Dexomega
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Posts posted by Dexomega
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Thats good to hear, however there is a flipside to that coin. You may be done with it however it takes two to tango.
I understand this. One can only hope their membership sees it as mirror being held up to them rather than whatever Steve sees it as.
In any case, the rowdiest members of the crowd won't change our stance on the reps here. Cry foul as you may, this was a decision that we agreed on. We'll deal with the consequences of our actions if we need to.
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The reason why the UPN reps are interesting to me, is not that they are getting back at us from a war many years ago, but that we were then allied to them after that war. So if they kept the butthurt up all those years, why didn't they just ask for the money when we were allied? This leads me to believe what I already assumed, that the UPN-NG treaty was disingenuous by UPN and not signed in good faith. This is evidenced by how they treated it (or ignored it rather) in the eQ war. And it makes me realize that UPN is more of a straight up realpolitik alliance like TOP. That helps me understand why they'd link up to TOP in the manner they did. UPN and TOP share quite bit in common when it comes to foreign affairs. Of course they differ greatly when it comes to military competence.
I'm getting tired of this. Did I miss something or wasn't our treaty an ODP-level one? Expecting an ODP-level treaty that was just signed to trump our longer standing MDoAP-level treaties? Let's face it, eQ was a bad war for UPN's politics. We had partners on both sides of the conflict, a fact that played into the decision to not enter. Actually, to be blunt, we had several allies on EQ and we had you on Competence. This is nothing new in politics and it has fractured relationships before. Acting like we did something wrong is pompous.
There was a very real pro-NG sentiment in UPN when the treaty was signed. I'll be honest, the repeated mentions of exactly what you just said, "This is evidenced by how they treated it (or ignored it rather) in the eQ war" have been what sent this whole relationship downhill for me. Entering the war on your side would have meant ignoring several MDoAP-level relationships that we have always held firm to. Simply expecting that to happen is even worse manipulation than what people have accused Polaris of doing to us.
When the NG treaty was signed, I was more than happy to put aside things of the past. I'm pretty sure that I was the only person in government that ever harbored any animosity over NG-UPN, so the fact that I let the treaty go through with a smile should be indicative of how serious we were. There was even talk of drastically changing our treaties list at the time to make us more aligned with NG. It got pretty far too, you'd be surprised. Of course, as time went on, I swear that (when taken out of context) UPN's relationship with NG began to resemble an abusive one more and more. The calm way you expected us to join your side of battle against a coalition containing our MDoAP-level allies, the way you expected it after you beat us up, and now you're even suspecting us of plotting against you all along. It's a textbook abusive relationship and it is frightening.
When I supported the $6 million reps proposal back in November of last year, it was because it symbolically meant (to me) that we were done with this whole thing. No one owes anyone anything. We're just done with this.
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Congrats to everyone on the front. It was a long war indeed.
Ah, but the lack of class surrounding UPN criticism marches on I see! Remember that one time that UPN was steamrolled, was handed joke reps, and then relentlessly criticized NG in their surrender thread?
Neither do I, we took the whole thing in stride (old thread). We recognize that the war was our fault and, while NG's rapid mobilization to kill us was disconcerting, we never openly held it against them. In fact, we became ODP partners not long after. What happened after that is a mix of politics and some (in my opinion) odd stances that NG took, culminating the the ODP being dissolved.
Cue this war, where several people started insinuating that UPN was puppeteering this situation and using it to get some kind of revenge on NG. Utterly ridiculous as I was probably the government member in UPN with the most lingering annoyance and dislike for NG after the NG-UPN war. If I wasn't in on the plot, then there wasn't one.
To me, the reps are a joke meant to symbolize that we're dumping all our gripes with NG once and for all. It doesn't matter anymore. Whether or not that matters is up to everyone else. If you don't like us still, then leave us alone. It's that simple.
EDIT:
Oh, and I realize that our allies went on something of a tirade in our favor in that thread. That was nice of them and all, but it also didn't get us very far. The same thing is happening here and I'm asking everyone to cut it out. This was a dispute between NG and UPN. Let's keep it that way.
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Imagine making this post and making it in this way lmao
Personally, I'm imagining this sentence making sense. If you're mocking my sarcasm, you really have to do better than that.
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Good show all around Legion. You're a good bunch.
I look forward to you holding by TOP's side next war come hell or high water. And lol at bolded part. You had over 3 months notice for this war, we both know that and you are more than happy to put your FA and DoW'ing in TOP's hands.
Wait, I thought that UPN were the ones plotting against you. It was TOP?
Whew, I'm glad we've got that figured out. Now I've got our FA policies straight. Thanks for letting me know. -
Franz, you don't have any evidence of a current NG triumvirate plotting to roll NpO. It doesn't exist and you weren't privy to that kind of high-level information - one way or another - anyway. So you saying you know anything about that doesn't prove (or disprove).....anything. You don't even have access to our highest levels where we would even talk about such things. You were a ex-Minister from a long time ago, not even in foreign affairs. Leave it be man as I don't want to keep having to straighten out your lies.
The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO. I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time. It's not my style nor the other current NG triumvirs or Titos (RIP). That's part of the reason the war took so long to take off, as NpO was hoping we'd make a move, when clearly we had moved on.
Not having evidence didn't stop this (old thread).
I'm just saying. *walks out*
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TOLWYN did it better.
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TOLWYN is his master guys. It's all part of the plan.
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There is a lack of class coming from several parties in this line of discussion. Let's just agree that UPN has missiles aimed at you and move on okay? I don't care if you think my missiles are bad, they'll come at you anyway.
I'll wish you luck and that'll be that.
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*sigh*
Well, we never did get along much. A combination of many events that both sides knowingly contributed caused the relationship between myself and the elements of BFF to be sour from the get go. I applaud you for realizing that my former alliance USN and my current alliance UPN responded to Europa's formation in the matter we best saw fit.
One needs to only look to USN and UPN's history to see why I'm very annoyed with government members abdicating their positions in a time of crisis. I took a very harsh view of this situation as I did in both of those situations. I tend to look down on those that do that sort of thing because I've built my political career on serving the membership, not myself. When we tried to keep UCN on its feet in the waning hours of its existence, it was clear that a few members were displeased with what happened and genuinely tried to rebuild it. That alone was enough to toss every flag in my moral playbook onto the field.
Back during the Peggysus Crisis, the UPN had a similar situation in which government members made questionable choices in abdicating their positions to form another alliance. In this situation, I also made incredibly damaging, sweeping attacks against Pegasus because of their blatant disregard for the membership of UPN that had fractured because of their actions. In spite of this, we managed to persevere as an alliance, arguably stronger than before.
Yet, at the same time, I realize that my anger toward Pegasus was extremely harsh. I played no small part in the eventual dissolution and systematic destruction of their nations. I played a part in destroying a membership, in stark contrast to my inner morals.
The same thing happened with Europa and LPH with me. I took an extremely harsh view of both alliances because of the UCN dissolution and the questionable decisions that came after. As much as I tried to maintain a decent public face when talking to elements of Europa and, more recently, LPH, I still had very harsh opinions on your alliances.
Unfortunately, LPH's (previously Europa's) and UPN's political squabbles only intensified and repeatedly worsened despite my attempts to stop it. Regardless of my feelings, I still hold loyalty to the membership as tantamount to an alliance's governing, so I tried to stop runaway escalation of tensions between us when I could. When it comes down to it, there is no reason that LPH and UPN couldn't be friends. Any squabbles that our governments had were selfish, myself included. I realized it but there was, unfortunately, very little that could be done by any one person.
The upshot here is that we all made rampant mistakes during this era. Neither government seemed capable of actually opening a dialogue. Some tried, but maybe we didn't try nearly enough to do so. I still can't say that I'm sad that LPH is finally gone, you did cause us no small amount of grief, but I realize that this is the product of feelings that are better left buried. If anything, this situation proves that I didn't do nearly enough in the early days of Europa and LPH to put my own feelings aside and attempt to repair relations between two estranged memberships.
So, I can't say sorry to see you go, but I can say that I'm sorry that I couldn't do more to repair the fractures that were present between us. Seeing a membership, even LPH, collapse is not something that I enjoy. If we could do it all again, maybe you'd still be a strong alliance and we'd be friends. Maybe we'd be fighting alongside each other in the current war, passing each other war aid, and watching the nukes fall on our enemies together.
Good luck out in the world and in your future alliances, that's the least I can offer a membership that now has no home to return to.
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I'll toss out a shout to gunslinger1988 and King Solomon who made the first round of this war actually tense and exciting. While their coordination was off, they did manage to do a fair amount of damage.
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When you are outnumbered, you are going to take quite a beating so turtling makes tactical sense, personally not something I agree with, I'll take my beatings and I'll have fun with it, clearly someone is playing the long game though.
Point being, that's still a bad propaganda piece, I would rank it down there is screenshot of nations in peace mode and fail spy ops.
...again, I've actually been the only one at war with him for days.
But hey, if he wants to play it this way whatever.
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Actually no, I stopped when I put my cursor over the MDoAP they hold with NpO and it redirected it to the wiki's definition of an MDoAP. I thought it said the same with CRAP, but obviously overlooked it and I clicked on CRAP's wiki instead and the treaty was called "The Brown Snow Pact". Really a minor error, but I'm glad I was able to make you realize that you're still a terrible poster since it took a silly mistake from someone to give you confidence.
My apologies for the harsh criticism, Avalanche, but at least you have one little error for you to correct on your wiki. Oh, and yours too, CRAP ;)Are we seriously arguing over wiki browsing ability?
Guys, come on. This has got to be the stupidest thing I've read all war.
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The more unfortunate thing is that nations who attacked me on ~your side~ gave up even launching cruise missiles a few days into the war, even though they could have overpowered me.
Hoping for more luck from my current opponents.
The guy I have pictured has 6000+ tech, nearly every wonder, filled improvements, and $3 Billion. This could have been a really, really fun war.
I mean, I wouldn't care if he didn't attack, then I could at least believe he was gone or something. Unfortunately he tosses just nukes over the border every day, so he's obviously able to play.
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This has gotten so ridiculous that I had to make this:
P.S. My other two targets both have +$500 million and one is turtling. The other only did a single (failed) ground war.
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Good luck out on the battlefield.
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I don't even understand why this was made other than to make white noise.
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We should just cut our losses and call this the Unnameable War.
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OuO just looks the best.
Except for when in conversation:
"Remember the OuO war?"
"Man, the Order upon Order war was fun."
"I wish things could be like they were in the OuO war."
That is my primary concern, compare with my choice:
"Remember the Disorder war?"
"Man, the Disorder war was fun."
"I wish things could be like they were in the Disorder war."
It sounds better.
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Don't forget to clean the shit off your shoes before coming inside later, GATO.
Ah, already bringing LPH's trademarked class into the thread? Faster than I expected.
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Good luck out there USN.
o/ USN
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A Declaration of Stats. Classy.
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Either "War of Disorder" (WoD, which is DoW backwards by some weird twist of fate) or [The] Disorder War.
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Morale has taken a big hit with this one!
[spoiler]Not.[/spoiler]
An Annoucement from the Nordeich-Non Grata Front
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
I said that last page. Since Karma UPN has gone through it a couple of times. Again, I stress that we had long standing MDoAP-level relationships that we maintain to this day on one side and on the other side we had an ODP-level that was just signed.
Taken completely out of context, it is easy to decide which coalition we should have been with. When put into context, our decision was to stay out.
I feel it's right to mention that, in my capacity as Minister of Finance, I tried to get in touch with NG via IRC to coordinate a rather sizable aid drive for you after the war ended. Unfortunately I got the stiff arm back then too, so I dropped it and we focused on Polaris. I actually completely forgot about this until right now.