A Statement from Doomhouse

[montypython]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300383585' post='2667845']
But I'm not, we're giving you such a good fight you're trying to trick us into an unwanted peace before we can claim our victory over you. And yes, it was intentionally redundant to highlight a specific trait of fungi which all you fungi share in common, that being spinelessness. I however, am not a bird. Shaddup and keep fightin.

You guys wanted everything to die, now we will give you your wish!

Unless that is you all wish to surrender on our terms.. then we can talk.
[/quote]
I invite your governments to propose surrender terms to us. See what happens with them, because my bathroom is almost out of toilet paper and I could use some extra.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300383139' post='2667842']
If you believe that the tamed NPO leadership post "karma" and among the BR mostly composed of people that joined post "karma" and in vast majority werent around for many of things usually mentioned hate for the parts of the world was present-- then I will be very interesting to see your definition of what our attitudes will be towards those that attacked us out of the blue for no reason.

Laughed out laud.

We mended many bridges, and bettered many relations. Those which doors were closed to us of course, couldnt.
[/quote]
Did you now? You made the apology to FAN foolishly in the middle of the war, perhaps you should have made it significantly before, I'm sure they would have accepted it if you had moved with sincerity. It is also my understanding that you never even attempted to apologize to MK for all that they have been through. Those should have been at the top of your list. Even if the attempt had been unsuccessful, it would have gone a long way in showing some repentance for the past, which is something that your government seems to be interested in, despite the ravings of Moldavi.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300382710' post='2667839']
Regardless of that, no alliance should ever, under any circumstances, be forced to convey "feelings" of concern towards another alliance, especially once terms have ended. I don't give a damn about you or your alliance and I never will, I certainly can hope that the NPO maintains at least that portion of its cultural heritage to say the same. No amount of bullying or posturing on your end will change that.
[/quote]
If you refuse to make amends for the past then you shouldn't be surprised that people want to kill you. It has nothing to do with freedom or independence or any lofty ideal like that, it's just a matter of people who hate you taking an opening. You want to reject the world? That's fine, but don't expect the world to forget and forgive without impetus.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Sardonic

[Branimir]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300383558' post='2667844']MK's embassy much? Don't make laughed out laud.[/quote]
Are you serious? Really? MKs embassy? After all the crap they pulled there? Really?

Well, Sardonic, I do not believe that you are in any shoes to preach to us lack of our diplomacy or about great grievances, since, you know-- we helped you be in the first place, while you "thanked" us for that with attacking us for no reason. Or even ever opening an embassy with us.

No, that does not work that way.

[neneko]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300381697' post='2667828']
What answer is that?

That Karma was initiated (and indeed named) as an attempt to stop the injustice of the great and horrible NPO in their ongoing oppression of the Cyberverse? That the imposing of restrictive peace terms and calls for disbandment and attempts to hold alliances in perpetual wars was so inhumane that you had to act in the interests of the smaller alliances of the Cyberverse and set yourselves up as martyrs and heroes for the befuddled masses? You mean things like that? Issues that fly directly in the face of hubris filled comments like the OP in which terms that are more or less equivalent to "fight the war our way right now or face war forever" are included?

Okay.
[/quote]
Karma was a war to stop npo. The promises of a world without any evil and any surrender terms were words put in our mouth by the opposition. We didn't engage in that war to become a world police that would rid the world of any evil, we have no right to do that in the first place. We wanted to stop npo and we did just that.

Have you really chanted the propaganda from the karma war so much that you actually think you didn't make it up or is it just used again now that it once more fits your purpose?


[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300382845' post='2667840']
You sort of ignored me when I pointed out that your alliance appears to be pushing the envelope toward a perpetual war to keep NPO down. I mean,
[/quote]
I saw your post. I did not however realize that you were actually serious about that. A month of war with no reps is not eternal war.

If you're still going to push the issue with that the alternative to coming out of peacemode would be to have the war continue then you also have to accept that any alliance that have ever issued any demands for a war to end is guilty of the same thing. If an agreement can't be met the war will continue, it's not as hegemonic as you try to make it seem.

[Timeline]

NPO tried to bait FAN to come out of peace mode [i]2007[/i]
DH tried to bait NPO to come out of peace mode [i]2011[/i]

I guess if you hate an alliance so much you just end up becoming just like that alliance.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Timeline

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='montypython' timestamp='1300383920' post='2667851']
I invite your governments to propose surrender terms to us. See what happens with them, because my bathroom is almost out of toilet paper and I could use some extra.
[/quote]

You're even an enemy of the environment! Wasting both papers and trees! And I thought the nukes were the only aspect of this part of you.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex

[nippy]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300383820' post='2667849']
10% of our nations have remained in peace. You're a dimwit. 90% of us have been fighting. Including myself. You should just be quiet now and stop making yourself look more the fool by people who actually take note of such things.
[/quote]

Shut up, idiot. You have 188 nations in peace mode, most of which are your higher NS nations that have been in peace mode for two months. If you knew what 90% meant, you'd find that you're the fool that should just be quiet now.

Edited March 17, 2011 by nippy

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300383934' post='2667852']
If you refuse to make amends for the past then you shouldn't be surprised that people want to kill you. It has nothing to do with freedom or independence or any lofty ideal like that, it's just a matter of people who hate you taking an opening. You want to reject the world? That's fine, but don't expect the world to forget and forgive without impetus.
[/quote]
I have never asked for forgiveness for any of my actions from anyone outside of the Orders and I never will.

I do not state that you can't have your war, I simply state that you are a hypocrite in the manner about which you go about it. If you hate someone and want to go to war with them because of it, good for you. Then do it boldly and proudly. Don't hide behind some sham of a CB or create a coalition and spout on and on about injustice and atrocities. Just do it.

Everything must die indeed. So why bother with proposing peace at all?

Edited March 17, 2011 by Ivan Moldavi

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300383558' post='2667844']
MK's embassy much? Don't make laughed out laud.
[/quote]

We do not keep embassies with people who act within like they have not surpassed puberty.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300384036' post='2667857']
Shut up, idiot. You have 188 nations in peace mode, most of which are your higher NS nations that have been in peace mode for two months. If you knew what 90% meant, you'd find that you're the fool that should just be quiet now. Go learn how to post like you have a set.
[/quote]

Only 10% of them have remained in peace mode the entire duration of the war, the rest of us have been rotating in and out, including myself. If you think I have not fought, go check my nation charts. You will not be responded to any further to, because your content is just that ignorant of fact. It's a pity you have so much brain.. and waste it on such poorly thought gibberish.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex

[White Chocolate]

Overall, well said.

Oh, and IF I were a member of NPO I'd be begging the leadership to say yes! LOL Are the big nations in this war a little jealous of the smalls getting all the dance requests? Poor dears...

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300334058' post='2666890']
We near the end. The end of forced disbandment. The end of terms that cripple alliances forever. The end of silence for fear of persecution. The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power. The end of cowardice. The end of myth and fear. The end of this war.

We will endure. We will prevail. We will bring about these ends.

Signed,
[i]Ardus of the Mushroom Kingdom
Sardonic of the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism
Natan of Umbrella[/i]
[/quote]

Not the end of tech raids, however. More like the beginning as GOONS (and any other tech raiding alliance on either side) will be very very hungry.

Okay...with this rhetoric starting up, I suggest anyone who hasn't found an alliance or any alliance under 20 nations who doesn't have at least one military treaty start looking, and fast

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300383964' post='2667854']
Karma was a war to stop npo. The promises of a world without any evil and any surrender terms were words put in our mouth by the opposition. We didn't engage in that war to become a world police that would rid the world of any evil, we have no right to do that in the first place. We wanted to stop npo and we did just that.

Have you really chanted the propaganda from the karma war so much that you actually think you didn't make it up or is it just used again now that it once more fits your purpose?[/quote]
Actually, if you go back and take a look at it, I was not in the best graces of NPO at the time of Karma and was not a party to their propaganda. I was however allied to a number of alliances within Karma and indeed fought and shed blood on that side of the arena, albeit far removed from Pacifica's front by design, and I was a party to the dialogue that was going on within the command forums housed by Sparta. I know what the agenda was purposed as being for the smaller alliances and nothing that I have stated is inaccurate.

[Branimir]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300384036' post='2667857']
Shut up, idiot.
[/quote]
Calling people names after they with facts destroyed your arguments, is a sign of a weak mind.

Maybe you should take a break.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Branimir

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300383955' post='2667853']
Are you serious? Really? MKs embassy? After all the crap they pulled there? Really?

Well, Sardonic, I do not believe that you are in any shoes to preach to us lack of our diplomacy or about great grievances, since, you know-- we helped you be in the first place, while you "thanked" us for that with attacking us for no reason. Or even ever opening an embassy with us.

No, that does not work that way.
[/quote]
Oh please, stop tugging at my heartstrings. You didn't so much as send us a Christmas card. You made an embassy with us, and your ambassador was passably diplomatic, but you should have sent gov diplomats if you actually wanted a relationship with us. Your role in the reformation amounted to delaying the return for an entire month while we waited for word from you, should have just gone with polar and left it at that. Besides, as anyone familiar with that situation knows polar did most of the legwork anyway, and we haven't attacked them [I]yet[/I].

Also pretending to be afk in IRC to avoid talking to somebody: still not cool.

[nippy]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300383891' post='2667850']
Ah, sidestep, nice move. *rollseyes*

The fact, as has been elucidated upon several times within this very thread (good job reading up btw) is that the percentage of nations within the NPO in PM is roughly equivalent to the percentage in MK and that such arguments from your side are pointless because the fallacy of your logic is easily dissected and put on display for all to see, as has also been accomplished several times within this very thread (did I mention how good a job you have done reading up?).
[/quote]

That's quite a run-on sentence there, Ivan. You can start up three of the worst alliances in Bob's history, but can't master proper formatting. You've apparently resorted to that same old NPO tactic of using the 'your arguments are pointless', which is sad. Since you belong to three alliances, I'd prefer if you'd take an NSO approach to this thread and actually attempt to be humorous. I know that's not your bag, but it does help add to the decorum when you're still attempting to appear relevant.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300380102' post='2667796']
You don't see how turnabout is fair play in this case? Do you forget what they did to FAN? Or the original GOONS? Or Genmay? Or NoR/NV? Or LUE?

The NPO once gave terms that were strikingly similar to an alliance they were at war with, it could have been GPA, I don't remember, but the terms were literally "come out of peace mode and fight for xx time and we'll discuss peace then." This is fair play.
[/quote]

FAN was not just NPO or are people revising history yet again. NPO led the charge but there were a lot of other alliances involved that did not give peace until the months leading up to Karma. iirc, Polaris was one of the first prior to Bi-Polar along with other BLEU alliances involved.

GOONS1 was Polaris and ~ Coalition. same with Genmay. (though i still contest to either one being forcibly disbanded instead of both alliances being an internal mess and not being able to carry on anymore)

NoR- was TPF not NPO.

NV- wait what????? i don't even recall this.

LUE- by your framework LUE deserved what they got for the terms they tried to lay down to NPO and NpO during GW1 which iirc included high reps, disbandment of Polaris at one point to a force move from Blue by Polaris. There was never any apology by LUE for those attempted terms nor any attempt by LUE to approach and make friends with either Pacifica or Polaris. So by the definitions of today, it is obvious that LUE got what it deserved and this coming from MK/Umbrella/et al. so, if NPO deserves this, i sure as hell can't wait for DH to get what is coming to them.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300380848' post='2667820']
The reps in Karma were not case to give them a blank slate, they are not entitled to have people's opinions of them reset to factory standards just because they paid money to get out of a war. If NPO wanted to change people's opinions of them they needed reformat their franco-centric worldview and engage in diplomacy. For whatever reason they were too proud to apologize to the people they wronged, and don't give me that "you wanted them to lick your boots" crap, diplomacy in no way has to be degrading to one of the parties, especially if it is conducted in peacetime. To NPO's credit, I do see inklings of them moving in the right direction. It is my hope that they take the deal and after all is said and done, they can begin to improve themselves.
[/quote]

so should we expect an apology from DH after this war finally concludes?

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300381319' post='2667826']
This 'point' brought up once again and once again I think I going to have to leave without a answer to what this ill defined past is that haunts us.

Seriously if you people are going to use this as a party line can't you humor me with a answer so it seems like at least you think it's a valid point and not something you made up yourself.
[/quote]

Draconiac Reps/Long-ass terms.
Preemptive attacks.
Might Makes Right attitude.
Arrogance in the extreme.
MK-centric attitude.
This very set of terms for peace.

is that clear enough? MK has become more of an NPO-Lite than you could ever claim Polaris to be. They have modeled themselves, in terms of attitude, directly after Pacifica of yore.

i am sure there are more but i don't feel like digging through the forums or rummaging my mind to find them. ((ooc: am studying for a midterm while i peruse the forums))

[nippy]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300384173' post='2667861']
Only 10% of them have remained in peace mode the entire duration of the war, the rest of us have been rotating in and out, including myself. If you think I have not fought, go check my nation charts. You will not be responded to any further to, because your content is just that ignorant of fact. It's a pity you have so much brain.. and waste it on such poorly thought gibberish.
[/quote]

Haha....'you will not be responded to any further to'.

Son, please don't attempt to sound intelligent. You will fail.

By the way, you're wrong about the 10%. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300384411' post='2667867']
That's quite a run-on sentence there, Ivan. You can start up three of the worst alliances in Bob's history, but can't master proper formatting. You've apparently resorted to that same old NPO tactic of using the 'your arguments are pointless', which is sad. Since you belong to three alliances, I'd prefer if you'd take an NSO approach to this thread and actually attempt to be humorous. I know that's not your bag, but it does help add to the decorum when you're still attempting to appear relevant.
[/quote]
Really? I am the one saying an argument is pointless while pointing out that there is a long sentence (not a run-on btw, just because it was more complicated than what you might be used to doesn't make it incorrect) and including a random [i]ad hominem[/i] that everyone knows is idiocy? No, I don't think so.

Should I go back and critique those grammatical gems you have been posting up over the last few days just for kicks as well? *rollseyes*

You failed to address anything of significance with your post so I will assume that my point remains valid since my post actually included one.

[Doitzel]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300383964' post='2667854']
If you're still going to push the issue with that the alternative to coming out of peacemode would be to have the war continue then you also have to accept that any alliance that have ever issued any demands for a war to end is guilty of the same thing. If an agreement can't be met the war will continue, it's not as hegemonic as you try to make it seem.
[/quote]
It is if you don't... wait, what were the words?

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300380848' post='2667820']
engage in diplomacy
[/quote]

Clearly NPO has rejected your terms, so yes, I suppose it goes on. The question is, for how long? Tick-tock. And I have to 'accept' no such thing: the only such alliances who would push an indefinite war rather than present reasonable terms of surrender are the oppressive types I've put a lot of effort into toppling. Surrenders should be [i]negotiated[/i], not forced under the threat of eternal war.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300384581' post='2667869']
Haha....'you will not be responded to any further to'.

Son, please don't attempt to sound intelligent. You will fail.

By the way, you're wrong about the 10%. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
[/quote]

This is my last response to you. Bickering over a % that is close to 10%, but not exactly 10%, is petty and beneath you. You may move on at any time to something worth talking about now that your actual argument has been crushed. Until then, continue to look the fool. Mind you, I notice you seem to enjoy this role so maybe it's just your hobby like a Jester in a king's court. Whatever floats your boat if that is the case.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Branimir]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300384381' post='2667866']Oh please, stop tugging at my heartstrings.[/quote]
Did you read that from my post? Silly. Also silly to make such a reply after complaining about our supposed lack of diplomacy and creating this argument.

It is not mine. I dont care for lack of any diplomatic overture towards us, from you even after we helped you be. My argument is simple and different. You do not get to preach us lack of diplomacy, or need for it, from your position. It is silly.

[nippy]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300384671' post='2667870']
Really? I am the one saying an argument is pointless while pointing out that there is a long sentence (not a run-on btw, just because it was more complicated than what you might be used to doesn't make it incorrect) and including a random [i]ad hominem[/i] that everyone knows is idiocy? No, I don't think so.

Should I go back and critique those grammatical gems you have been posting up over the last few days just for kicks as well? *rollseyes*

You failed to address anything of significance with your post so I will assume that my point remains valid since my post actually included one.
[/quote]


Your sentence was a run-on. I find it sad that you're unable to recognize that and own up to it.

I failed to address anything of significance with my post because there was nothing of significance in the post I was responding to. You claimed quite clearly that nothing we say is of value, that our arguments are invalid. Right back at you, pilgrim.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300380667' post='2667816']
Personally, I've always though of people getting bored and giving up strategic aims to be pretty lame, so it is a war I want to fight until our objectives are achieved. There are no really "better things" to move onto, really. I mean, do you think anyone wants to go back to long months of peace when everyone was complaining about how everything is stagnant not too long ago? 2 months(not even at this point) and then peace for a long time?'

It's really not important enough to give up the current war over, or we wouldn't be fighting it. Not that many people got out of the Polar theater without taking significant damage and Duckroll is being put on a more level footing after being thrashed. 2 months is nothing for a main front.
[/quote]
These continual claims that you are somehow saving the world continue to amaze me, I would laugh at them if the consequence of this lie were not so dire. You say that you're putting an end to the days of months without war, but at the same time you are seeking to completely dismantle what you perceive to be the most likely opposition (despite NPO's utter lack of international engagement, which you also contradictorily cite as the reason for the war) so the question is: Who do you expect to be fighting any wars in less than 6 more months or more once you've ZIed NPO and Legion? Your point is invalid because it is self-defeating.

[mrwuss]

war forever it is then, thanks for making your choice npo

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300384800' post='2667876']
Did you read that from my post? Silly. Also silly to make such a reply after complaining about our supposed lack of diplomacy and creating this argument.

It is not mine. I dont care for lack of any diplomatic overture towards us, from you even after we helped you be. My argument is simple and different. You do not get to preach us lack of diplomacy, or need for it, from your position. It is silly.
[/quote]
You know nothing of the depth of our diplomacy, we have resolved or reduced the hatred of many important alliances towards GOONS. From one hated alliance to another, I implore you to take our advice.