Why is SF so terrible?

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='lazaraus45' timestamp='1299696643' post='2657839']
not really, DH is what makes PB truly powerful, GOONS and MK are occupied atm leaving Umbrella to do most of the work, and they'd probably win, but it'd mean them risking war with AA's like Fark, anyone who thinks Umb would attack an AA like Fark is delusional, they love their stats too much
[/quote]

Then by all means give it a shot. I'd love to see someone engage both the PC, Umbrella, and FOK upper tier. Seriously.

But why argue over it? It's not going to happen and our lower tiers will continue to rip apart easily replaced infrastructure.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1299703077' post='2657902']
I don't really come to these forums to insult anyone or to get insulted, but you seem to have some pent up emotions. If it makes you feel better I recommend indulging them further. Just don't expect me to fire back because, quite frankly, you're not the one holding my allies at war.
[/quote]

If you dont come to get insulted, maybe dont come?

Ty for allowing me to indulge my pent up emotions from your alliance hanging mine and my friends out to dry when having come to defend you....though you may not like how I indulge in the coming future

[janax]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1299704963' post='2657924']
If you dont come to get insulted, maybe dont come?

Ty for allowing me to indulge my pent up emotions from your alliance hanging mine and my friends out to dry when having come to defend you....though you may not like how I indulge in the coming future
[/quote]

Cue ominous music.

[Penguin]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1299704963' post='2657924']
If you dont come to get insulted, maybe dont come?

Ty for allowing me to indulge my pent up emotions from your alliance hanging mine and my friends out to dry when having come to defend you....though you may not like how I indulge in the coming future [/quote]
My comment was to add a clarification that I felt was necessary and missing in the discussion. How you indulge your emotions is up to you. I suppose you're implying that Valhalla plans to aggressively attack my alliance in the near future. So be it.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Penguin

[Goldie]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1299697130' post='2657840']
I hate it when PB has no friends except the members of the bloc.
I really hate it when those friends (that they don't have) have no friends of thier own either.
That part always sucks.
[/quote]

I was hoping we could be friends still

Oh well.

[janax]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1299708216' post='2657970']
I was hoping we could be friends still

Oh well.
[/quote]

You broke my heart though

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1299705998' post='2657937']
My comment was to add a clarification that I felt was necessary and missing in the discussion. How you indulge your emotions is up to you. I suppose you're implying that Valhalla plans to aggressively attack my alliance in the near future. So be it.
[/quote]

clearly not in the defense or support of any ally, you see that's antithetical to their culture circa 2011.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1299705998' post='2657937']
My comment was to add a clarification that I felt was necessary and missing in the discussion. How you indulge your emotions is up to you. I suppose you're implying that Valhalla plans to aggressively attack my alliance in the near future. So be it.[/quote]

Why do I get the feeling that even if we were serious I'd get no targets?

[Tautology]

I'm disappointed that a thread which was meant to investigate why SF is so terrible has degenerated into petty squabbles between other alliances and other blocs. How are we going to find the root of SF's terriblenosity when other groupings are muddying the waters with their own brands of terrible, ghastly, atrocious, fatuous, trite, naff, and fluffy? Is this all the future holds?

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1299712062' post='2658032']
I'm disappointed that a thread which was meant to investigate why SF is so terrible has degenerated into petty squabbles between other alliances and other blocs. How are we going to find the root of SF's terriblenosity when other groupings are muddying the waters with their own brands of terrible, ghastly, atrocious, fatuous, trite, naff, and fluffy? Is this all the future holds?
[/quote]

As with any predicament to the ails of Bob, it's always one of the two:

A) GOONs
B) [img]http://demonsdesire.org/god/Smileys/GOD-Smileys/rbxlk5.png[/img]Xiphosis[img]http://demonsdesire.org/god/Smileys/GOD-Smileys/rbxlk5.png[/img]

Typically, A) tends to be the safest choice.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1299711761' post='2658027']
Why do I get the feeling that even if we were serious I'd get no targets?
[/quote]

Because they only have 16 nations over 40k NS, and 300 nations under 15k NS, so you really wouldn't in all likelihood.

:x

Edited March 9, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299714621' post='2658069']
Because they only have 16 nations over 40k NS, and 300 nations under 15k NS, so you really wouldn't in all likelihood.

:x
[/quote]

Actually 3 nations in range, all in Peace Mode. Sensibly there I might add.

Well sparky, looks like you proved you point. Doubt we'll see a simple "nice contest, go forth and don't accept screen shots anymore" though.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1299716786' post='2658102']
Actually 3 nations in range, all in Peace Mode. Sensibly there I might add.

Well sparky, looks like you proved you point. Doubt we'll see a simple "nice contest, go forth and don't accept screen shots anymore" though.
[/quote]

Pleading mercy on their behalf? Color me mildly surprised.

Also, who knows what the future will hold, bud.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299718425' post='2658116']
Pleading mercy on their behalf? Color me mildly surprised.

Also, who knows what the future will hold, bud.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"]Reps. There better be some.[/color]

[pezstar]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1299705998' post='2657937']
My comment was to add a clarification that I felt was necessary and missing in the discussion. How you indulge your emotions is up to you. I suppose you're implying that Valhalla plans to aggressively attack my alliance in the near future. So be it.
[/quote]


Please god, so be it.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299718425' post='2658116']
Pleading mercy on their behalf?
[/quote]

*snorts*

VE doesn't have the power or the balls to hold down an alliance for years, particularly one as large as NpO, and nobody is pleading you for mercy. That's just massaging your own ego.

[Bob Janova]

Your lack of balls is our moral compass, though you're probably right about the power in the case of an alliance which has more members than we do and was larger than us at the beginning. Not that we ever had any intention of doing that to anyone.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1299721028' post='2658138']
*snorts*

VE doesn't have the power or the balls to hold down an alliance for years, particularly one as large as NpO, and nobody is pleading you for mercy. That's just massaging your own ego.
[/quote]

Oh Kalasin, that's silly on all points. Also, what bob said. Also, by mercy, I was responding within the context of the conversation about damage done with terms to follow, not damaging terms to follow. Furthermore, no where were any of the things quoted mentioned, you just kind of randomly threw them in there and sprinkled in some ill informed insults for spice.

You can do better then that.

p.s: Don't snort, it makes you look like a cavone.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1299722123' post='2658148']
Your lack of balls is our moral compass,
[/quote]
Oh Bob, that's silly.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1299722123' post='2658148']
Your lack of balls is our moral compass, though you're probably right about the power in the case of an alliance which has more members than we do and was larger than us at the beginning. Not that we ever had any intention of doing that to anyone.
[/quote]

So you go from Impero's implied threat, that VE holds all the cards and can give NpO whatever terms it likes, to portraying VE as an alliance admirable for its 'moral compass'?

[Doitzel]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1299692202' post='2657797']
Really Doitzel, a player of 5 years should realize by now that a single comment from a regular member does not imply alliance policy.
[/quote]
No, but it reflects on it nonetheless.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1299718425' post='2658116']
Also, who knows what the future will hold, bud.
[/quote]
An icy peace, some long rebuilding, the treaty tango and a resumption of the same wars in, say, nine months? But you're right. It's not like these things are [i]predictable[/i] or anything.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1299722123' post='2658148']
Your lack of balls is our moral compass, though you're probably right about the power in the case of an alliance which has more members than we do and was larger than us at the beginning. Not that we ever had any intention of doing that to anyone.
[/quote]
Oh dear. I see they still haven't found that cure, yet.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1299727392' post='2658220']
An icy peace, some long rebuilding, the treaty tango and a resumption of the same wars in, say, nine months? But you're right. It's not like these things are [i]predictable[/i] or anything.
[/quote]

What's your solution then? A multipolar world? Been there, done that. We're just supposed to shake hands and move on? That won't make a damn bit of good either. The issue is not that PB/DH are ~evil~. Now is not the time for a second moralist revolution. The issue is that the Orders over the past few months and years have had perhaps the worst foreign policies CN has ever seen. NPO has not re-integrated itself into the treaty web and NpO pissed off a lot of people in BiPolar and then completely failed to restore relations with anyone in the months that followed. Penguin was a good man but even now nobody has a clue what his foreign policy was when he was on the throne (I suspect he was simply inactive.) Now they've been attacked by people who don't like them. What a surprise! It's not like these things are predictable or anything!

tl;dr the onus remains with the Orders to make things interesting and get their !@#$ together, because PB/DH already have a large, unified side.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1299731497' post='2658263']
What's your solution then? A multipolar world? Been there, done that. We're just supposed to shake hands and move on? That won't make a damn bit of good either. The issue is not that PB/DH are ~evil~. Now is not the time for a second moralist revolution. The issue is that the Orders over the past few months and years have had perhaps the worst foreign policies CN has ever seen. NPO has not re-integrated itself into the treaty web and NpO pissed off a lot of people in BiPolar and then completely failed to restore relations with anyone in the months that followed. Penguin was a good man but even now nobody has a clue what his foreign policy was when he was on the throne (I suspect he was simply inactive.) Now they've been attacked by people who don't like them. What a surprise! It's not like these things are predictable or anything!

tl;dr the onus remains with the Orders to make things interesting and get their !@#$ together, because PB/DH already have a large, unified side.
[/quote]

The sad reality is the orders could have swung this war with just a little more integration. I have no doubt if NpO had another treaty with a member of Superfriends, or FARK, MHA, Sparta etc, any of these in fact, that they could have swung this war totally in their favor. The PB/DH power control is an illusion. Just one new treaty could change all that. Its up to the orders though to look at who the swing AA's are and put some energy into parts of the web where they will not only secure some strength but also detract from the strength currently asigned to PB/DH. Treaties chain... one can swing 3 or 4 (and then the AA's that only join winning wars start to swing as well!) and then eventually we could be sitting here asking what PB/DH need to do to get peace.

Lets be honest though its this FA treaty web stuff that keeps us all horribly addicted to CN! I love it!

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1299705998' post='2657937']
My comment was to add a clarification that I felt was necessary and missing in the discussion. How you indulge your emotions is up to you. I suppose you're implying that Valhalla plans to aggressively attack my alliance in the near future. So be it.
[/quote]

I honestly dont think thats what I implied, if I just wanted to do that I could join the dogpile that is currently chewing up your land and tech...

[Letum]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1299629076' post='2657219']
You may not agree with the reasons but it was certainly not for "no reason", there was just no conventional CB.

The analogy is quite quite ridiculous. Being forced into a war not of your choosing is far, far less harmful than destroying a community. And war offers an opportunity for hundreds of rulers to have fun and participate in the most interesting activity available as a nation ruler. Disbanding someone could only be "fun" for a few people assuaging their hatred and/or ego.
[/quote]

It would be quite disingenuous to assert that going around attacking people derives some sort of legitimacy because the people being attacked have the opportunity to have "fun". It is made even more ludicrous by the fact that quite a large number of people being attacked does not end up having fun at all, as evidenced by wars historically gutting the membership of alliances. Is tech raiding "good" for the person being raided because they have an opportunity for "fun"?

I do not deny that some people would indeed welcome the opportunity for a fight. But the implication that you can somehow make that a general value and apply it to every defender regardless of circumstance is some twisted doublethink. There's a reason relentless aggression is fairly widely disliked, there's a reason "just causes" for war are a standard. Much like disbandments, the main person having fun is the one that wants to assuage their warlust, and mainly the ones who get to win. Wars are not launched for the benefit of the defender.

Certainly, disbandment is not really comparable to war. But the point isn't to hold the two on the same pedestal, the point is that "it's fun" is not a very truthful reason to excuse things.