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Why is SF so terrible?


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[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1299499191' post='2655329']
im sure theres soemthing written somewhere about sovereignty, each AA has the right to direct their respective Alliance in matters of war, im not sure if it was this thread or another but the AA's currently involved in war have been notified of our postion and have our support in seeking peace without us, they havent choosen to do so.

so how is it our fault again?
[/quote]

Option 1: They stay in and you continue to look like jackasses for keeping your allies' wars going.
Option 2: They bow out and you look like jackasses as not even your allies support your decision.

Knowing your allies, this really isn't much of a choice.

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[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1299470083' post='2655004']
See, while I can't stand Xiph and wholeheartedly agree that he's being ridiculous, this strikes me as awfully hypocritical. "Xiph is trying to utterly end his enemies, and that's wrong, so Xiph should be utterly ended."

-Bama
[/quote]
Perhaps I should have been clearer: people like Xiph need to be taken out of a position of power, not... ended.
Or at the very least not allowed to be in a position where he can attempt to forcibly disband alliances.

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They are hardly worser then any other block out there. Actually, I do not particularly mind RnR, RIA, or FARK as an extended member.

It is true that a demise in their power is evident, even further, their future existence beyond this war is under question considering how they are fighting on different sides putting block unity under strain I am sure. But at least they have some member alliances that politically can garner some kind of respect as not total !@#$bags of no value from me.

This thread and the gist of it is more about GOD (its leader) as I took it then really about that block which is currently acting dis-unified (fighting on different sides) and I am not quite sure will remain for that much longer (though could be wrong).

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[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1299504764' post='2655400']
Perhaps I should have been clearer: people like Xiph need to be taken out of a position of power, not... ended.
Or at the very least not allowed to be in a position where he can attempt to forcibly disband alliances.
[/quote]
He picked one of the softest targets on Bob. That tells you everyhing you need to know about GOD. Hell, they arent even fighting them alone. Xiph has managed to speak for his allies again by keeping this going untill UPN are destroyed or they disband. Somehow this guy has managed to usurp CSN, IFOK & R&R. Who all seem more than happy to hand over their foreign affairs to someone who is not in their alliances and is leading them all off the cliff like lemmings. You never get forgiven for forcing someone to disband. SF are really all over the place. All are run by Xiph except Rok who have been abandoned by the rest of SF to die alone. Great bloc they have there :lol1:

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1299495844' post='2655309']
Why so what is this I found?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97361
[/quote]

Correct. Of modest note is the nature of this front. UPN declared on iFOK in support of Polar. iFOK asked for assistance from CMEA. CMEA obliged. RnR declared on UPN in support of its friends in CMEA. GOD then declared on UPN in support via SF in support of RnR. I'm fairly certain both iFOK and CMEA -- the two primary alliances -- the ones attacked or defending an attacked ally -- are willing to resolve this matter, though I certainly won't speak for either. For that matter, I believe RnR, a secondary alliance in relation to iFOK, is likewise disposed. GOD, which I would characterize as a tertiary alliance in relation to this particular front, is not so willing, at least for now. I can't speak to whether disbandment is Xiph's goal.

Anyway, I, personally, find it odd that the primary combatants are willing to reach a reasonable resolution to the matter but cannot. But such is life on Bob, I suppose. Surely this isn't a first, and it won't be the last. Best to just deal with it, and do the best you can. And we will.

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[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1299501844' post='2655360']
You've got one thing right, Valhalla and GOD do have a lot in common.
It is kinda ironic to see Val complaining about allies throwing them under the bus, though, given your actions since 2009.
[/quote]

Oh please uncle Haf, tell us what you meant by this ? I'm always glad to hear more of your opinions about us !

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1299510923' post='2655445']
If you think we let Pxychosis run our FA or IA then you're very mistaken.
[/quote]
Fair enough, he isnt pressuring you to help forcibly disband UPN. This is something iFOKs leaders are trying to achieve themselves.

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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1299511524' post='2655449']
Fair enough, he isnt pressuring you to help forcibly disband UPN. This is something iFOKs leaders are trying to achieve themselves.
[/quote]

Not really no, but think what you want to. iFOK is not an alliance to force people into eternal war or disbandment. The only term we would use (some people call it a term, I don't) is a no re-entry clause.

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1299511686' post='2655451']
Not really no, but think what you want to. [b]iFOK is not an alliance to force people into eternal war or disbandment[/b]. The only term we would use (some people call it a term, I don't) is a no re-entry clause.
[/quote]
Thats the war you are fighting right now. If its not your agenda its the agenda of others fighting UPN with you and you are assisting those who want it.

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1299511842' post='2655452']
Thats the war you are fighting right now. If its not your agenda its the agenda of others fighting UPN and you are assisting those who want it.
[/quote]

So, because someone declares on UPN (third in line, after CMEA and R&R), who declared on us, we are assisting Pxychosis? Your logic seems a bit flawed to me.

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1299512026' post='2655453']
So, because someone declares on UPN (third in line, after CMEA and R&R), who declared on us, we are assisting Pxychosis? Your logic seems a bit flawed to me.
[/quote]
The continuation of your war with them knowing its the agenda of others to disband them makes you equally culpable. Just the way alliances who didnt force reps or disband alliances were considered equally culpable in the eyes of Karma. Enablers Karma called them.

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[quote name='Heya' timestamp='1299482729' post='2655211']
Haha I like that post.

We weren't complaining about you guys not surrendering, atleast I wasn't. believe it or not spades but most of your mates don't have a warchest unlike you. In fact I'm looking at your entire AA's alliance spy report spreadsheet right now. So although you may be down for a dozen more rounds (with me hopefully), your mates don't have the endurance for it. Plain and simple.
[/quote]

One of these days, those crazy kids will learn warchest requirements. Perpetual war is awesome

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I, personally, will not say a bad word about iFOK concerning this matter. I'm far more inclined to say nice things, actually. The fact is that that there isn't much anyone can do at this point. Polar won't peace out until, at a minimum, its allies all have viable offers. UPN won't agree to peace with iFOK b/c they're still fighting Polar. And so it goes, round and round.

Personally, I think the intentions of iFOK and RnR and CMEA were made clear with the resolution of the USN front (which I was happy to see). We're just dealing with an added X-factor, if you will.

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[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1299454348' post='2654771']
You can hate him for the recent issues, but he has been a pivotal figure in world politics for years and has had a huge impact on how things have turned out.
[/quote]
I'm not saying that Xiphosis is impotent. I'm just saying that my perception of the guy is that he is a lot like the chihuahua that keeps barking because it thinks it is a German shepherd.

That being said, you are right, my views are certainly influenced by recent events. I'm always open to admit that I'm wrong though, as no one is a perfect judge of character.

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[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1299377398' post='2653984']
I think the problem is you don't understand the Ragnarok Culture. Surrender is simply not an option. Even if the entire alliance was at ZI and facing bill-lock you wouldn't see the members want a surrender. Hell theres a thread on the RoK forums now with dozens of replies and conversation about this and I can tell you now from the bottom up no one is willing to even consider using the word "surrender". Its the same reason why we entered this war in the first place rather then e-lawer our way out. We dont care about pixels, we only care about honor so using our pixels as a tool to sell out our honor will never work.

We will simply have to keep going till this can be resolved, I am more then happy to see this. In my opinion (as just a member)I'm also more then happy for all our other allys to surrender and pull out.

It's been a good war, and Ive met a lot of cool PC members along the way... when the time is right ill be happy to shake hands with a gentlemens agreement and part ways with a cease fire... till then the show must go on.
[/quote]

I liked RoK going into this war, seems like you guys have been randomly afflicted with delusions of grandeur and your posturing and refusal to surrender is one of the stupidest things I have seen in quite some time. Hopefully reason takes hold soon


[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1299453263' post='2654749']
Xiphosis or w.e. his name is, is the exact reason GOD has never been sanctioned. They're a hard working bunch but due to Xiphosis's ego they've never passed the #30 rank.
[/quote]

This doesn't even make sense and no where in this diarrhea of the mouth did you come anywhere close to producing a coherent or accurate thought

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[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1299454348' post='2654771']
You can hate him for the recent issues, but he has been a pivotal figure in world politics for years and has had a huge impact on how things have turned out.[/quote]

You say that like he wasn't (and isn't) cynically exploiting said world politics the entire time.

When I say that he's a "low-rent Electron Sponge", I wasn't entirely kidding.

No, at some point he'll run afoul of the wrong group of people at the wrong time as Sponge did and get served a steaming plate of crow with a side of humiliation. That doesn't lessen his impact on history, anymore than Sponge's fall from power lessened what he did in the time frame leading up to it.

[quote]This doesn't even make sense and no where in this diarrhea of the mouth did you come anywhere close to producing a coherent or accurate thought[/quote]

He's saying that Xiph uses GOD for his own self aggrandisement and isn't concerned with what effect his policies, attitudes, and goals have on GOD's internal development and growth. I would argue that while that view is a bit too simplistic, certainly Xiph's ego has been a factor.

Edited by ChairmanHal
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[quote name='Seipher Caim' timestamp='1299510250' post='2655441']
Oh please uncle Haf, tell us what you meant by this ? I'm always glad to hear more of your opinions about us !
[/quote]
You know perfectly well what I am talking about. I know you'd prefer to portray yourselves as loyal allies who would never plot wars against your own MDP partners, but some of us know better.

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[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1299512322' post='2655454']
The continuation of your war with them knowing its the agenda of others to disband them makes you equally culpable. Just the way alliances who didnt force reps or disband alliances were considered equally culpable in the eyes of Karma. Enablers Karma called them.
[/quote]

Sure, call us enablers, whatever rocks your boat.

The truth is the situation is much more complicated, like UPN doesn't want out unless polar gets out, GOD only wants what Pxychosis wants - not taking into account their non-allies (which we are).
I know you hate us, but trying to twist this situation in to a story where we force UPN in to disbanding is poor form. Whatever we do, you disagree with it. We might be your nemesis of some sort, but I hope you see we really don't want this disbandment thing to happen to UPN.

Edited by erikz
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[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1299516939' post='2655502']
You know perfectly well what I am talking about. I know you'd prefer to portray yourselves as loyal allies who would never plot wars against your own MDP partners, but some of us know better.
[/quote]

Being an ally of said alliance (albeit holding no government positions) care to elaborate? because personally, I think you are full of well you know what I mean

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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1299473780' post='2655029']
Don't play dumb. NpO won't peace out until it's allies have a peace agreement. So effectively GOD (if the rumors are true) and RoK are holding up peace. RoK is by far the worst alliance in SF, no one else is even close. Just because they want to keep their "winning streak" going, they won't surrender to PC. Surrender + no reentry is about as lenient as it gets for an alliance that lost a war. It's simply prideful and beyond stupid not to accept the terms. RoK got beat and now they are trying to e-lawyer their way out of that fact.[/quote]


The no surrender clause has existed since RoK was founded. It has nothing to do with any "winning streak" ...

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1299481926' post='2655203']
You guys are offering yourselves up for eternal war with PC? Sounds good to me
[/quote]

Then shut up and fight. The only complaints I have seen have come from PC and their allies. You know their stance and it isn't going to change no matter how much you complain about it.

Edited by Van Hoo III
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