[World Freedom Federation Declaration of War]

have fun

o/ WFF

[O/ Soldier]

Maybe you misunderstood, there was no signature by Soldier on any document with TPF until OPP much after the war. Thus, there was no non aggression pact.

well then, is surrender term a legal document?

anyway, i can't find our old GP, and i'd be surprised there wasn't something similar since OPP is in fact protectorate pact.

i don't care about GP all that much, or whatever reason they attacked us, whether it was justifiable or not. it's important to note that TPF is totally capable and willing to attack its protectorate.

[O/ Soldier]

I really don't think TPF was the absolute failure here.

their attacking us gave us lots of trouble internally, especially when it came to FA.

The thing about a General's Protectorate is that it is a statement not a treaty. Nothing is ever signed for a General's protectorate. The only thing that happens is a statement of protection for the benefit of the greater community. A GP doesn;t even have to be wanted mutually. TPF could say they were protecting whoever they wanted. (see TBB's many statements of protection) They could also withdraw that protection at any given moment. So that being known and true TPF could attack Soldier for any reason they deemed reasonable. Whether they should have is another debate. Tl:dr Mhawk is right on that point.

i say by convention, people generally think of GP a treaty.hence, you usually announce it when the agreement is made, otherwise you'd see an alliance with multiple protectors, which i think is not common. I supposed there was a non-aggression clause in GP, if not, our mistake for signing it

[O/ Soldier]

Wrong forum, surely?

Also, Mhawk, you're really claiming that attacking a General's Protectorate is ok because it wasn't really a protectorate? I don't even care if that's legally correct (whatever that means), surely you can see that attacking someone who thought you were protecting them is wrong?

TPF attacking Soldier had substantial effect on our relationship, i lost trust in them after the incident, and really wanted to stay away, but i was just the minority. i couldn't stop soldier from joining OPP,so eventually i left. and soldier disbanded shortly after.

i consider TPF caused soldier's downfall, directly or indirectly.Just to be fair, if we stood together regardless of continuing our relationship with TPF or not, we wouldn't fall. nonetheless TPF was the trouble.

[O/ Soldier]

I probably wouldn't have hated Soldier if I had known a member of Vox Populi was running it

lol, i didn't even realize there were ex-vox in soldier, but no one ever talked about it.

[black 3BR + uranium]

Bonus Resources: Beer,Fast Food,Construction

[Cattle]-

[Fish]-Foxodi

[iron]-Das Land die Metzger

[Marble]-

[Pigs]-Foxodi

[spices]-

[sugar]-Das Land die Metzger

[uranium]-

[Water]-

[Wheat]-

[Aluminum]-

[Lumber]-

Initial infrastructure cost: -33%

Infrastructure upkeep: -21%

Population increase: 27.5%

Citizen income increase: $0

Population happiness increase: 9.5

Initial land cost: -15%

Purchased land area increase: 8%

Natural growth increase: x0

Technology cost decrease: 0%

Environment: 1

Soldier increase: 35%

Soldier cost decrease: $-3

Soldier upkeep cost: $-0.5

Tank cost decrease: 0%

Tank upkeep cost: -5%

Aircraft cost decrease: -8%

Aircraft upkeep: 0%

Aircraft limit increase: 10

Cruise missle cost decrease: 0%

Cruise missle upkeep: 0%

Nuke cost decrease: 0%

Nuke upkeep: 0%

[Black 3br trade circle]

[Cattle]

[Fish]

[iron]

[Marble]-whaureb

[Pigs]-losinglife

[spices]

[sugar]

[uranium]

[Water]-losinglife

[Wheat]-whaureb

[Aluminum]

[Lumber]

reply if you want in.

you must agree to trade for at least two mouths, and give at least 2 weeks notice before you opt out

[Introduction of Carthage]

tell me you're not serious, though i'm not too surprised....i know what's in your head

[Selling $20 Donation Acution]

18 mil

[ARES Announcement]

But some of these alliances will be on the wrong side of it someday. Maybe they'll handle it as well as NEW and Avalon did and merely say "bring it on!"

NEW whined a bit though

To which Avalon agrees wholeheartedly. Fighting for honour is as valid as fighting for a treaty. While we try to live by the general etiquette on planet Bob, we feel too much is assigned to treaties and not to honour itself. In this particular case however we naturally disagree with ARES viewpoint, since they are supporting RAD in support of the PC NAP breaking dishnour. However while PC is bandwagoning let me make this perfectly clear:

Avalon does NOT see ARES action as bandwagoning!

Joe and I spoke today and worked out any such issues. While we thank our good and loyal friends in TPF for defending us here. Please stop labeling ARES bandwagoners as we do not feel they are. If there is issue to be taken up it is with them supporting Poison Clans gross misconduct of late. This is more important than a treaty, and that is if your ally right? In the case of ARES Avalon obviously feels negative about that. However labeling of bandwagoner on ARES could just as easily be applied to Avalon in countless cases both past and future.

Hail TPF!

Hail ARES!

Hail Avalon!

i wish i saw something like this in DF's DoW

[ARES Announcement]

friends before treaty.

o/ ARES

[NEW PEACE]

NEW fought really well in this war

[Final Soldier Announcement]

You should expound on why Soldier was disbanded so we don't mistake these two quotes as being highly conflicting.

AUT's always been logically inconsistent

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

Miscomm, i was talking about Marcus, not you

well, it's good to know that 1 more DF members agreed that DF came into the war without valid treaty

DF is not an alliance which needs a piece of paper as an excuse to do what's right and help out some friends. In b4 e-laywers.

there

Ahhh... another Truth Reveal....

I always respect someone who never leave friends behind....

o/DF

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

LOL

honorable?

WOW!

you sure you guys are still using that word in your AA?

obviously, so far, we're the only alliance willing to risk everything for friends whom we have no treaty with. other DF members have already explained it well enough, i don't think i can do anything other than putting up a good fight with you guys.

Forgive him, he doesn't know much and will capitulate soon due to mass loss of pixels.

o/ NEW. Grind 'em

ignore him, he never stays true to his word, soon you'll see his change of opinion. (friendly reminder, what's with your radio silent?)

unfortunately, he's in peace mode.....

HIPPIES!!!!

what?

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

the honorable DF doesn't care about what our enemies throw at us, flaming,trolls,CMs,nukes..etc anything you name it.

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

You said couple of times that you will play it your way. Now, if you want to see my interpretation of CN politics, let me attempt.

I will not dispute your claim of victory over NATO. But you should not walk into the war at the last day, and claim to have the victory the minute they surrender.

i can't speak on my alliance's behalf, i don't know how people would interpret this, but do you think it would be ok if all we want is just take the pounding for our friends, not to claim the victory? cuz that's basically what we're doing.

The way we see it, your action is unwarranted agression against us. This is not part of the same war, and should not be treated as such.

we're coordinating our attacks with all the participants, so it doesn't matter how you view/twist our intents, this is the same war

[Declaration from The Galactic Republic]

youwish betrayed me? And you did what facetten? Abandoned me and your alliance? I was not here to see what DF did, all I knew is you sold our alliance to switch colors with DF asking, no, begging me to come back. I was never in favor of the move. TPF gave us over 240 mil in aid when asked upon yet you still couldn't let go of your grudge. Why?

TPF gave us $0. tech deals =/= aid.

youwish's situation was largely your fault, you brought a pro-TPF guy here when most of us weren't too fond of them. just ask around any former soldiers, how many of them actually like TPF? our relationship with them simply wouldn't work, too bad you couldn't see that.

Because you had blind loyalties to DF, at least for the most part I tried to keep an open mind. Your "I lost 10k NS because of TPF" rung true. You never cared of anything than your pixels and those who harmed them.

did anyone in soldier blame for what you and jack got us into? do you honestly think that TPF had a valid reason to attack the entire when none of us outsides you two deserved it.

if you tried to keep an open mind, why are you denying our contributions to soldier? is it because TPF has done more for the soldier or is it because you're not a man of reason. i think the following passage suggests the latter.

The only leader that should've taken over when I left was King William II. He knew the value of relaxing members amidst Melutar's tantrums and was the perfect team player. He shamed you, he shamed Melutar, and he shamed myself. He shamed all of us. And if there's one person I feel sorry for letting down it's him. The rest of you can buzz off for all I care. You mean nothing to me.

no disrespect to king, but this is non-sense.

[Declaration from The Galactic Republic]

AUT, you know damn well that Mel was the perfect choice, but he didn't like your friends in TPF so he had to go. Mel was one of the few people left in Soldier, who knew What Soldier used to stand for, and knew the majority of the people, but you couldn't let him revert to Soldier's old path, so you threw him away, and put magic in charge.

And your surprised by his actions? You had him picked to lead, until you learned that he stood for the same things that you used to stand for. And you had already named him Chairman, which means, you were indeed Nothing more than a regular member, but you used the blind devotion of the Soldier members to support magic taking over.

TGR made a wise decision here, and I really am sad to see Soldier disband, but If you want to find the reason for it's down fall, look no further than yourself AUT.

well said, AUT, stop blaming others but yourself. Before youwish came, no one liked TPF, he converted you and he betrayed you. thereafter, you were the only one who wanted tie with TPF. DF aided us lots of money, and what did TPF do? 100 mill tech deals? i couldn't understand why you chose to ignore the collective wishes, between DF and TPF, anyone would know who'd make a better friend.

you never respected mel, and those who helped soldier in hardship. you tried too hard to please the new people and forget them few days after.

mel, i hope you can have good time in TGR, they seem to be a nice bunch

[Final Soldier Announcement]

So basically facetten is a traitor, AUT deserted when he was needed causing havoc on the way out, and Mel flopped because he didn't get to be in charge?

Good bye Soldier. I enjoyed most each and all of your members. I sure enjoyed a good 99% of my time there. The one thing I did not enjoy is pretending to be nice to facetten and Dark Fist.

edit: Yes, bzelger, I was in charge of Soldier from January until a few weeks before NSO's formation.

you came to soldier and AUT appointed you as a chancellor. You were the reason why soldier was drawn close to TPF, and AUT put so much trust into you, yet you left for NSO for some cheap thrill, who's the real traitor? i'm 100% sure that everyone in soldier was just pretending to like you.

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

Up til now yeah I would expect people to follow their treaties and line up where they fall. It seems to be the whole point of the game.

lol, how many alliances dropped their treaties during the war? by your logic, the whole point of the game seems to be ditching your friends when they're in trouble.

[Final Soldier Announcement]

Yes but do you also realize TPF had no intentions of honoring their treaty with the NPO until after mhawk returned?

Why do I have to repeat it over, and over, and over again?

TPF dropped NPO's treaty. mhawk decided to leave TPF to defend NPO. I decided to leave Soldier to avoid it going into a war that they had no intentions on entering to defend mhawk. TPF did decide to honor its treaty with the NPO. OPP gets involved. Now do you get it? There wasn't going to be a war, TPF and Echelon entering triggered it rather unexpectedly. But what do you care? You abandoned Soldier the night it was supposed to happen and left to go to Dark Fist.

TPF had no intentions of honoring their treaties doesn't mean soldier had to do the same. stick to OPP, lets what you were supposed to do. we had treaty with TPF ,not with mhawk.

i wouldn't care if you didn't badmouth me/my alliance, this post has nothing to do with soldier, but your acts in general.

[Final Soldier Announcement]

Soldier didn't enter the war during the night of the mass cancellations resulting in no intention to enter the war. Besides you weren't in the alliance of the time that I left it nor do you know the reasons. Lecturing me facetten? Really?

soldier is in OPP, no? why did you join Elysium? if your loyalty/friendship was to mhwak not TPF, then why not just merged soldier into Elysium? why signed treaty with TPF? just to let somebody else in soldier to honor it? i also noticed that your AA changed several times, but you're acting like soldier is still yours. i think you should let it go.

[Final Soldier Announcement]

Domino effect really. A few active members left. A few followed. a few followed etc. I can't blame them. The alliance changed pretty drastically even in the time I was there. I tried to save the alliance but how much loyalty could I really expect having been there less than 2 weeks?

i disagree,

i was the first one to leave, however, as a member for political reasons.the other two left as gov, i'd think they should take more blame, but that wasn't the worst part of all. The leader (yes THEAUT) valued his loyalty to mhawk more than that to his alliance, and left soldier behind in the midst of the war. Not only did he not fulfill his duties as a leader, he also failed to fulfill his obligation in OPP. (and remember he got soldier into this). And then, he felt the needs to kick/ban/troll me, thestig, and melutar on irc, and take shot at our alliances. You can pretty much tell he's very irrational, irresponsible, and irritating during this period of time. i'd say AUT accounted for 80% of soldier's downfall.

i had good time in soldier, it didn't end well, but i had good time. i regret a bit of being so involved, due to how it ended. in general, i think AUT can be a good person, but he's sometime quick tempered and loses his cool.

[Dark Fist DoW 2.0]

o/

THE Darkest FIST is coming