An Imperial Announcement from the New Pacific Order

[nippy]

Antonio is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. The eloquence is dreamy.

[Wabooz]

Hundreds of bickering posts over an apology. What a wonderful world.. Anyways, best of luck to FAN and NPO in finding some common ground somewhere, somehow.

[Sabcat]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300175454' post='2665425']
Antonio is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. The eloquence is dreamy.
[/quote]

Really? I've cringed reading his posts - They're object lessons in contentless verbosity.

[Alterego]

[quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1300032501' post='2662981']
So GPA is next, right?
[/quote]
Maybe VE, FOK and Umbrella will apologise too

[Alterego]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1300039199' post='2663081']
Oh, you have got to be [i]joking[/i].
[/quote]
He had a life before vox. Everything that happened or was done by NPO 2006 - 2008 was done in part by him. He wasnt a minor member and only left because he didnt agree with NPOs stance against Polar. All those beatdowns and viceroys were done in part by him.

[nippy]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1300178936' post='2665440']
Really? I've cringed reading his posts - They're object lessons in contentless verbosity.
[/quote]

I tend to find language beautiful when used properly. It's a bit like art appreciation.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1300131193' post='2664802']
I have little to say to people who use incredibly absurd analogies and little logic to back up their points. No seriously, you have nothing to say for yourself other than literally talking out of your ass. You went off a premise that was entirely false to begin with (that we have traditionally betrayed tyrants so that democracy could flourish wtf?) and continued off that premise. That is what I call talking out of your ass.
[/quote]

If our alliances weren't already at war, I would currently be pushing for "wanton abuse of the word 'literally'" to be our casus belli.

[Branimir]

[quote name='DogeWilliam' timestamp='1300144644' post='2665019']An unconditional surrender and promises of much reps to FAN might make them think you are sorry.[/quote]
That is not being sorry, that is being spineless.
No reps, no unconditional surrender. Just war.

Why it was made public while it only goes out to FAN, is maybe to give it more weight, to show our utmost seriousness about it. That question I can not answer really, but it seems to me the obvious answer. About gathering sympathy of the masses, what a futile endeavor would that be for the New Pacific Order-- resident evil of the world, with half of the planet defining their existence on opposing the Order menace (of all three flavors).
No, it definitely isn't about that. It is something that we had to do, what was owed and deserved.

Ever forward.

[nippy]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300187808' post='2665481']
Why it was made public while it only goes out to FAN, is maybe to give it more weight, to show our utmost seriousness about it.
[/quote]

How does making it public give it more weight? Who in their right minds thinks that a PR stunt like this is more heartfelt than a private apology?

[Branimir]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300188221' post='2665482']How does making it public give it more weight? Who in their right minds thinks that[/quote]
Our Imperial staff. Maybe they gathered something from on going talks we have with FAN representatives. As said, I dont really know the answer, but also, I dont really feel the need to learn the answer for you as we dont owe you anything. Think what you like.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Branimir

[nippy]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300188408' post='2665484']
Our Imperial staff. Maybe they gathered something from on going talks we have with FAN representatives. As said, I dont really know the answer, but also, I dont really feel the need to learn the answer for you as we dont owe you anything. Think what you like.
[/quote]

Ah, so if anybody wonders what the hell you're talking about when you're not making sense, you don't feel pressured in answering them. Good to know. This was simply a PR stunt and another plea for sympathy from NPO's not-so-well-oiled propaganda machine. You guys really ought to chip the rust off that puppy.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1300134078' post='2664837']
But if everyone is going to start to apologize publicly for every bit of stupidity/arrogance/poor choice/unwarranted attack/etc. perpetrated upon another, this forum is going to become a giant confession booth.
[/quote]
To be fair, that would probably be an improvement over its current state.

[quote name='Libera' timestamp='1300175288' post='2665423']
If this is addressed to FAN and only to FAN, why post it so publicly?
[/quote]
The answer to this should be obvious. They want to convince FAN of their sincerity, which would obviously be in question given the timing of the statement. It's a lot tougher to take back a public apology that everyone knows about than some post somewhere in a private forum.

It should be noted that the first thing FAN asked for was a confirmation that this post was actually authorized by the Emperor. They're clearly thinking the same thing.

Now I'm waiting for FAN to say something else, given that Mary gave them that confirmation.

[Branimir]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300188732' post='2665486']Ah, so if anybody wonders what the hell you're talking about when you're not making sense, you don't feel pressured in answering them. [/quote]
It does not make sense, only in your head.

I also owe nothing to goons, and feel no pressure, need or will to do anything on their asking.

[nippy]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1300189080' post='2665490']
It does not make sense, only in your head.

I also owe nothing to goons, and feel no pressure, need or will to do anything on their asking.
[/quote]

You're such a sad panda, Brani. Did the big, bad GOONS make you this way? We've apparently removed your ability to defend your own posts by infecting you with a nasty case of melancholy.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300188973' post='2665487']
To be fair, that would probably be an improvement over its current state.[/quote]

Less Beavis and GOONhead would be appreciated, but until it looks like we're stuck with them until at least summer.

Choson: When you finally show up to respond to this and watch the point sail majestically over your head again, be sure to have Sardonic draw you a picture first.

[quote]The answer to this should be obvious. They want to convince FAN of their sincerity, which would obviously be in question given the timing of the statement. It's a lot tougher to take back a public apology that everyone knows about than some post somewhere in a private forum.[/quote]

I agree with it being tougher to take back a public apology, but if you are going to go that route, I would have went about doing it in a different way. I'll be specific.

1. A letter from the Emperor to FAN expressing regret for past actions and apologizing for them is created.

2. A copy of said letter is delivered to FAN government for posting in the FAN forums.

3. Another copy is posted in the OWF soon after (doesn't matter who posts so long as it is signed by the Emperor), with an explanation that a copy had been previously delivered to FAN government.

You're done at that point. If you want to hang around to fire off at critics who doubt your sincerity, have at it. Really though, that should have closed the matter unless you want FAN to formally accept the apology, then I would have went all "backroom" and no letter generated until FAN expresses at least a willingness to accept the apology. Then the above steps are followed and there is a joint press release at the end. In theory, everyone "wins".

Sidenote: I'll cop to the fact that all this is ever so much easier while sitting in a leather chair observing the thing unfold from the outside....

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300181139' post='2665449']He had a life before vox. Everything that happened or was done by NPO 2006 - 2008 was done in part by him. He wasnt a minor member and only left because he didnt agree with NPOs stance against Polar. All those beatdowns and viceroys were done in part by him.[/quote]

While I'm sure Doitzel will be flattered, you greatly overestimate his importance relative to the Emperors of the NPO/NpO. In most instances he was a cheerleader, not the man behind the scenes.

Furthermore, I know that he went out of his way to find and apologize to many of those he had harried in the past. His apology was seen as sincere because it was made personally and then followed by very public actions that showed it to be honest.

I don't know anyone who believes that Doitzel needs to atone for his past, because through his actions he has done so many times over.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1300134078' post='2664837']....if everyone is going to start to apologize publicly for every bit of stupidity/arrogance/poor choice/unwarranted attack/etc. perpetrated upon another, this forum is going to become a giant confession booth.[/quote]

Got that right. And then there would be even more insincerity than we are confronted with now.

Some are asking Pacifica, "Where is the apology for this or that alliance?" Others find the timing of this apology to be 'interesting' given that the NPO is under attack. Both indicate that this statement isn't to be believed, either because of its limited nature or the timing.

You know, when NoR re-formed we approached many of the alliances we had wronged in the past, apologized and pledged to put the past behind us. Some believed us and some didn't. At least one responded by continually plotting against us, but now they're dead so we've moved on. (Nearly two years later, I hope those who didn't believe us will admit -- if only in private -- that they [i]may[/i] have been mistaken.)

At the same time, people from other alliances came to us and apologized for their past actions against Nordland. Many frank discussions were had and now we count many former adversaries among our closest friends. We have signed agreements with Ragnarok, Valhalla and The Phoenix Federation; all alliances who had unpleasant run-ins with previous incarnations of Nordland. While I was Kaiser, we worked with both the International and the Libertarian Socialist Federation to ferret out spies and agents provocateurs who wanted to push us into a war that nobody wanted. (Do not infer from this that I am calling INT/LSF our `friends`. I believe they remain among those who continue to eye us warily.)

And this may help to explain why I do not believe a single word of this apology.

Any kind of public utterance is not merely addressed to one alliance or group of alliances, but by its very nature it is made to the entire world. It may be public, but it is also completely impersonal. As the audience grows, its individual impact diminishes.

Within this thread we have seen Pacificans say what amounts to, "We don't care what the people in these public halls think or believe." If this is true -- and I believe it is -- then why make any kind of utterance here at all? It makes very little sense.

Some of us have had the misfortune to see many forced or otherwise untrue apologies over the years. Some of us have been put in that position ourselves. "You will make an apology on the OWF," quoth the pack of bullies in an IRC room that may as well be called #starchamber, "lest you or those you care about should be destroyed."

Pacifica has had many, many opportunities to apologize in private, where their words might be taken more seriously. However, when privately confronted with their past, I have seen how Pacificans truly feel. A chorus of, "We owe you nothing." A sarcastic, "Yes, we admit it. We're responsible for every bad thing that ever happened." All of which is followed by much pointing and laughing on their part.

This is what happened with Nordreich. And our is hardly an isolated incident, since only a few days earlier Pacificans had posted (quite literally) pages of abuse targeted at an Ambassador from the Viridian Entente, all within VE`s Embassy. (This is precisely the kind of thing the NPO would have gone to war over in the past; a bit of irony that probably was not lost on those who saw it.)

With many alliances, preconceived notions about aggression, attitudes and so on melt away through having a simple conversation.

Not so with Pacifica. Just [i]try[/i] mending fences with them. What you will get in return is slander or, as in this case, honey-dripping lies.

[Antonio Salovega VI]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1300178936' post='2665440']
Really? I've cringed reading his posts - They're object lessons in contentless verbosity.
[/quote]


Thank you! The effect for which I am aiming is the human equivalent that approximates the proverbial burr under the saddle. Your confirmation that I have hit the target pleases me. YEEEE-HAAAAAHHHHH! Giddeeyup!

[Arcades057]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1300199088' post='2665553']
While I'm sure Doitzel will be flattered, you greatly overestimate his importance relative to the Emperors of the NPO/NpO. In most instances he was a cheerleader, not the man behind the scenes.

Furthermore, I know that he went out of his way to find and apologize to many of those he had harried in the past. His apology was seen as sincere because it was made personally and then followed by very public actions that showed it to be honest.

I don't know anyone who believes that Doitzel needs to atone for his past, because through his actions he has done so many times over.



Got that right. And then there would be even more insincerity than we are confronted with now.

Some are asking Pacifica, "Where is the apology for this or that alliance?" Others find the timing of this apology to be 'interesting' given that the NPO is under attack. Both indicate that this statement isn't to be believed, either because of its limited nature or the timing.

You know, when NoR re-formed we approached many of the alliances we had wronged in the past, apologized and pledged to put the past behind us. Some believed us and some didn't. At least one responded by continually plotting against us, but now they're dead so we've moved on. (Nearly two years later, I hope those who didn't believe us will admit -- if only in private -- that they [i]may[/i] have been mistaken.)

At the same time, people from other alliances came to us and apologized for their past actions against Nordland. Many frank discussions were had and now we count many former adversaries among our closest friends. We have signed agreements with Ragnarok, Valhalla and The Phoenix Federation; all alliances who had unpleasant run-ins with previous incarnations of Nordland. While I was Kaiser, we worked with both the International and the Libertarian Socialist Federation to ferret out spies and agents provocateurs who wanted to push us into a war that nobody wanted. (Do not infer from this that I am calling INT/LSF our `friends`. I believe they remain among those who continue to eye us warily.)

And this may help to explain why I do not believe a single word of this apology.

Any kind of public utterance is not merely addressed to one alliance or group of alliances, but by its very nature it is made to the entire world. It may be public, but it is also completely impersonal. As the audience grows, its individual impact diminishes.

Within this thread we have seen Pacificans say what amounts to, "We don't care what the people in these public halls think or believe." If this is true -- and I believe it is -- then why make any kind of utterance here at all? It makes very little sense.

Some of us have had the misfortune to see many forced or otherwise untrue apologies over the years. Some of us have been put in that position ourselves. "You will make an apology on the OWF," quoth the pack of bullies in an IRC room that may as well be called #starchamber, "lest you or those you care about should be destroyed."

Pacifica has had many, many opportunities to apologize in private, where their words might be taken more seriously. However, when privately confronted with their past, I have seen how Pacificans truly feel. A chorus of, "We owe you nothing." A sarcastic, "Yes, we admit it. We're responsible for every bad thing that ever happened." All of which is followed by much pointing and laughing on their part.

This is what happened with Nordreich. And our is hardly an isolated incident, since only a few days earlier Pacificans had posted (quite literally) pages of abuse targeted at an Ambassador from the Viridian Entente, all within VE`s Embassy. (This is precisely the kind of thing the NPO would have gone to war over in the past; a bit of irony that probably was not lost on those who saw it.)

With many alliances, preconceived notions about aggression, attitudes and so on melt away through having a simple conversation.

Not so with Pacifica. Just [i]try[/i] mending fences with them. What you will get in return is slander or, as in this case, honey-dripping lies.
[/quote]

This apology is sincere. There are quite a few people, a majority in fact, who believe this is overdue. Kingzog, you should know me well enough to know that if that first part was untrue, I would simply avoid the topic rather than answer. From the Emperor herself, and Cortath before her, with Moo before him: They all three are in agreement that this is warranted; not merely in this public forum, but in private conversations. I doubt rather strongly that you will find many Pacificans of any stripe who fault the Federation of Armed Nations for this attack.

As to our treatment of VE in our embassy, I believe you're talking about SethB? Yeah, VE sending SethB to us would be like us sending me to FAN as our ambassador. You can call it a straight up noob move, but in reality it's not a noob move, it's another word with four letters, starts with a d, ends with a k, and you can fill in the blanks. VE at the time clearly wanted the reaction they received so they could use it as PR filler, as you just did. No one is that dense, unless they are being willfully obtuse.

[Branimir]

If it would be private--it would be no good. If it would be public-- its no good. Whatever, there is no pleasing some in the peanut gallery, so it makes it a more up front, honest move as it opens us to our haters to take a field trip on slinging mud-- it is well worth it to say things we needed to.

As the apology states, nor do we have illusions this will make right with FAN. There is no right here now, no magic fix. History can not be changed. But it still needed to be done, and the feeling is genuine if too late. For what its worth, it is what it is and it is here, finally done. Hopefully it means something to FAN, if not-- cant blame them. The war will go on either way, I feel.

And that is all I have to say about it-- random biased attacks on it, and on my alliance from randoms here are not in my focus.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300169179' post='2665379']
Your sophomoric response betrays a definitive lack of intellect and provides characteristic evidence that you couldn't quite pop your cranium from the anal crevice in which you have lodged it. See a surgeon. I understand that analencephalectomies are quite affordable. In the meantime, I wish you well in the dark.
[/quote]
"Look at me, I use big words, therefore I am automatically right in whatever I say!"

Never has so little been said with so many words. It doesn't make you smart, what makes you smart linguistically is if you could express yourself clearly and in a concise manner. Extra language is acceptable if you are, say, giving an example or a metaphor to help drive the point home. You are merely flaunting the fact that your brain functions as a thesaurus - You have lots of words, but you can't really say anything of value with them.

[Princess Doomee]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300188973' post='2665487']
To be fair, that would probably be an improvement over its current state.


The answer to this should be obvious. They want to convince FAN of their sincerity, which would obviously be in question given the timing of the statement. It's a lot tougher to take back a public apology that everyone knows about than some post somewhere in a private forum.

It should be noted that the first thing FAN asked for was a confirmation that this post was actually authorized by the Emperor. They're clearly thinking the same thing.

Now I'm waiting for FAN to say something else, given that Mary gave them that confirmation.
[/quote]

[quote]It should be noted that the first thing FAN asked for was a confirmation that this post was actually authorized by the Emperor.[/quote]

Why do you twist my words? I ASKED for NOTHING! I stated two simple facts.

[quote]They're clearly thinking the same thing.[/quote]

Your post sir proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you have no idea what FAN is thinking.

[quote]Now I'm waiting for FAN to say something else,[/quote]

Your wait is over.

[potato]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300210240' post='2665638']
"Look at me, I use big words, therefore I am automatically right in whatever I say!"

Never has so little been said with so many words. It doesn't make you smart, what makes you smart linguistically is if you could express yourself clearly and in a concise manner. Extra language is acceptable if you are, say, giving an example or a metaphor to help drive the point home. You are merely flaunting the fact that your brain functions as a thesaurus - You have lots of words, but you can't really say anything of value with them.
[/quote]

But... you don't say anything of value with the little vocabulary you have.

[neneko]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300210240' post='2665638']
"Look at me, I use big words, therefore I am automatically right in whatever I say!"

Never has so little been said with so many words. It doesn't make you smart, what makes you smart linguistically is if you could express yourself clearly and in a concise manner. Extra language is acceptable if you are, say, giving an example or a metaphor to help drive the point home. You are merely flaunting the fact that your brain functions as a thesaurus - You have lots of words, but you can't really say anything of value with them.
[/quote]
It was three sentences. It wasn't [i]that[/i] many words.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300211081' post='2665646']
It was three sentences. It wasn't [i]that[/i] many words.
[/quote]
First of all, it was four, go back to elementary school and learn how to count.

Second, given that all he said was "you have your head up your ass," yes, it was a lot of words with relatively little substance. Even less substance given that his verbosity lacks any sense of a cohesive idea. He has decided that logic is completely unnecessary if you can just throw lots of big words at your opponent with the distant hope that one of them might confuse him.

[KahlanRahl]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300211081' post='2665646']
It was three sentences. It wasn't [i]that[/i] many words.
[/quote]
If I'm not mistaken, I do believe he's talking about that post, [i]and[/i] the others he's made where he's pretty much done the same thing. I think that's more than three sentences.

For what it's worth HoT, I agree with you. It's obnoxious when people try to say something resembling intelligence using extensive and grandiose words when really, when you read it, there's not much being said. Quite frankly, get to the point, you're not impressing anyone.

Also... I think the discussion is moving a bit away from the topic. Anyways, good luck NPO. Or, something.

Edited March 15, 2011 by KahlanRahl