hoff10
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Posts posted by hoff10
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is there a thread like this for the moon mine as well?
edit...never mind I figured it out
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That's an error mate, apparently our guys dropped your gov a line as its being peaced out. May have been someone with a similar name to that on a target list I imagine. Hit me up if you have any concerns via PM and I'll fix you up.
Alright, thanks. I will check in with some of the guys in government to see if this has been resolved. -
I have but one question. If you have declared war on the Phoenix Federation, why is one of your nations attacking a Wolfpack nation?
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O/ Wolfpack & BFF
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[quote name='halfChaos' timestamp='1292999577' post='2549624']
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA
[/quote]
LMAO -
Is Legacy kind of a big deal?
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The War of Christmas Past
The Holiday Raid
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[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292964553' post='2548634']
I love orange juice. :>
[/quote]
Not me. Tastes too much like vodka.
emmm....maybe that's just from a bad experience
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[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292912858' post='2547907']
You know, had all of you allies actually stood down, this would have fizzled out in a similar manner to the Sirius-AcTi War and actually spared you a lot of damage.
[/quote]
What else would all these hs/college kids do w/ their winter break? -
[quote name='Fort Pitt' date='18 February 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1266478711' post='2189225']
Congrats Wolfpack, I'd go to some neutral alliances for help getting out of bill lock though.
[/quote]
So you're assuming we're all n bill lock?
o/khmerkid
o/Stephen Dedalus
o/Kel Krussna
for a good, fun, and honorable fight -
Cool! Nice for UPN to get peace. Wolfpack and FEAR, my opponents were cool.
Good luck with rebuilding.
And yes Voodoochild, thank you for the nukes, my people are enjoying sunbathing under the bask of the greenish radiation waves that now cover my lands B) .
my opponents from ODN were brave and respectful and I thank them all for a well fought battle
o/ to all and especially to peace
I'm gonna go huff some radiation fumes now...
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BNT will enjoy being your Viceroy B)I second the motion.Hell yes.What I got out of this thread was "BnT for Viceroy"
BnT will guide you in your path towards keeping a straight story.
Edited for tone...move along
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and from a previous thread:
not that it matters at this point
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So if the others in Wolfpack did not get the sting info from you does this mean they have other spies?
are you serious?
try reading the post again. he admits he acted ALONEWhat he's asking is: How did Wolfpack know about the impending attack if not with your information? Are there other spies?you too.
People are responding to this as if it's an argument in defense, when to me it read like a complete admission and confession.Am I missing something here?
thank you!
Whats up with all these "explanations" from you Wolfpack people?Do any of us really care what you have to say at this point??
I mean, you go and spy on other alliances and think that it's ok?
[ooc] In the words of Eminem, "How messed up is you?"[/ooc]
Agasin, as lurking originally posted, he spied ALONE...not for the wolfpack. read his OP carefully and s l o w l y.
edit: this is an explanation from lurking not from "you wolfpack people" lurking is not wolfpack
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But most likely not the best way to earn peace (if you even want it at this point). If you had convincing evidence that this was the mistake of one bad apple, then speaking to IRON privately, kindly asking for any way to get out of the war, would have been the best option. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by publicly proclaiming "HEY WE SHOULDN'T BE BEING ATTACKED"; you're already being attacked. Trying to win a PR war doesn't do much for you guys at this point.Trying to damage reputations for preferring to keep things to themselves, for whatever reason, is great for the peace process.
I agree, and we have tried to no avail. Plusv the whole of Planet Bob has turned against us because of these lies so I thought they should know the truth.
I'm off till this evening
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All you, or any other wolfpack must do is come to me on IRC, and I will sit down by the fireplace and tell you everything you need to know.
IRON doesn't want the information posted publically. I would imagine it is because it really isn't anyones business that isn't already involved (no offense to anyone out there). I do have permission however to discuss things on a case by case basis.
I have at least 15 public channels open at any given time, but if you come to #ve (on coldfront) that is the best place to reach me.
Anyway, though you think this war is unjust, it isn't. IRON was provided with much evidence that you were spying on them. Fake or not, you can't hold them at fault for protecting their interests. As I said before, I don't know the whole story, so I won't say you didn't deserve this war just yet.Why not post it publicly?? We did! Besides, It is the honorable thing to do. We commend them for supportingb their interests,but we had nothing to do with this.
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Ok, Sorry for the long delay but I had RL matters to attend to yesterday.
After an accumulation of all of the evidence I could scrounge up in regards to the Wolfpack knowingly and willingly engaging in OOC spy operations, this is what I have.
Desert Fox explains it this way:
Hoff, you may have done nothing, that could be entirely true, but here is what we have, which btw, Im getting tired of explaining to all of the Wolfpack Gov...from now on, share info.Lurking came to us in Mid-February...back when he was a VERY well respected member of the Wolfpack Government and LONG before he had ever considered leaving CN, which may or may not be true. He was venting frustration about the lack of activity in wolfpack...saying how he must keep Wolfpack safe by any means necessary...
Mroche and I kept him talking...and eventually he let the word "SID" slip, which I have forgotten what it stands for but it is in the logs, which I dutifully screenshotted. He explained that this mass spy operations hit almost every big alliance out there including, but not limited to: NPO, NpO, and "working on IRON." Given the fact that he held two General positions, that seems totally logical that he, their most active member, would be head of the activity that would require the most activity (sorry for the redundance).
We also noticed his IP was a similar IP to that of our new member, shdwcld...upon further digging, it was indeed, not just similar, but the EXACT same. I screenshotted that too. With this, we went to IRON.
A couple of weeks passed and we still needed to prove that the nation was not just a multi, but also a spy who was relaying info back to wolfpack. I expected Lurking to ask about the "war with California," (war = Fake, a trap) a protectorate of TPF's who we have close relations with; however, it was Wolfprince that came to me asking whether we believed we had been spied upon and assuring me that we need not suspect wolfpack of anything. There is only one way he knew we were "planning the war" and suspected spies to be on our boards...He must have gotten the info from the spy on our forums. Again, this is all while lurking was in VERY good standing and LONG before he turned in his resignation.
We let it sit for a while, letting the tension recede...when 4 extra nations suddenly popped up one day and started receiving aid from lurking. I naturally assumed it was him trying to ditch his old nation, which he must have known would be toast, and trying to relocate to (a) new one(s). With this, we went to IRON again and this time it was too much.
As you can see, the war hammer has been held back many times. No, Im sure not EVERYONE in wolfpack is guilty of directly implementing the spies. Im sure not everyone infultrated an alliance. But wolfpack is a sudo-democracy/republic where you guys elected your leadership, they chose to do this and we have more than enough proof. I really dont see how there could be a conspiracy theory as it is more than likely that lurking tried to start over because they learned they had been compromised as oppose to "going rogue" in mid february.
In the end, I have many old friends there from my time in Wolfpack, yes, but that doesnt changed what happened. I am sorry, but it is what it is.
FOX
The only concrete evidence produced is a conversation between LURKING and FOX with Lurking making ALLEGATIONS that the Pack had spies everywhere including NPO and FEAR. Read for your selves:
If what Lurking alleges here and in his conversation w/ Mroche is the strongest evidence tying the Pack to Lurking's having multiple nations and being members of multiple alliances it is flimsy at best. What this evidence shows is that Lurking was spying on his own accord or perhaps he was working with Fox to bring the Pack down. It appears that when RoT was formed, lurking stayed behind to be their spy. He has multiple nations and has used them to infiltrate several alliances, and is now saying that he was the leader of a large spy ring that the wolfpack was supporting. I believe however, that Lurking was working on his own behalf and simply lied to Fox and Mroche (which is linked somewhere in one of these posts) about a Wolfpack sanctioned spy ring in hopes of taking the focus off of himself and his multi’s or because he was mad at the Pack and simply didn’t care that he was spreading lies because he was leaving cn.
Anyhow, here is some history for you history buffs out there.
Why would Fox do this you are asking yourself....REWIND
Well many months ago, I forget exactly when, Fox, who was a very valuable member of the Pack, was caught planning to start a new alliance and to do so was secretly recruiting Pack members behind the leaderships back. This did not sit well with the leaders of the pack and war against Fox was declared.
Shortly after this another inalliance fight took place between myself and Shigh/Kwell over a difference in opinion about leadership styles. Once it was over I believed it was over.
This brings us to the creation of RoT where many Pack members, including Kwell, Shigh, Young Ceaser and Wolf Princess for a time who then came back into the pack before moving onto the NPO and so on (hmmm…RoT spy maybe?), with hard feelings toward the Pack have migrated and that’s when all of this started taking shape.
Am I saying the Wolfpack is perfect? No. I will be the 1st to admit there has been a great lack of member participation by member nations including myself. I do not hold I'll feelings towards these nations ore anyone elsev for that matter for wanting to or leaving the pack as that was their decision to make on their own as independent nations.
As you can see, we were warned that this could be bad but we did the honorable thing at the time and let people choose their own ways.
Which brings up back to the present. Bored yet? Good, I'll continue...
By now the Wolfpack has been totally blindsided without any opportunity of diplomatic discussions or any chance to prove our innocence and many nations within the alliance who have no idea what is going on are scrambling to find answers and protect what is left of their nations.
This is when Lurking himself came to the Wolfpack IRC and forums bragging about what he had done to create this whole mess:
And multiple people from OTHER alliances, even our attackers, who know what he was up to and admit that it was him, Lurking, who pointed this all to the pack:
So now here we are, we have constantly been asking for real, concrete, physical evidence that shows without a doubt Wolfpack's role, or at least our leaders' role, in this supposed spy ring only be given none but what I have posted in this forum. Being an independent nation I for one believe that if such evidence existed, other than Lurking's ramblings and accusations as we all know him not to be trustworthy, then it should be brought into the open. None of the existing evidence points to any Wolfpack knowledge, participation, or sanctioning of any spy network as far as I can see. Like I said, if this evidence did or does exist beyond people just saying it is so, then it should be presented and any implicated nations should be sanctioned but to bring an entire alliance of independent nations who work diligently and have invested greatly to bring respect and honor not only to their own nations and the Wolfpack Alliance but also to Planet Bob is not only unjust, it is incomprehensible. The Wolfpack Alliance would have worked right along side of you to bring any such spy ring to justice.
I know you have all done what you think needed to be done and what you all thought was right, but the evidence doesn't corroborate this mass exodus of genocide. You have all made a point to the Planet that OOC spying is bad and we know that. We knew that. And that is why we don't and never have condoned, sanctioned, or participated in it. We don't even engage in IC spying unless it is towards a nation we are warring with. The Alliance has very strict rules on this matter.
I am asking all of you involved and observers alike to please examine this situation carefully and thoroughly and see where the real, physical, concrete evidence leads you and to reconsider your positions and please end this unjust war.
Thank you all for your time now I must go tend to my rioting citizens before they loot all of my prized possessions.
PS: Whoever edited our Wiki page with sick and obsurd sexist content that is just untasteful, unprofessional, and uncalled for
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Ok, Sorry for the long delay but I had RL matters to attend to yesterday.
After an accumulation of all of the evidence I could scrounge up in regards to the Wolfpack knowingly and willingly engaging in OOC spy operations, this is what I have.
Desert Fox explains it this way:
Hoff, you may have done nothing, that could be entirely true, but here is what we have, which btw, Im getting tired of explaining to all of the Wolfpack Gov...from now on, share info.Lurking came to us in Mid-February...back when he was a VERY well respected member of the Wolfpack Government and LONG before he had ever considered leaving CN, which may or may not be true. He was venting frustration about the lack of activity in wolfpack...saying how he must keep Wolfpack safe by any means necessary...
Mroche and I kept him talking...and eventually he let the word "SID" slip, which I have forgotten what it stands for but it is in the logs, which I dutifully screenshotted. He explained that this mass spy operations hit almost every big alliance out there including, but not limited to: NPO, NpO, and "working on IRON." Given the fact that he held two General positions, that seems totally logical that he, their most active member, would be head of the activity that would require the most activity (sorry for the redundance).
We also noticed his IP was a similar IP to that of our new member, shdwcld...upon further digging, it was indeed, not just similar, but the EXACT same. I screenshotted that too. With this, we went to IRON.
A couple of weeks passed and we still needed to prove that the nation was not just a multi, but also a spy who was relaying info back to wolfpack. I expected Lurking to ask about the "war with California," (war = Fake, a trap) a protectorate of TPF's who we have close relations with; however, it was Wolfprince that came to me asking whether we believed we had been spied upon and assuring me that we need not suspect wolfpack of anything. There is only one way he knew we were "planning the war" and suspected spies to be on our boards...He must have gotten the info from the spy on our forums. Again, this is all while lurking was in VERY good standing and LONG before he turned in his resignation.
We let it sit for a while, letting the tension recede...when 4 extra nations suddenly popped up one day and started receiving aid from lurking. I naturally assumed it was him trying to ditch his old nation, which he must have known would be toast, and trying to relocate to (a) new one(s). With this, we went to IRON again and this time it was too much.
As you can see, the war hammer has been held back many times. No, Im sure not EVERYONE in wolfpack is guilty of directly implementing the spies. Im sure not everyone infultrated an alliance. But wolfpack is a sudo-democracy/republic where you guys elected your leadership, they chose to do this and we have more than enough proof. I really dont see how there could be a conspiracy theory as it is more than likely that lurking tried to start over because they learned they had been compromised as oppose to "going rogue" in mid february.
In the end, I have many old friends there from my time in Wolfpack, yes, but that doesnt changed what happened. I am sorry, but it is what it is.
FOX
The only concrete evidence produced is a conversation between LURKING and FOX with Lurking making ALLEGATIONS that the Pack had spies everywhere including NPO and FEAR. Read for your selves:
If what Lurking alleges here and in his conversation w/ Mroche is the strongest evidence tying the Pack to Lurking's having multiple nations and being members of multiple alliances it is flimsy at best. What this evidence shows is that Lurking was spying on his own accord or perhaps he was working with Fox to bring the Pack down. It appears that when RoT was formed, lurking stayed behind to be their spy. He has multiple nations and has used them to infiltrate several alliances, and is now saying that he was the leader of a large spy ring that the wolfpack was supporting. I believe however, that Lurking was working on his own behalf and simply lied to Fox and Mroche (which is linked somewhere in one of these posts) about a Wolfpack sanctioned spy ring in hopes of taking the focus off of himself and his multi’s or because he was mad at the Pack and simply didn’t care that he was spreading lies because he was leaving cn.
Anyhow, here is some history for you history buffs out there.
Why would Fox do this you are asking yourself....REWIND
Well many months ago, I forget exactly when, Fox, who was a very valuable member of the Pack, was caught planning to start a new alliance and to do so was secretly recruiting Pack members behind the leaderships back. This did not sit well with the leaders of the pack and war against Fox was declared.
Shortly after this another inalliance fight took place between myself and Shigh/Kwell over a difference in opinion about leadership styles. Once it was over I believed it was over.
This brings us to the creation of RoT where many Pack members, including Kwell, Shigh, Young Ceaser and Wolf Princess for a time who then came back into the pack before moving onto the NPO and so on (hmmm…RoT spy maybe?), with hard feelings toward the Pack have migrated and that’s when all of this started taking shape.
Am I saying the Wolfpack is perfect? No. I will be the 1st to admit there has been a great lack of member participation by member nations including myself. I do not hold I'll feelings towards these nations ore anyone elsev for that matter for wanting to or leaving the pack as that was their decision to make on their own as independent nations.
As you can see, we were warned that this could be bad but we did the honorable thing at the time and let people choose their own ways.
Which brings up back to the present. Bored yet? Good, I'll continue...
By now the Wolfpack has been totally blindsided without any opportunity of diplomatic discussions or any chance to prove our innocence and many nations within the alliance who have no idea what is going on are scrambling to find answers and protect what is left of their nations.
This is when Lurking himself came to the Wolfpack IRC and forums bragging about what he had done to create this whole mess:
And multiple people from OTHER alliances, even our attackers, who know what he was up to and admit that it was him, Lurking, who pointed this all to the pack:
So now here we are, we have constantly been asking for real, concrete, physical evidence that shows without a doubt Wolfpack's role, or at least our leaders' role, in this supposed spy ring only be given none but what I have posted in this forum. Being an independent nation I for one believe that if such evidence existed, other than Lurking's ramblings and accusations as we all know him not to be trustworthy, then it should be brought into the open. None of the existing evidence points to any Wolfpack knowledge, participation, or sanctioning of any spy network as far as I can see. Like I said, if this evidence did or does exist beyond people just saying it is so, then it should be presented and any implicated nations should be sanctioned but to bring an entire alliance of independent nations who work diligently and have invested greatly to bring respect and honor not only to their own nations and the Wolfpack Alliance but also to Planet Bob is not only unjust, it is incomprehensible. The Wolfpack Alliance would have worked right along side of you to bring any such spy ring to justice.
I know you have all done what you think needed to be done and what you all thought was right, but the evidence doesn't corroborate this mass exodus of genocide. You have all made a point to the Planet that OOC spying is bad and we know that. We knew that. And that is why we don't and never have condoned, sanctioned, or participated in it. We don't even engage in IC spying unless it is towards a nation we are warring with. The Alliance has very strict rules on this matter.
I am asking all of you involved and observers alike to please examine this situation carefully and thoroughly and see where the real, physical, concrete evidence leads you and to reconsider your positions and please end this unjust war.
Thank you all for your time now I must go tend to my rioting citizens before they loot all of my prized possessions.
PS: Whoever edited our Wiki page with sick and obsurd sexist content that is just untasteful, unprofessional, and uncalled for
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My many apologies for not having the evidence up tonight as I had to attend to some RL happenings and it is taking longer to write this up than I had anticipated. I assure you all that I will have it up in a new thread by tomorrow though. Thanks.
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You seem to think wolfprince is innocent. I find this amusing.
can you please, please show concrete evidence (i.e. a screen shot) that show's Wofprince's involvement and would prove him guilty? So far the only concrete evidence I have seen from you guys is a screenshot of Lurking talking to Mroche which does not in any way, shape, or form justify your slaughtering of the Wolfpack Alliance.
Thanks.
I'll be back on the forums soon with Lurking evidence (insert Jaws music here)
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QUOTE (Rhinohelix @ Mar 9 2008, 07:40 PM)
That there was this kind of (OOC) spying and skullduggery going on by Lurking is unconscionable (in the context of the game). As a Wolfpack member I will eagerly admit that. And that the alliance as whole is the target of this mountain of condemnation is understandable, given the evidence against lurking and some members of the leadership. That we are punished by war is reasonable, given the rules under which Planet Bob operates.
I previously didn't take an active role in the inner workings of my own alliance, content to live on the fringe and grow my nation, interacting only when called upon. My ignorance to what was going on is no excuse, I know. This is my own fault, as I now see the cost of inaction greatly outweighing the cost of involvement. That we are bearing the burden of these actions is the price we have to pay, even among those of us who knew nothing about this.
Let me just say, however, that there are many, many, shocked nations in this particular alliance today. With the evidence laid out in this way, even if there were an alternative theory, it wouldn't matter. Events are real in their consequences as they are perceived to be real. Right now, that reality is both stark and bleak. We are eager to make this right in whatever manner that is possible.
I concur
Just to clarify here, what I am concurring to is the evidence against Lurking and how it makes the Wolfpack look bad even though the pack and our leaders did not sanction, support, or authorize any form of spy network. I also concurred about the statement of not being actively involed in alliance polictics has allowed this to transpire and many of us now are paying the price for at least one individuals asshatery.
With that said, I will be posting hard evidence this evening that shows our innocence.
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LOL, while you question my leadership ablities Hoff10, i see you doing nothing except sitting on the sidelines and judging. How come your never stepped up? And about my so called bullying and rash leadership..... How much power does a Colonel have? i mean serious. I saw an alliance that i was found of going down hill. So damn right i stepped in the drivers seat and tried to turn it around... But what did i get? Ridiculed (-might have murdered that) So while you are on the sidlelines watching i am very active and aware of what and where my alliance stands.
GOOD DAY
Hail all that are against the spying wolves
EDIT SPELLING
You were yelling at people, being rude, not giving people a chance to prove themselves, and generally pissing everyone under your comand off. So, when I called youn on it by giving you a dose of your own tactics you tucked your tail between your legs and got your roommate Kwell to continue the argument with me instead of talking with me yourself. Now you attack me after I' already in anarchy?? Such a brave soul you are.
Just hold your flaming for a couple seconds and think. Why would Lurking be stupid enough to admit to wolfpack spying on an IRC channel with other members in it ,then leave wolfpack and CN altogether ?I was surprised when I logged on one morning and got welcomed by a page of battle reports.
Then found out about this vast network of spies we apparently have aka : lurking.
- KalLaba
Now continue ..
PS IRON , you might want to sort out the stagger you have going with me.
I will post some hard evidence (SCREEN SHOTS) this evening that shows the Wolfpack did NOT sanction or condone any form of a spy conspiracy and that Lurking is simply acting on his own behalf and trying to bring the pack down and ruin our honorable history here on planet bob. But I must unfortunately go to work right now so please stay tuned........
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I'm not shocked. I've dealt with some of your members before, those members that have gone rogue and initiated nookular strikes on other alliances. If that doesn't indicate guilt, I don't know what will.
Please note that thosemembers have been denouced and condemmed by thev Wolfpack and Wolfprince has pulicly offered to assist in going after them in any way we can. They acted on their own behalf and NOT on behalf of our alliance.
try reading the post again. he admits he acted ALONE
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