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SirWilliam

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[quote name='Hellbilly' timestamp='1298637848' post='2644688']
First and foremost, The NAC are battling GOONS and we are throwing everything we have at them. We (like GOONS) are not hiding in PM. In fact most of us have had and are still having a lot of fun battling against GOONS. The banter between our alliances has been as expected. Thoms posts were more about his opponents turtling than being in PM.

Does a few of our members and a few GOONS members say things out of passion? Yes. I have read a lot of comments on this and other threads that have made me facepalm. I am sure everyone has. But I know that the comments made are made out of passion for our respective alliances. I read what some of the GOONS have to say on here and I know it is wartime banter between two combatants. Its expected.

I can take some GOONS talking trash. I expect that. They are GOONS. We are at war with them. I would be disappointed if they didnt.

Whats NOT expected is someone with whom we have NO problem with, who is in the SAME coalition as we are, in an alliance whom I personally liked and respected, to troll us. I can understand disagreeing with someone. I can understand that you dont "like" us. But you have never talked to me or my alliance, so you dont do not even know us. Still you find it within reason to just verbally attack the NAC in a public forum. For that alone, what respect I had for you just evaporated.

I take more offense to your post than I have any post made by GOONS or any of their allies.
[/quote]
To be fair, Thom was being an idiot. There's trash talking, there's wartime banter and all that jazz, then there's his drivel. Before getting upset over someone on your side having a bad impression of yourselves, you should wonder who (if anyone) is getting anything but from the last couple pages of idiocy.

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[quote name='Hellbilly' timestamp='1298637848' post='2644688']
Whats NOT expected is someone with whom we have NO problem with, who is in the SAME coalition as we are, in an alliance whom I personally liked and respected, to [b]troll[/b] us.
[/quote]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

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[quote name='blueski' timestamp='1298638320' post='2644691']
To be fair, Thom was being an idiot. There's trash talking, there's wartime banter and all that jazz, then there's his drivel. Before getting upset over someone on your side having a bad impression of yourselves, you should wonder who (if anyone) is getting anything but from the last couple pages of idiocy.
[/quote]

Thom is my friend and my ally. I will defend him no matter what he says. I look at those posts and can see the point he was trying to make. I can take (as I am sure Thom can) our enemies bashing our words and throwing insults (like the idiot comment above) at us. Its only expected. I guess I am a little "old school" and didnt expect to be bashed by my own side.

But everyone has an opinion and I can respect that, I guess.

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I find your insult to my comment ironic to say the least. Why do you feel so?

My point is simple. Just because you disagree with someone does not automatically make it trolling. RV states disgust with the posts from 'your side', how is that being a troll?

Perhaps you should ask yourself instead why RV feels this way, and whether or not such feelings are warranted.

I'll just throw it out here too- I'm not here to win some battle of wits on the OWF because..well why bother? I've seen plenty of 'facepalm posts' from my side as well.

Edited by denkimon
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[quote name='Hellbilly' timestamp='1298639807' post='2644699']
Thom is my friend and my ally. I will defend him no matter what he says. I look at those posts and can see the point he was trying to make. I can take (as I am sure Thom can) our enemies bashing our words and throwing insults (like the idiot comment above) at us. Its only expected. I guess I am a little "old school" and didnt expect to be bashed by my own side.

But everyone has an opinion and I can respect that, I guess.
[/quote]

RV is a miserable cretin, at best it likes to read it's own words at worst it's looking to ingratiate itself with GOONS. Ignore it, not worth getting excited about.

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[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1298639689' post='2644697']
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
[/quote]

Probably not. You will never hear me brag about this fine Kentucky backwoods education. Lol. Maybe I should have used a different term. I am sure most of yall know what I meant.

Heck.. to be honest, I kinda wish I woulda just kept my dern mouth closed. I blame it on the lack of coffee this mornin.

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[quote name='Hellbilly' timestamp='1298640438' post='2644704']
Probably not. You will never hear me brag about this fine Kentucky backwoods education. Lol. Maybe I should have used a different term. I am sure most of yall know what I meant.

Heck.. to be honest, I kinda wish I woulda just kept my dern mouth closed. I blame it on the lack of coffee this mornin.
[/quote]

Fair enough. Cheers mate and go get yourself some coffee.

Now back to horrible GOONs...

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[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1298640184' post='2644701']
I find your insult to my comment ironic to say the least. Why do you feel so?

My point is simple. Just because you disagree with someone does not automatically make it trolling. RV states disgust with the posts from 'your side', how is that being a troll?

Perhaps you should ask yourself instead why RV feels this way, and whether or not such feelings are warranted.

I'll just throw it out here too- I'm not here to win some battle of wits on the OWF because..well why bother? I've seen plenty of 'facepalm posts' from my side as well.
[/quote]

Well. i just wanted to clear something up.
I was quoting the fact that you guys called my friend an idiot. I wasnt calling you an idiot. If I was trying to insult you I woulda called you a "big doodie-head" or something. Blame it on failed grammar, lol. But at least we agree on the facepalming.

And I could care less why RV feels the way he does. Just surprised to see it on a public forum. But oh well.

Edited by Hellbilly
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[quote name='Hellbilly' timestamp='1298639807' post='2644699']
Thom is my friend and my ally. I will defend him no matter what he says. I look at those posts and can see the point he was trying to make.
[/quote]

I think we all saw the point he was trying to make, that isn't the issue. The point (that GOONS/Goons are cowards) was just so baseless and out in left field that it caused many of us - including some on your side - to point out how far from reality it really is.

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1298640373' post='2644702']
RV is a miserable cretin, at best it likes to read it's own words at worst it's looking to ingratiate itself with GOONS. Ignore it, not worth getting excited about.
[/quote]

It seems more the case that he's just displeased with The Legion's complete unwillingness to battle Umbrella and MK and insistence instead on the overkill deployment on GOONS*.

[size="1"]*And no, I'm not complaining here about it before anyone misconstrues it as such.[/size]

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[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1298601915' post='2644374']
They're not rubbish when they decisively prove a point (which was originally that a far lower percentage of GOONS and our "uppers" are in PM than the Hopeless Coalition's, which doesn't support assertions that we're cowards). They are far more likely to be rubbish, however, when they're intended solely as such (as was the case with your presentation).
[/quote]

Stop reading inbetween the lines, i was just making a point statistics can be made to look good and bad, mine and the persons i altered slightly are both true statistics which you cannot argue as false as doing that would be arguing the others as i used their statistics with just an addition.


[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1298616087' post='2644535']
I'd venture to say that most of those GOONS in peace are simply taking a breather so they can come back out and fight better later, while most on your side in peace are in peace to ride out the war completely.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, as im not in with the group who cries "zomg they in peacemode"

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1298617042' post='2644553']
GOONS are infra-hugging hippies more than the GPA!

And as one of those GOONS in hippy, I can assure you COMPLETELY that it's because I am afraid. Terrified. I tremble at the thought of losing my infra. That is completely it. I am NEVER coming out of peace mode.

/You people are so ridiculous.
[/quote]

Another person reading between the lines as i couldnt careless about nations in peacemode or not, i just altered a statistic and they're both true but put across different results.

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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298651507' post='2644780']
Another person reading between the lines as i couldnt careless about nations in peacemode or not, i just altered a statistic and they're both true but put across different results.
[/quote]
How can it be "true" when you alter it?

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[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1298652030' post='2644785']
How can it be "true" when you alter it?
[/quote]

I altered it by making the addition of total nations in peacemode by adding up that persons numbers in peacemode, then making a percentage of that total in peacemode by alliance. Whereas beefspari used alliance numbers in war/peace to work out pecentages.

Same statistics different method.

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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298651507' post='2644780']
Stop reading inbetween the lines, i was just making a point statistics can be made to look good and bad, mine and the persons i altered slightly are both true statistics which you cannot argue as false as doing that would be arguing the others as i used their statistics with just an addition.
[/quote]

I never said the numbers were false, it's just that your presentation of them as well as your assertion that they can be shown different ways doesn't refute, let alone directly address, the point you were posting them in response to.

Beefspari pointed out that, percentage-wise, far fewer in GOONS are in PM than just about all the alliances in the Hopeless Coalition that we're facing, poking holes in Thom98's assertion that GOONS/Goons are cowards. You pointing out that, in total, we have more nations in PM than alliances we outnumber 30:1 or less has no bearing on the initial point.

Simple as that really. You made a tangential point, and nothing more.

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[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1298653057' post='2644797']
I never said the numbers were false, it's just that your presentation of them as well as your assertion that they can be shown different ways doesn't refute, let alone directly address, the point you were posting them in response to.[/quote]

Weldone hit the nail on the head, i presented them differently, same statistics but shown different.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1298653057' post='2644797']
Beefspari pointed out that, percentage-wise, far fewer in GOONS are in PM than just about all the alliances in the Hopeless Coalition that we're facing, poking holes in Thom98's assertion that GOONS/Goons are cowards. You pointing out that, in total, we have more nations in PM than alliances we outnumber 30:1 or less has no bearing on the initial point.

Simple as that really. You made a tangential point, and nothing more.
[/quote]

Excuse me you're the one going off on a tangent talking about things that have zero to do with your arguement (see reply top of post)

Edited by the rebel
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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298653602' post='2644806']
Weldone hit the nail on the head, i presented them differently, same statistics but shown different.
[/quote]
So what you're saying is that because you posted an irrelevant statistical analysis, all statistics are irrelevant? If so, please tell me in advance next time, so I can reserve the 30 minutes after I read your post for laughing at you, so it doesn't disrupt my schedule so much.

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[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1298653853' post='2644810']
So what you're saying is that because you posted an irrelevant statistical analysis, all statistics are irrelevant? If so, please tell me in advance next time, so I can reserve the 30 minutes after I read your post for laughing at you, so it doesn't disrupt my schedule so much.
[/quote]

Still a statistic whether irrelevent or not... while we on the subject of you laughing at me, ive been laughing ever since you put me on your EoG list because you got butthurt over my comments *passes Sardonic a tissue*

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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298654183' post='2644815']
Still a statistic whether irrelevent or not... while we on the subject of you laughing at me, ive been laughing ever since you put me on your EoG list because you got butthurt over my comments *passes Sardonic a tissue*
[/quote]
An accusation of crying on a party that took a bold action? How original.

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[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1298654615' post='2644817']
An accusation of crying on a party that took a bold action? How original.
[/quote]

Nope a person crying (you) for comments i made about your alliance on this forum during a global war, which got your knickers in a twist and put me on your EoG, hence the tissue comment.

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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298653602' post='2644806']
Weldone hit the nail on the head, i presented them differently, same statistics but shown different.
[/quote]

The way you presented them though hasn't actually proved anything relevant to the discussion being referenced.


[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298653602' post='2644806']
Excuse me you're the one going off on a tangent talking about things that have zero to do with your arguement (see reply top of post)
[/quote]

Yes, my response is tangential given I was responding to your point, which you're admitting here was tangential itself (since it doesn't and hasn't supported or refuted either Thom98's or Beefspari's conflicting arguments). Glad to see you're coming along here, albeit slowly, even if cogent thought still isn't quite there for you.

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[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1298640373' post='2644702']
RV is a miserable cretin, at best it likes to read it's own words at worst it's looking to ingratiate itself with GOONS. Ignore it, not worth getting excited about.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You heard it here first folks! If you think poorly of Legion it is only because you're trying to suck up to GOONS.[/color]

Edited by Rebel Virginia
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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1298662073' post='2644859']
[color="#0000FF"]You heard it here first folks! If you think poorly of Legion it is only because you're trying to suck up to GOONS.[/color]
[/quote]

I knew it! :mad:

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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1298662073' post='2644859']
[color="#0000FF"]You heard it here first folks! If you think poorly of Legion it is only because you're trying to suck up to GOONS.[/color]
[/quote]To be honest PapaJacky was way ahead of the curve in espousing this line of logic and should get credit for it.

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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298596078' post='2644301']
You see thats the thing about statistics they can be used for and against you, so now im going to reword your statistics and use them against you.

[b]Total nations in peacemode on both sides: 617[/b]
[b]percent breakdown of those in peace by alliance:[/b]

Legion: 199 peace (32.25%)
NPO: 198 peace (32.09%)
TPF: 54 peace (8.75%)
[b]GOONS: 43 peace (6.97%)[/b]
Invicta: 32 peace (5.19%)
Olympus: 24 peace (3.89%)
NSO: 19 peace (3.08%)
CoJ: 16 peace (2.59%)
ASU: 13 peace (2.11%)
NAC: 8 peace (1.3%)
TLR: 6 peace (0.97%)
64Digits: 4 peace (0.65%)
Sanitarnium: 1 peace (0.16%)

So from being one of the least in peacemode with your statistics, by mine you make up the 4th largest majority of those in peace, its amazing what you can do with alittle addition :awesome:
[/quote]
I like this analysis simply because of the way it skews the numbers.

GOONS is a large alliance with a small number of nations in peace mode (percentage-wise). The people fighting us are all small to large alliances with medium to high numbers of nations in peace mode. The way you're portraying it simply calls out GOONS for being a large alliance, nothing more. If we had 1,000,000 members and 1000 in peace mode we'd be really high up on your list. Even though the percentage would be incredibly small, with the overwhelming majority of our nations fighting. Compare to all the people below us. They're all really small alliances -- even if an alliance of 10 people had 100% of their nations in peace mode, they'd rank super low on your list, and therefore wouldn't be "cowards" even though literally their entire alliance is avoiding the war? Duhh, makes sense right?

Your chart is showing:
GOONS - Large alliance, few in peace
NPO, Legion, etc - Large alliance, tons in peace
Others - Small alliances, medium to lots in peace

Okay? So you skew the numbers to make GOONS look bad based entirely on how many total members we have? Good job?

Edited by Beefspari
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[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1298596078' post='2644301']
You see thats the thing about statistics they can be used for and against you, so now im going to reword your statistics and use them against you.

[b]Total nations in peacemode on both sides: 617[/b]
[b]percent breakdown of those in peace by alliance:[/b]

Legion: 199 peace (32.25%)
NPO: 198 peace (32.09%)
TPF: 54 peace (8.75%)
[b]GOONS: 43 peace (6.97%)[/b]
Invicta: 32 peace (5.19%)
Olympus: 24 peace (3.89%)
NSO: 19 peace (3.08%)
CoJ: 16 peace (2.59%)
ASU: 13 peace (2.11%)
NAC: 8 peace (1.3%)
TLR: 6 peace (0.97%)
64Digits: 4 peace (0.65%)
Sanitarnium: 1 peace (0.16%)

So from being one of the least in peacemode with your statistics, by mine you make up the 4th largest majority of those in peace, its amazing what you can do with alittle addition :awesome:
[/quote]
what? these don't make any sense. how big is each 'side?' all you've done is show who from each incomplete 'side' isn't pulling their weight, without telling us how much of each 'side' each alliance takes up. assuming you're using gopher's stats, then the goons take up 9% of our 'side' so their peacemode stats show their actually doing more than most alliances on our side. legion, on the other hand, takes up 9% of the other side's total nation count, but 33% of their members in PM (according to your stats, I don't know what numbers you're using).

so honestly, your own, incomplete and slanted, stats work against you.

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