ramneta
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Posts posted by ramneta
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I think there are major miss conceptions regarding neutrality.
First off, neutrality is not the same as pacifism. We don't care if the rest of CN goes to war. There is no "world peace" doctrine. We do not mess with other alliances and ask in return to not mess with us. What is so inherently wrong with that?
If you like wars join an aggressive alliance. But there will always be neutrals, because there will always be people who want it, just as there will always be people who want democracy, dictatorships, PZI, EZI, or anything else.
Luckily for the OP I do not see neutrlity happening on a large scale anytime soon, or ever for that matter, and I couldn't care less.
Personally, I stay in TDO because I like the community and the culture. It suits me. If it doesn't suit you then don't join, or leave. Whatever.
Edit: spelling
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Best of luck. Not that you need it.
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This issue is closed as far as I'm concerned. Oh well, back to radio silence.
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*Why* do you view recruiting as an aggressive act? What's the rationale?
Because it is an impingement on our sovereignty and just plain out spam.
The big question is, how do you feel about other alliances mass recruiting your members? I think you will find an answer there.
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That doesn't really matter. The point is many of you have called someone who leaves their alliance because of a recruitment message weak. You did not put in exceptions saying this applies only to those who may not be neutral. While I'm sure there are those in neutral alliances who aren't aware of their options and may be interested in joining the world of politics, it really has no effect on those two contradicting statements.
EDIT: grammar
Our members know their options. I am not aware of anyone leaving as of now. And if they do, Its unlikely they will join NSO.
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Why *does* poaching infringe on alliance sovereignty? All it does it possibly remove those members who aren't committed to the alliance. Do alliance leaders think their members aren't smart/informed enough to decide to stay on their own? Should alliance members not be free to leave if they please? Information about their choices limited? Smells like GOONS in here.
I will say this once more. It is not only the recruiting aspect of the message that enraged us. It was the insulting content. Although we view simple recruiting as an aggressive act as well. But not as half as bad as what NSO actually did.
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I believe it was. That and the numerous posts about on going discussions between TDO and NSO. There really isn't anything new, so I guess I'd wait for some word from TDO or just assume this is finished like it appears to be.
It is not done yet. But I do not think that you will see any substantial TDO posting so long as back channels are used.
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That basically means you are OK with people trying to poach your members. It is noted.
Congratulations NSO for pulling this off
No. It means we are discussing the matter. And since you are not a party (and neither am I), you still do not know what the outcome will be.
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NSO/TDO affairs are now going on in back channels. Hopefully agreement can be reached.
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*Edit: Wait, is that an apology?
Edit: If Ivan and TDO thinks it is, then its GG, Drama's over ppl.
1. He said it was poor judgment.
2. He said it will not happen again.
Those were the two most important parts for me.
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As I have stated to some via private channels, I am aware that this was not carried out in the best possible manner and that it was in "poor taste", especially given the current political climate.
The idea was that since I spout on and on about peace being the "Great Lie" of the Cyberverse that a natural target for such a message would be the "neutral" alliances. It was meant as a stunt, nothing more. It could have been handled better and it could have been addressed better after the fact.
That doesn't mean that we will simply lie down at this point and allow the sheep to stampede us. We made an error in judgement but it is over and done with. We have acknowledged this and agreed not to do it again. That is it.
For people to continue to go on about this being us trying to start a war is really missing the point.
Thanks for the apology. Hopefully it will be accepted by the wider senate, as I believe it should.
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Fourth, obviously this is being made into a bigger deal than is really warranted or justified. Poaching implies some form of proprietary position in regards to an alliance's membership. I believe that to be an erroneous assumption. Nations volunteer to join an alliance. Once they join they voluntarily agree to follow certain rules or chains of command but they are never beholden to that alliance beyond their willingness to reside there. If they choose to listen to some rambling commentary via a Private Message sent to their nation then that is their right and they are wholly capable of "jumping ship" at any time they wish.
He does like to leave us hanging, doesn't he?
Then how do you explain the insults against my alliance? Was this a simple recruitment PM?
The respect you show others is the respect you show yourself. At least in my mind. And you show none.
Edit: for the record: your assumptions are correct. No one left our alliance, and if they will they will certainly not go to NSO. What are you trying to accomplish here?
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I've read this entire discussion and I've yet to see a good explanation as to why recruiting someone from an alliance is wrong
As I said before. More then recruiting it is the insulting content of their message.
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I don't think people here get it. It is not just the recruiting. Its the disrespectful content of the message they sent. If it were a simple recruiting message "informing" neutrals of their "options" it wouldn't be as bad. It would still be stepping on our sovereignty. I'm pretty sure NSO wouldn't like others alliances "informing" their members.
Reading the posts it seems that NSO actually wants us to attack them. Behind every bully there is a coward. They are so insecure they cannot make the first move. So when and if we attack they can go hide behind their mummy (forstbite).
That said, I have nothing but respect to other forstbite signatories and understand their commitment.
Unfortunately I am but one senator in The Democratic Order. So like everyone here I'm curious as to how this plays out.
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Good. Embrace your passion, break your chains.
Lol, it's funny to see you know nothing about TDO. But keep up the pomp.
And don't forget to embrace the "dark side" Muhahahaha. Enjoy your silliness
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Some people here don't get neutrality. Being neutral does not imply being pacifist, and indeed we are not pacifists.
TDO is a great community. Its a way of life. Apparently most our members think the same as non have left our alliance due to the insulting recruiting message from NSO. It has only enraged our members, and rightfully so.
I'm willing to see all my pixels burns to preserve our way of life, if need be.
What ever you think of this all, I think we can all agree here that NSO made a "classy" move.
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I recruited over 200 nations into TDO and was also the Minister of Recruitment a few months back.
Frankly I'm surprised you didn't get a message from TDO.
Although they would probably get a low score in your ranking system
The Amazing Sanction Race
in Open World RP
Posted · Edited by ramneta
Not really. NSO hasn't gained any of TDO members since their recruitment spree.
However a new alliance did break off and took with it some of our members. Maybe Fallen Fool is also right and that some members left after hiding from the Karma war, which is unfortunate, since we are not a bomb shelter. I cannot confirm this however. If you join TDO make sure you join for the right reasons.