[Equilibrium Coalition & Umbrella Coalition Agree on Peace]

Where's all the love gone?

Not even Hal digging himself a hole big enough to fit his ego in is enough to save this thread.

[Equilibrium Coalition & Umbrella Coalition Agree on Peace]

Good thing I checked the OWF before finishing the second half of the quad. o.O
Barukh atah Adonai Eloheinu melekh ha‑olam.

You mean your alliance didn't immediately inform you of peace in-game? What kind of a cruddy, disorganised mess of an alliance are you a mem...oh, wait. I see.

[Equilibrium Coalition & Umbrella Coalition Agree on Peace]

Officially I am neutral about this announcement, but to be frank I am glad that all the nations that were tired of the war and couldn't take it anymore can now enjoy peace and rebuilding. The war-happy ones also got their fun for sure, thus I think it's a victory for everyone.

To those that fought well and to those that didn't: YAY peace! :)

So you say that while you're officially neutral you want to be frank, and then make three non-commital comments exceeded in their neutrality only by their banality.

Way to get us excited that you and GPA finally got hold of some personality only to disappoint yet again.

[Equilibrium Coalition & Umbrella Coalition Agree on Peace]

Well we got one hell of a hiding but have a whole new set of axes to grind and at least Umbrella didn't have to accept those preposterous original terms.

A pleasure (in a sadistic way) fighting IRON and props to MW, UCoN and Deinos.

[This Week in GATO]

You still don't seem to get that we had no real problems getting people out to fight. Slower than I would have liked but in the end the result was more than satisfactory. I'm sure there are very few alliances that could claim 87% participation much less 100%......If 87% is bad fine I'll work on it. 
 
No Legion was soft but RnR and Legion along with other nations we took out here and there in FARK, DB4D, GOD and Invicta......the top down approach worked great and it would have been very interesting had the whole coalition been able to adopt the plan and play it right. We did what we were asked. From what I gather you were the ones who said nah we'll suicide run and not listen to what is being said.

You had problems. You've admitted that. You can try and row back on it now but it's clear your nations didn't respond as you would have liked and you also admitted that you made mistakes. If "in the end" the result being "satisactory" is good enough for you then fair enough, but you aren't exactly showering your performance with praise and pardon me if I doubt whether it deserves the credit it's been getting. But I will.

[This Week in GATO]

So if you want to give us grief over playing the war smart instead of suicidal...ok You can have that I guess.

I'm really struggling to understand what part of "the problem is people giving you credit for things you haven't done". It's only twelve words, perhaps you can pinpoint which ones in particluar you're having a hard time with?

You seem intent on creating this image that I/we have a problem with how you've played this war. Maybe it plays into the great plan of how to deflect critisism, to try and create the impression that VE hates GATO no matter what the actual issue is so that out points can be dismmissed. Maybe you just see a post from VE mentioning GATO and without reading it have a response already lined-up.

The fact is that you haven't gone out out of your way to contribute much. Whether that's the memebrs, gov, or coaltition's fault or whether you should ever have been expected to or not the fact remains that you could have contributed a hell of a lot more. You didn't, you chose not to, the world keeps turning. However you have to expect that when people say you have it's natural for some people to stand up and say 'hang on, no they haven't'.

As for your 'strategy', the result of the war would not have ben any different. If the outcome of this war was ever in question then it would never have been started, that's how wars work nowadays. So no, your strategy of us all staying in peace mode while the alliance initially attacked gets ground to dust would not have had any great effect (as previous wars have shown). Also if you think that using Legion as an example of how it would work is going to convince anyone that it could work on some like IRON you're sadly mistaken. There's a slight difference in class between those two.

[This Week in GATO]

Take note of it and maybe you wouldn't be in the place you are now. Certainly if more alliances on our side had the chance to do it our way we could have pushed this war a lot farther. You wouldn't be in the shape you are now and a lot more alliances would be in as bad of shape if not worse off than RnR and Legion.

Oh dear Lord, 'the GATO way'. You've said yourself that members didn't respond when you wanted them to and that you made mistakes deciding when to ask nations to come out of peace mode. Is that 'the GATO way'? I can certainly see it becoming a template for successful coalition war planning. Alliance leaders of CN! Do you want to be involved in a coaltion war so that you can fulfill your base obligations to your bloc and some allies but also take minimal damage because it isn't your war? Then employ 'The GATO Way' today!

Also I can't believe you keep mentioning Legion as if taking them to pieces requires some kind of skill.

Like I said (and keep saying) fight the war how you want, we've been in your situation before, just be honest about it and don't try and justify credit for your involvement when it hasn't been earned.

[This Week in GATO]

Five members were so inactive they didn't see the request until days/weeks later. How many times must it be repeated? It has been made abundantly clear. In GATO it is acceptable for people to have busy real lives. We aren't hardcore gamers, like most other alliances. We think of it as "only five people away, you beauty!". There's advantages and disadvantages to being an older membership of generally casual people. Great community, not so great CN military activity/efficiency.
 
People can have a go at military tactics/efficiency, whatever, but the claims of not following orders, of dissent, of people in GATO opposing what we're doing, even passively is really absurd. Even for an alliance with a variation of views in almost everything, when it comes to war, we're consistently united, as is the case today. There hasn't even been an inkling of dissent, it's all a cocktail of BS from a person who gets personal enjoyment from making fluff pieces with as little legitimacy as possible.

The fact that some of your members either didn't want to fight or were sloppy/inactive is part of it. The other part of it is that such a large amount weren't even asked to fight. Put those two together and whether it's down to refusal to fight, unwillingness to fight, inactivity or piss-poor organisation the fact remains that GATO have not, compared to most other alliances, contributed a great deal to this coalition's war effort or taken much damage for the cause. Now there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, I imagine it was the plan from the start, but that fact remains and is why when GATO start getting posts of support and praise in this thread for being involved in a beatdown and taking a lot for their allies that people will disgaree with that.

Unless you think that GATO have been involved in a beatdown and have gone out of their way to make a difference?

[This Week in GATO]

The way we did it was the absolute most efficient way to fight this war.

Well I certainly can't disgree with that, the less nations fighting does usually mean less damage received.

[This Week in GATO]

Of course it is. I never said anything about VE until they decided to come over here and whine about whatever it is they are crying about.

GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies
GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies
GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies
GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies
GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies
GATO getting credit for being involved in a beatdown and going through the mill for their allies

I'm not sure how many times it can be said before you get it?

[This Week in GATO]

I also didn't tell them to shut up, however I would argue that mutual membership of a coalition in an ongoing war is good cause to show a united front in public, at least until the war is over.Acting completely counter to coalition strategy isn't particularly praise-worthy, no.

A good point. A flippant answer would be that mutual membership of a coalition should also include fighting together and that there are other examples on display of acting in a manner that counters coalition strategy, but I wouldn't want to get involved in that.

[This Week in GATO]

With all due respect, VE fought on one of the toughest fronts of the war and since they didn't have any treaties that EQ had to tip toe around, they were overwhelmed since day 1.
Of all the alliances on the iC side, I would say VE can rightfully criticize anyone and telling them to stfu, just because they aren't willing to help iC spin things is a little sad.

I think he's referring to a previous war when VE fought on the other side to GOD but still tried to protect GOD by only 'allowing' certain alliances to hit them.

[This Week in GATO]

Refuse? No. No one stood up and said no I'm not doing that. When I ordered everyone under 100k to peace. All but 3-4 real members didn't make it...with 2 days notice. The 100k+ Guys I ordered to hit Legion and what GOD had at the time when we entered did great. When I ordered 80k-100k guys out we did come out sluggish but eventually within 3-4 days pretty much everyone but those 5 were out fighting and cycling and re-engaging like they should. So refuse orders? Absolutely not. 5 not coming out to fight out of 40 is pretty damn good for GATO. As for 60k+ we should have brought them out a long time ago but there was too long of a debate in what to do in coalition planning and in the end peace won out against my recommendations. So they never really had time to follow through with orders. Enough came out for a round that RnR and Legion are down to a ceiling of 60k. The rest of 60k+ and everyone else for that matter I sent a message to come out if you want but it's no longer needed. So after all is said and done....5 people did not follow orders to attack and 3-4 didn't follow orders to go to peace. You want to judge me and GATO on that...fine.

Your members didn't follow orders. Either they stod up and said no, they saw the request and chose to ignore it or were so inactive that they didn't see the request until days/weeks later. Either way your military performance in this war has been disinterested and flimsy, which is why I disgreed with people saying that you've been involved in a beatdown and had gone through a lot for your allies. You haven't. There may be a good reason for this and you may never have had the intention or responsibility to do so, but it doesn't change the fact that you guys getting credit for it is wrong.

As far as I know we're just getting credit for doing what was asked of us. You seem to be upset because no one is patting you on the back for going out and getting destroyed. We'll you didn't get destroyed on our behalf so like I said we don't owe you anything.

Ever seen that Chris Rock skit where he goes on about how parents claim credit for looking after their kids, before reminding them that YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT DUMBASS!? Well congratulations GATO, you've committed minimal resources to war effort on the same side as your bloc in an unresponsive and ineffecient manner. That's the bare minimum expected of you and you managed to hit those targets, well done. If you're happy with that and the "we did what was asked of us, I don't see what more we could have done" approach is one that you're comfortable taking then fine, but don't be ashamed of it. Like I said if people are going to give you credit for what you've done then I reserve the right to disagree.

And I'm eternally grateful that GATO doesn't owe us anything, as that would be one debt that would never be repaid.

[This Week in GATO]

VE doesn't have much of a platform to criticize other alliances for stuff like this, just sayin'.

Perhaps you could 'just say' where I criticized them for it it? I said it happens. Magicninja seems to be under the impression that we're upset that we didn't receive help, I was pointing out that we didn't expect help for the reasons given. Didn't say they were wrong to do it, didn't say it hasn't happened before or won't happen again.

[This Week in GATO]

Could have been harder had the enemy put up any opposition.

Go find some, there's plenty out there.

[This Week in GATO]

Look at our alliance and how many we have in peace above 80k. Those guys are the only ones who didn't follow orders. Yes some were slow and that was what my angry rant in Schatt's op was about. Nothing more, nothing less.

So did some people refuse orders, or didn't they? You seem confused.

We don't owe VE shit. We did what we were asked and we did that well. Had we been asked to do more by someone we cared about. No hesitation. If CnG or HB or Hooligans or EvU want to bitch at us for something we did or didn't do we'll be glad to listen. They know where to find me and have the whole war. As for your whining...tell it to someone who cares. You got what you wanted. Congrats. I hope you feel great about yourselves. In the end I'm sure it accomplished a lot.

Yours and some of your bloc-mates attitudes towards VE are well-documented, which is why we didn't expect any help. I thought I'd explained this. I also don't expect you to care; although you committed to a coalition it was obvious that some members of the opposite coalition were more important than members of your own and you did what you could (politically and through military inactivity) to help them out. It happens. I'm also pretty sure that I said I'm not whining, I just don't want to see poor misguided people giving credit to an alliance where none is due. I'm sure as a responsible gov member you wouldn't want to be getting credit for something you hadn't done either, right?

[This Week in GATO]

What ignored military commands?

 

Those who you told to fight and didn't. Or is this a "they didn't refuse they were just slow" situation? Also playing the 'long game', huh?

[This Week in GATO]

So, far VE is alone in this sentiment.......I wonder why? It's not sour grapes because we came out of you canceling on us to bet in a better position than you is it? Nobody in VE ever approached me to ask for help with anything. Seems the problem is deeper than any of that. VE has been on this line for long before the war even......so to be honest I probably would have told you to fuck off had you asked. Maybe that's just where we're at.....So, whatever.

 

Nobody in VE expected any direct help from GATO, the point here is your alliance beng bestowed with false platitudes about how hard you fought and how committed you were and us calling BS.

[This Week in GATO]

Of course I did and do. I've never been one to bullshit anyone. I never spoke to VE once during this whole thing. Quite frankly its been a real long time since I cared to speak to VE at all. I worked mostly with NG and CnG. They know how committed I was. I certainly believe that if I had given the order it would have been another situation where a few came out each day until everyone possible was out and I would have been pissed again but we would have eventually gotten there. 

 

"We would have eventually gotten there". Wow, you paint a picture of a highly organised and efficient military machine. Two months into a war and after ignored military commands you're still banking on the hope that eventually some of your nations will respond. No wonder you guys are thought of in such high esteem by your allies that are on the other side.

[This Week in GATO]

Like I said you don't have to believe me ask anyone with access to the coalition board. I'd go grab a screenie right now if I had the class of Schatt. Not my boards though.

 

I fully believe that you posted in the coalition forums that you planned to come in. Whether you actually did plan to come in or had the ability to control your alliance into doing so is another matter.

[This Week in GATO]

Why am I not surprised its VE doing the crying now? You're right we didn't get beatdown, we did a little beating down of our own. The top down approach worked quite well. We were also told to play the long game as this war was supposed to last a lot longer so that is what I planned for. Your throw everything in, balls out approach is probably endearing to some people. It certainly looks brave and all that but I hope you are all now realizing how stupid it is. NG and myself and many other coalition partners pushed to release everyone in a way where we could do some damage and relieve some of the alliances who went in with their lower tiers. Instead we all kind of went in circles about the minute details and finally someone decided to abandon it I guess. Ask Goldie who I think was your guy on the boards. If he was paying attention he should have seen we were ready to move forward with it. You act like we weren't perfectly willing to release all of our nations. We were. 

 

Crying? On the contrary the whole situation's highly amusing. And you expect me to believe you that you were always willing to go but it just kind of never happened ("we were always planning to enter but the two-month war sort of finished before we had the chance" - how convenient) when even your own alliance don't pay attention to what you say?

 

Whatever the reasons behind your non-participation, the fact is that you received no beatdown and certainly didn't go through anything for your allies, hence my disagreeement with those opinions that came from one of your allies that is (unsurprisingly) a member of the opposition coalition.

[This Week in GATO]

Magic is wasted at GATO and should come over to the other side.

 

Not entirely sure what the other side to GATO is though.

[This Week in GATO]

Poor form IMO, GATO found itself in a tough situation with allies on all sides. They chose to support CnG and get beatdown when they had an easy way out of this war should they have taken it.

Chin up GATO, some people know what you guys just went through for your allies and slander like this post won't change anything.

o/ GATO

 

Beatdown? Get beatdown? GATO?

 

GATO chose to publicly and politically support C&G without commiting on the ground. That was the easy way out, to support their bloc without actually suffering many losses while also protecting allies on the other side by cock-blocking counters. And I'm not entirely sure what they 'just went through' for their allies. Not a great deal whatever it was.
 

[This Week in GATO]

GATO an embarrassment? Surely not.

[GATO Spy Ops]

What is this shit? Does any body care about the warchests of some crappy little GATO nations?