Don't whine, don't complain. You failed miserably, and you failed your allies by waiting three days. No matter what else happened, you proved you were unready for war and you're utter failures in that regard. Whether you win or lose does not change this fact. And no, I don't care if you were secretly just waiting/hoping/praying to get the support of TOP as a number of folks have claimed quietly in back channels. It's still pretty damn sad.
Four: I'm not going to take any time here to address or defend the CB as presented by Athens and RoK. The war started, you all are eventually either going to fight or sit out which will either cause me to fight or sit out, so I'm not wasting anyone's time. The fact is, a community was threatened and there are logs to prove it. My ally chose to use military might to ensure no further threats would ensue, and I will defend that decision. So will my alliance. We've been ready for 3 days now. We had over 100 people (out of what...170?) on IRC the last few nights just waiting to ruin someone's day. We're not really afraid of whether we get hit in retaliation or not - it's part of the game, and we'd respect the alliance for (finally) sticking up for its treaties. It's what we're doing, and it's a nice common ground to fight on. So, I'm not posting this to carry over the same damn debates. I'm here to point out some of the flaws I've been seeing and imploring you to stop damaging our brain cells any further. Take it as you will.
tl;dr - Karma doesn't exist, you only make yourself look stupid AND evil for saying so, everyone is bugging you because it took 3 days to get it together.
Closing note: Even if you have a great strategy, that doesn't invalidate things either. So please don't go on about "just wait" or "oh we'll crush you soon" and please people on the other side stop harping about the sub-85K NS peace mode order. I'm sure you folks will get around to either not declaring or declaring, and then allies will jump in on both sides and we'll have a blast and a half duking it out, some plan will win over the other, and some poor sap will be dubbed a military genius or something.
Edit: Changed up a single word that makes people cry for some odd reason.
I couldn't agree more, time to get this going, and put ya money where your mouth is.
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Excellent find.
Yeah it is.
I would ask the question what alliance would leave there front door open like that and expect no one to walk in and take what they want, but I guess we already got the answer.
Hey least they consistent about their MO, even if that MO is consistently questionable.
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couldn't you guys go have this fight in The Family's thread? This isn't a thread for tantrums between The Family and FoB, it's the place for tantrums between GOONS and Kronos and RLMMO
Also considering that I seen your face over In our thread, you might want to reflect upon the conversation at hand my friend.
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couldn't you guys go have this fight in The Family's thread? This isn't a thread for tantrums between The Family and FoB, it's the place for tantrums between GOONS and Kronos and RLMMO
Actually no sorry, I'm sworn to combat hypocrisy wherever I find it. But since I think I've made my point, you can have your thread back.
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Could you please clarify the statement? Seeing as our names were only not put on it seeing as people only cared about one of the groups involved.
Ok I will try. You admit there was an it, and that you were involved in it. Also that you received no repercussions from it. That being said. There is a this, and you are making yourself a part of this, and apparently desire to make accusations in this, like you forgot that there was a that, and that you were part of that.
I fail to see how my logic escapes you.
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We didn't decimate anyone's armies.
Edit: and then brag about it.
Maybe, Maybe not, but seeing as your names were pretty much kept out of it then, I'm wondering why your putting your name in it now.
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Hypocrite much? Considering your alliance was doing the same thing not too long ago against Knight's of Ni! you really have no place to be bashing on GOONS.Once again Hydro this thread has nothing to do with that topic.
Edit: Where am I bashing the GOONS? That quote was a Kronos member.
Ok bashing Kronos then. And the difference is???
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Bully police? Look at you and Kronos pounding on a 14 man alliance who did nothing to you.
You forgot GOONS, please don't do that.
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Im pretty sure Kronos can handle their own. I guess bandwagoning is still "in".
Last time I checked bandwagons came at the very least after the majority of wars have been declared and initial attacks made. I wonder why it is then that the third person to engage after RLMMOs counter attack that started all this, was in fact a family member.
I don't understand why it was necessary to active this treaty as Kronos is already 8 times stronger than this 14 man alliance, which I might add is also at war with GOONS. Kronos should be able to handle their own, especially since it was a Kronos member who attacked RLMMO first. Either you are trying to prey on the weak, or Kronos has no idea what its doing and requested your help. I choose both.The best strategy for dealing with a nuclear rogue has always been one of isolation and suppression. That is to say engage and anarchy them as quickly as possible, thereby limiting their opportunities and will to declare on further targets, and in effort to drain their available resources as quickly as possible. This then is done by nations who are ready to go and fully equipped to deal with their particular type of threat. This strategy holds true whether were talking one nuclear threat or fourteen of them. This being said, yes Kronos are of a greater NS, and NS average, but with only 32 nations, and with the vast majority of their membership caught off guard by this rapid and untimely attack, they lacked the timely flexibility to deal with the matter as quickly as it needed to be. So our involvement was neither one of "Preying" nor "Ignorance", but rather one of expedient necessity.
Oh yeah...and I can certainly assure you that Kronos knows very what it is doing, I mean they certainly knew how to pick good allies now didn't they.
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Well said and highly respectable, Kewlleo, although somehow the word 'rouge' got into your post.
What can I say I just love red
So going nuclear is a CB? Having a bigger counter blitz than the attacking alliance is a new CB.It can be construed as such, and RLMMO did both as soon as they could.
If any alliance okays an attack against another alliance, that's a war. There is one CB for a every war. The CB for this war was "RLMMO has tech and they are smaller than us. "Their response is not a CB. It may be an over reaction, and you may not like it, but it's not a CB. The B had already started. You can activate your oA if you want to, but don't act like you had to do this. Not only is it factually incorrect, it sets an absolutely terrible precedent that a tech raid is somehow not a war.You're only helping to distort it more.
You use the term CB to loosely here. Not every situation that proceeds from the original event is to be considered part of the original situation, nor can it be.
Thats like saying that if a guys arrested for stealing, and is tried and found guilty before a judge who decides that he should get the electric chair for his theft, because someone happen to steal the judges wallet the night before the sentencing, that the defendant is somehow worthy of the sentence imposed.
That wouldn't even fly if the guy who stole the judges wallet was the guy who was brought before him.
And as far as what "We Had" or "Had Not" to do.
Their is such a thing as "Moral Necessity" to respond to heinous acts committed against those we call friends, and its as equally valid as any practical concerns. Please do not try to distort that.
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Once you accept two truths, that a tech raid is a war for tech, and that this war was allowed to take place by the alliance (they didn't boot out the tech raider after all for breaking their rules), it becomes clear that the alliance is responsible for it's members' wars be they tech raids or acts of vengence. Your attempt to down play that the goverment gave permission to their nation to attack another alliance escapes me, for if the reason was lets say vengence and the goverment appoved it, it would easily and without a doubt be seen as a war by the alliance getting attacked. Placeing tech raid doesn't change the fact that it is a war..
They were also the people attacked, you would think that Kronos would seek diplomacy before they allow their members to attack an alliance. You placeing responsibility on RLMMO to start peace talks seems backwards, as they are the ones being attacked, not the ones doing the attacking.
RLMMO did not take such actions to "make a name" for themselves. You know nothing of them, and while I respect bomber, you sir are speaking out of ignorance. RLMMO took such actions because many of their BIOs state this, and their policy switched to this due to the amount of tech raids they suffer for being a 14 man none alligned alliance.
You are aggressively attacking an alliance that decided to defend themselves against a sanctioned war by another alliance. Next time your alliance allows it's members to wage a war for whatever reason accept that the alliance is in effect standing by that war.
Like I told Sonny, I'm fine with standing by your friends, but this "let me play the victim" to sound more holier then thou is a crock, and I expect more from tF.
No the concept of a Tech Raid started as a means to rescue money and tech from highly inactive nations that were going to be deleted anyway, in this it made perfect sense, and as such it was a valid concept. As you said the concept has now become so completely distorted as to act as excuse and validation for basically attacking anyone anywhere so long as you think you can get away with it. So in that I do agree with you.
That being said though speaking as a almost 4 year veteran of this game, as one who has led both large alliances and small, and as one who has either been in or witnessed every major conflict (and most the minor one's) that this game has ever had. It has never in my experience been acceptable practice nor prudent policy, to respond to a conflict thus far limited to one alliance nation, by launching an alliance wide assault (with no time given for diplomacy to work), with the sole intention of launching as many nukes as possible at as many as you can conceivably attack. This is the mentality and action of a nuclear rogue, not of a responsible alliance trying to defend it self. And its intent and considerations far outweigh any event that had transpired before in the conflict in question. Any alliance leader ordering such an attack knows full well he is signing the death warrants of the nations he is leading, because regardless of the events that have transpired, he is forcing the hand of his adversary and its allies to react in kind.
The Family has nothing to gain in this war, no political aims, no economics motives, and certainly no aggressive desire to destroy the RLMMO, aside from the fact that they will not be allowed to perpetuate such atrocities as this on our allies. They made their call, they knew what it would mean, and thats apparently how they wanted it, so that is what they got.
Announcement from the Viridian Entente
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
VE are sell outs and suck ups.. that is all.