Sarai
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Posts posted by Sarai
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Uh... If you wanted an alliance that abhors terms which nudge their enemies towards disbandment, you picked the wrong one. I know it's awfully unfair to have the past practices of your own alliance applied against you, but I think you're just going to have to deal with it. Also,this argument that you're more deserving of life than the communities you destroyed is ridiculous and is NOT doing NPO any favors in this thread. If your leaders presented the same argument, they'd get twice the rep demands they've already received.
No one is arguing that as far as I've read. What I read myself writing is that I believe that two wrongs don't make a right and to hold a cross over 400-500 members is not helping anything.
I don't happen to have all the history on hand regarding past 'transgressions' by us, but that is also an advantage as it doesn't give me an attitude. My belief is that terms that force the disbandment of any alliance are wrong. Sadly it seems I joined this world at a time when they seem to be the ones presented to us.
But that's fine, because we are fighting against them which is the right thing to do. We fight this with arms, PR and importantly counter-offers of increased reparations that we can afford (just) while still allowing us to continue to function as a working training/recruitment alliance for many new players (and existing one) attracted by our community, activities and changes to manage or mentor people. All of that is worth fighting for.
*shrug*So other alliances aren't comprised of real people, who haven't gone to ZI for their alliances, who don't have strong communities, who don't have anything unique to offer, and which aren't worth protecting?
Only the NPO is worth protecting?
They are worth protecting and you have done that la. You seem to want to read what you want into something simple I say. I'll say it one last time in even clearer English, forgive me though it's not a first language. Since you are the winners in this war, I believe you have done your part in protecting your alliance. The reparations will do their part to boost your alliances above and beyond the New Pacific Order and your advantages and uniqueness will change with the times.
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The terms are supposed to hurt , and are fair (in light of the terms they have placed on enemies in the past). This refusal is nothing but the NPO higher-ups continuing thier pattern of having an alliance mearly to tech farm for thier elites. They won't accept anything that actually hurts the people at the top who are the most at fault for thier actions over the last couple of years.
If moo feels that there is language that needs to be cleared up , that would be one thing , but he's upset because his "elites" would have to bear the brunt of the punishment . And actually suffer the loss of some of that rather expensive infra before hand. If anything the terms are farrr too light and Every member of NPO should have to reduce themselves to less than 5k infra , THEN pay the terms in cash and tech as listed.
I also don't much care for the whining and crying over the length of time paying the reps would take , but I guess being in a state of war for a couple of years with terms given as "just die" makes me a bit cynical.
It isn't "elites". That has been mentioned time and time again, these higher nations that are in peace mode are what will pay the reps to KARMA once this is finally sorted out. In addition they will send rebuilding aid to the 500+ lower level nations that are at ZI or close to it. I've been in 17 wars since the start of this conflict and have been to ZI and back twice. If I didn't believe that Moo was doing the right things I wouldn't be here.
The KARMA terms are not about getting reperations, but rather as have been mentioned, i) Removing Sanction, ii) KARMA, iii) Keeping NPO down for as long as possible.
The third point is the point that damages the 'game' and as such those who participate in it. I do not believe in terms which only have a point to try and nudge an alliance towards disbandment. Therefore I concur and follow with our Leader when he rejects these terms because the Alliance is more important than the Pixels. Your terms would destroy the alliance and that is something worth fighting against.
I'm sure I can't be reading this right. Are you implying that the destruction of other alliances is not as important an issue as the destruction of the NPO, because it's larger and has had more say over the affairs on Digiterra? I certainly hope that's not what you're saying, otherwise I predict that the terms you've been offered are about to get a whole lot worse.No I am saying two wrongs doesn't make a right. I am also saying that with a larger alliance comprised of real people, many of whom (circa it looks 400--500) have gone into ZI for the alliance we have a strong community and that is something worth protecting just as much as possible. Our members, (at least some of them) joined Pacifca for what makes us unique compared to other alliances. Just as what causes your members to join yours, advantages. One of our advantages was that we had a very active community that engaged in a whole range of things that IMHO only a very few alliances can manage. These members fight, but they're not interested in the Real Politiks of this conflict. Your terms punish them because even as our higher nations struggle to repay the cash and tech element we will have to ignore these other members who we can't rebuild and we can't spend as much time with doing the things that make us unique.
*shrug*
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Ellis,
Lets try and keep the off-relevance messages down a bit. I'm sure we can leave that to some of our friends on the other side of the fence.
Krack,
I don't think you know the general feeling of the Body Republic, so I doubt you have anything to add by saying what the NPO believes or doesn't believe. The terms do not allow the alliance to continue to function as an alliance of people and friends having a fun time. I note that some arguments exist that we stopped others from being alliances, two wrongs doesn't make a right and indeed sadly Pacifica is larger and has a bigger community and function than these smaller alliances. You can try and apply abusive terms as KARMA and we can reject them because they are a danger to what makes Pacifica deep down great, it's people.
As long as your terms don't hurt the people I am sure they will be accepted.
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Bilrow,
:wub: When facts are needed, Super-Bilrow is present. Other nations take note.
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And the War on Peace Mode continues...
With Anarchy comes a time to require rebuilding. I've ZI'd twice and been from 38k NS to almost 0. I am fighting well, a small tactical breather is needed. This is the first peace mode I've ever been in ever.
<OOC>You recently changed your war/peace preference on 6/10/2009 and must wait until 6/15/2009 before you can change it again.</OOC>
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Minority defined as people who think or say spurious garbage without fact to back them up. That is the minority. If the majority of Karma are not like that, that is good. You, in my view fit the minority. Our leadership was not "hiding" in peacemode. The spreadsheet proves that. It also doesn't include the Council, for which I am a member who have also mostly been fighting.
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This conversation continues to chug forward with generally various spurious comments made by leaders such as Nintenderek above. When confronted with empirical proof against his comments he looks into his bag of 'wrath' and pulls other another one. Typical of a mindset of a minority.
Fushun City State has been to ZI and out twice now, tomorrow here is to another go. This is duty, this is proper courage and that duty and courage is what Pacifica is about. Go figure it's something some in Karma are still learning.
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Well, Karma isn't getting paid tonight, but if you hit me up on IRC....
Wait, no, they told me I am not supposed to do this in public.
Lets hit each other up and watch Karma implode with the distraction la?
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I believe our counter-offer was fair and reasonable and that our Leader's statements regarding the past were meant.
I see some of "KARMA" for what they are, revenge seekers. This is to be expected, the "ounce of flash" will always exist. I hope that cooler heads prevail and realise that to impose terms on us that are far in excess of anything financially imposed before as well as also demand that our alliance is in effect fully ZI'd is unreasonable and immoral.
We have lost the war, but we have fought well and so have many of our opponents. However there is no honor in Karma's refusal to accept our counter-offer, or at least to negotiate further. Without honour, there is no respect.
As individuals' within the NPO, some of us are close friends with those on the other side. I don't believe they feel that good about this ever changing ideology and demands from "KARMA". A complex problem demands a well-thought out and good solution, "KARMA's" current stance is neither well-thought out for the long term of this world, or a good solution unless revenge is the only goal. That to me, is a attitude worth fighting against and I will be. I will be.
I speak this as myself, not in my role of Council member.
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Karma does not support Eternal war, Eternal ZI or permanent ZI. As such we quite obviously don't want the war to last the next 2 years and it was be extremely hypocritical of us to do otherwise.
Thank you for the reply. I would state though that since no one really supports enternal ZI or permanent ZI except in the case of silly abuse like spying, then the only factor is "Eternal War". That would make sense to me as a member of NPO at the moment. It would appear our alliances have irreconcilable differences. Generally if people can't reach a good understanding... they continue to dispute.
For example, FAN still think we're arrogant NPO (rude name here) and we still want them to stop poking us with sticks and other such things. So we fight... (for a very long time.... :jihad: )
This so called "Karma War" here, is just a larger version of that isn't it? We all don't agree and now we're "wrestling in the mud" so to speak to prove who is right
Although in Fushun City's Case, I am glowing green in a radiation war somewhere, this is still fun, and I belive in it, like you probably do in your cause.Sorry, but I just see a surrender thread this early though as a sign of weakness. Perhaps I am deluded, but hey, morale boosted... my opponents want this to be over quicker than I do
Take care and thanks for the polite reply.
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What an announcement by the KARMA team, (
)It's a pity that it has the following flaws:
i) It is premature to expect that infra losses equate to a need to surrender. But hey, if a few bits of chafe fall from the sides you're doing a favor to "us", (Campo hey, I'm talking about you traitor, have fun with your KARMA).
ii) One week?
Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra. 
Anyway, Fushun City State will *not* surrender and will glady, if needed, see you on the other side of ZI and a re-roll. I'm sure you have some juicy little nations needing a poking at a lower level.
<Salute: Pacifica and her Allies>
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The truth will shine through into even the darkest corners.
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Thank you for being there for us when we have a time of need. Your stance shows courage and commitment beyond perhaps the calling of a mere treaty requirement. By taking the 'right' stand, or at least the moral stand we will be there for you when you have need.
<Salute>
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Respect
Honour
Being Brave
Next NPO Ball, I'll dance with you sir.
- Sarai
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I've found that the MIA song "Paper Planes" from the Slumdog soundtrack is great for wars.
Anyway, good luck Alpha and Beta, aid is awaiting from your comrades as needed
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God so easy to knock a thead off-topic... Does the picture matter? Not really. Did what I say about Zhadum matter, yes... which did you guys go for?
See, this is why I stick with the NPO, not a bunch of side-trackers.
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*yawn*
The thing you people don't get is that if Zhadum wants to delete my post, he can and there's nothing I can or want to do about it besides from answers and if I don't get those then hey, guess what like a normal company I can either quit or get on with it.
I choose in that instance to get on with it.
Also the OP doesn't have permission to post my photos, so please remove, thanks dear.
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Well if someone can help me, I'd like to sign-up. I am a very active RPer in the past.
I see however that all of China appears to have been claimed, which kinda makes me go, hmm. Seeing as how my Nation is in China *_*
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A well written and interesting article. I wasn't around back then, but I can believe after seeing the attitude of this "community" that the words about envy and so on are true.
It appears NPO is still here ((/me checks her flags))... Yep, so as I'm sure some famous people have said 'what doesn't knock you down only makes you stronger'... Since some appear to have got knocked down and never got back up and since NPO appears to be stronger, isn't that a mark of victory.
Anyway... I'm just happy to be in a great alliance that has the time, resources and intelligence to start threads like this with a greatly well written post.
o/ Vlad.
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On a forum I was a moderator on, they banned, fully anyone who posted a leaving thread. It would solve lots of problems here with users "going" then one week later coming back, "Sorry I made a ten page thread of leaving drama, I'm actually back!"
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Sounds great, well done all
May the FAN bandits be poked a bit more until they surrender more cash and stolen property!
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It was an analogy and you know it. Stop trying to sound like you know about the situation when you don't.
And you have a right to talk, obviously. Telling users to "Shut the .... up" OOC in this forum.
I spent the first half of this thread posting what I felt was right and explaining it, then people like you and a few others came along and either posted real-life slander, swear words or crossed the line. That disrespected some of your own members (as well as me) who had been civil and were attempting to either be IC, or at least get some information and understanding.
So, is that all your alliance is, a collection of anger and frustration about NPO 'winning the game'? Some of your other users were much more well spoken and actually appeared to have a reason to exist. You're just trolling IC and OOC and because of that, this appears no longer to be a game.
Sad.
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Also it's funny to see Speer speaking in support of the NPO so fervently, when a large number of us were actively looking for an excuse privately to Article III him for supposedly being a RL Nazi.
This is totally OOC and you had no right to bring this up in the public forums.
This topic had been an interesting discussion until certain members decided to go totally OOC and some decided to start swearing.
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An interesting post.
+1 respect for you.
However, a small comment:
When you play a game and beat your opponent, it is generally customary to play again.
If the NPO beats you, though, the game is burned and you are thrown out the door.
Perhaps this game would make more sense if people considered it a game
Thank you.
With respect again, I don't think everyone NPO beats is burned out. I have been here a short time and surrender terms tend to be given that involve NPO taking people under their wings for a while and then I presume releasing them later. I'm sure lots of you might see that as an attempt to 'control' and take over more alliances, but the other side is that we rebuild what we destroy. People *used* to be happy for that, wars were IC, rebuilding was both IC and OOC because we appeared to want the game to keep going.
With perma-ZI, yes, that's different. I trust though that in general the reasons are good and number of people on that list are small. I'd suggest that nuclear rogue nations are a menace, probably worthy of it, simply because of the hard work they destroy for no reason.
And without wanting to sound like I know anything, (I don't), I suggest the reason 'perma-zi' is thrown around with yourself and your alliance is that your reason to exist seems to be to destroy whatever NPO has created. When we beat you in a 'war' here, you will re-roll and come back and do it all again, but perhaps with a little delay as you build up. NPO doesn't really deserve (we're all OOC players who are generally nice people) to have our work consistently destroyed by an alliance that appears to exist only to attack us.
I may be wrong, but as I said I call it as I see it. The 'Red sphere', worked well for most nations but you appear to have invaded it. War seems/is inevitable I presume because of that, but based on what I read here, I can feel comfortable that it is not a war that IC or OOC I would want Vox Populi to win. You would destroy and keep destroying all that I had contributed to this game, for little reason. That would make me OOC sad.
If you were a 'normal' alliance you probably wouldn't have the PZI comments thrown at you. But since you're not, you will have them thrown at you. And for selfish (read, not mindless) reasons I support it.
Nice to keep things civil though. Thanks a lot.
:wub: 
Although in Fushun City's Case, I am glowing green in a radiation war somewhere, this is still fun, and I belive in it, like you probably do in your cause.
)
Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra. 
Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
As I have said, I recently joined Pacifica and was only recently elected to a current position. Our leaders have acknowledged defeat and have been generally those most exposed to loss of standing in this war. The remaining 50 or so nations of reasonable size are what will pay you your reperations (cash and tech) and continue to allow our alliance to do what it does.
Looking at the maths on both sides, the size of the repartions appears (even without the dreaded 2+ weeks of war) clause to be the largest ever. I believe that is the ounce of flesh yes? But alas it doesn't appear to be enough for your alliances and you would rather disbandment. True colours will shine through la.