Top 25 Disbanded Alliances/Old Coots' Weekly Letters

[WcaesarD]

Nice to see ASC get a mention at least, but would've liked to see em crack the top 25. After looking over the list it seems to me that you've given more recent disbandments a bit more of a bump, but I could be wrong. I'll be looking forward to reading your reasons.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1297922930' post='2636424']
You guys don't think FnKa was a good/great alliance? Leave importance out of this. I repeat, you guys don't think FnKa was a good/great alliance?
[/quote]
It was a fun alliance to be in, and I certainly enjoyed my year or so there, but I don't think we were an important alliance who were very relevant.

[Kevanovia]

*Edited in the summary/reasoning for Dark Evolution

I skipped FoB for now. I have made several attempts to find the history of FoB from the point of view of an original founder or someone who was part of it, however I have been unsuccessful thus far. I do not know much about their earlier days. So if you know a lot about their formation and their alliance, I would appreciate if you could spend some time to go over their history with me.

Thanks!

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

I was in Genmay from start to finish, and if you want more insight, I'd be happy to provide it.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1298061756' post='2637715']
*Edited in the summary/reasoning for Dark Evolution

I skipped FoB for now. I have made several attempts to find the history of FoB from the point of view of an original founder or someone who was part of it, however I have been unsuccessful thus far. I do not know much about their earlier days. So if you know a lot about their formation and their alliance, I would appreciate if you could spend some time to go over their history with me.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Wait...so you mean to tell me you really don't know anything about the alliance and yet you put them in your top 25 alliances?

[Scorponok]

[quote]Organized Nations of Superiority(ONOS)[/quote]

Good times!

[Garrow]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1298104884' post='2638271']
Wait...so you mean to tell me you really don't know anything about the alliance and yet you put them in your top 25 alliances?
[/quote]

No, he means to tell you he was unsuccessful in finding a summary of their alliance from a founder/original member. He's looking for an introspective point of view.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Garrow

[tarman2010]

I love the mention of Atlantis and TR. Both were great alliances with some great people.

[Lejeune]

Eh, when it comes to actually ranking them one above another, its pretty trivial. Since there really isn't any quantitative way to determine which ones were greater in terms of political influence.

[Believland]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1298104884' post='2638271']
Wait...so you mean to tell me you really don't know anything about the alliance and yet you put them in your top 25 alliances?
[/quote]
This man stole my idea. Oh hey, nice to see you're in Ronin you ******

[quote name='Garrow' timestamp='1298178065' post='2639116']
No, he means to tell you he was unsuccessful in finding a summary of their alliance from a founder/original member. He's looking for an introspective point of view.
[/quote]

Oh well he can ask me. I was the biggest backer of it in LX

Edit: Two smugs is ddogish

Edited February 20, 2011 by Believland

[potato]

[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1298061756' post='2637715']
*Edited in the summary/reasoning for Dark Evolution

I skipped FoB for now. I have made several attempts to find the history of FoB from the point of view of an original founder or someone who was part of it, however I have been unsuccessful thus far. I do not know much about their earlier days. So if you know a lot about their formation and their alliance, I would appreciate if you could spend some time to go over their history with me.

Thanks!
[/quote]

There's a bunch in MK/Athens/PC.

[Land of True Israel]

I was always quite fond of Atlantis.

[Einswald]

[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1297838873' post='2635398']
I did leave a certain level of bias out of it. I hate GOONS and other UJW alliances with a passion, and yet they are high on the list. I gave NoR an honorable mention after completing my list for the reason that you stated. (I already have my reasons for picking each alliance in each spot. Originally I was gonna leave NoR off the list completely due to my personal dislike for them, but at least decided to add them to the list (honorable mention) after I had all of my reasoning sorted out. (I realized my mistake after I figured out what my list was) NoR's crime was not as bad as /b/'s, but that's the reason why they are off the list. Right or wrong.)
[/quote]

Well you sound impartial, glad you put this together

[Desperado]

Please amend this list and place eXodus as your #1.

[img]http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8355/miks074.jpg[/img]

Edited February 23, 2011 by Desperado

[Timmmehhh]

My top 10, I am going to include those who reformed.

1. GOONS, this one is easy, they were very influential and even got a hold of the #1 spot.
2. NAAC, leader of AEGIS
3. LUE, important AEGIS alliance
4. \m/,quite influential. Known for their raiding and bling bling.
5. Nordreich WUT, Norway thing, commie wars
6. VE, WUT / Viricide
7. Genmay WUT / UJP , from their ashes Umbrella was born.
8. GGA, WUT / One Vision
9. VOX, ZOG's senaterun was epic, it was disappointing to see that they chose to disband when the fighting with NPO started. They made some decent propaganda though.
10. Atlantis, Their TPF rivalry was fun.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Timmehhh

[Kzoppistan]

Sweet! Zenith got an honorable mention- we were !@#$@#$ awesome!

Great concept, Kev, I'm lovin' it! Keep up the great work!

[Rafael Nadal]

Vanguard doesn't need to be on the list, because that's just LUE pluralism. Then again, we're that good, we probably deserve two spots.

But seriously, at least it's a somewhat interesting topic.

1. GOONS
2. LUE
3. NAAC
4. Spot saved for NPO ( )
5. VE? Vox? Around here, you can pick from any number of disbandments.

[Kevanovia]

I will be unable to finish this newsletter. My sincerest apologies to everyone looking forward to it. (Due to lack of material to base summary of alliances on/my focus on Planet Bob is elsewhere)

[Denial]

LUE is in its rightful place as #1. It's also nice to see that Vanguard got a huge amount of appreciation in this topic; appreciation that I believe is wholly deserved. The remainder of the rankings are an absolute mess, really.


[list]
[*] I must agree with several others in this topic that Vox is placed far too highly in the original rankings. They certainly played a significant role in turning public sentiment against the Hegemony, but were by no means some sort of vanguard of the Karma revolution. I'd put them at #4.
[*] IAA doesn't deserve to be in the top 10, let alone the top 5.
[*] GOONS need to be placed higher, at #3 behind LUE and NAAC. They'd receive a higher score if it wasn't for the fact that they essentially existed within an Order-defined paradigm for much of their existence, only breaking away and becoming truly influential in the lead-up to and during the Unjust Path era.
[*] MDC never really did anything. They were just... there... a little like MHA today, but no where near as large.
[*] I really have no idea what FnKa did that was ever of any value.
[*] Browncoats were a joke.
[*] ONOS could arguably be much higher, due to the history with GUARD, as well as being the first target of Pacifica et al's enemy deprivation syndrome following the Great Wars.
[*] Anyone that was around for 2006 knows that ICP and Nordreich need to be much higher.
[*] Dark Evolution was nothing more than a footnote in Cyberverse history.
[*] As much as I liked FoB, I'd put TDSM8 ahead of them.
[*] The Order of Halsa? You've got to be kidding. I'd bet the vast majority of people haven't even heard of them. Entirely irrelevant.
[/list]
My top ten would be:

[list=1]
[*] LUE
[*] NAAC
[*] GOONS
[*] Vox Populi
[*] GGA
[*] VE
[*] Nordreich
[*] Vanguard
[*] ONOS
[*] ICP
[/list]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1297831693' post='2635215']
What did FnKa do that was so amazing? I must be missing something here.

It's mostly a good list, but I definitely think old GOONS, LUE, and NAAC should be rounding out the top 3. People that weren't around for GOONS, man they were a sight to behold. [b]Their nuke count before the days of manhattan projects were a sight to behold,[/b] and every single one of their policies were controversial. Plus they had the best head of military that any alliance has ever had.
[/quote]
In the Great War era, their nuke count paled in comparison to both NAAC and LUE, who were similarly-sized alliances. Hence why The League had a clear nuclear advantage going into the Second Great War; it is just a shame that the geniuses running some of LUE's allies decided not to use that advantage in order to pander to Legion/ODN (who were never going to join the conflict anyway).

[Incitatus]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1299459134' post='2654845']
LUE is in its rightful place as #1. It's also nice to see that Vanguard got a huge amount of appreciation in this topic; appreciation that I believe is wholly deserved. The remainder of the rankings are an absolute mess, really.[/quote]

I'll bite. Vanguard wasn't very high due to the relationship of Vanguard and MK. You guys had the same goals (MK/Vanguard) and the same background. It's not a coincidence that you "fine folk" merged with MK. MK + Vanguard = LUEnited spirit. By giving the #1 spot to LUE, and with MK still kicking...Vanguard didn't need to be ranked much higher.


[quote][*] IAA doesn't deserve to be in the top 10, let alone the top 5.[/quote]
They are ranked so high due to them being the only alliance in history to sacrifice themselves for an ally during a war that could not have possibly been won. That is why they deserved the high rank of #5.

[quote][*] MDC never really did anything. They were just... there... a little like MHA today, but no where near as large.[/quote]
They were combined with TAGA. TAGA attempted the first large scale merge in Planet Bob. That justifies a high ranking.

[quote][*] I really have no idea what FnKa did that was ever of any value.[/quote]
Nothing extraordinary, they were however a prime example of a good alliance of 'that size'. There have been several alliances that fit the type of alliance that FnKa was, and these alliances play a significant role on Bob. FnKa is ranked so high to represent these alliances.

[quote][*] Browncoats were a joke.[/quote]
See above. They were also very vocal in the OWF, one of the first alliances of small size to be very close knit (the community lasted years after the disbandment) and be politically active.

[quote][*] ONOS could arguably be much higher, due to the history with GUARD, as well as being the first target of Pacifica et al's enemy deprivation syndrome following the Great Wars.[/quote]
This is an acceptable argument. *tips hat*

[quote][*] Anyone that was around for 2006 knows that ICP and Nordreich need to be much higher.[/quote]
As someone who was around in 2006, I could very easily agree with you. However, the game took a different route once GOONS came into play and that route leads to where we are today. It would be awesome if ICP had as big of an affect on CN as GOONS did. If they did, perhaps we wouldn't lose brain cells when breathing in Bob's now-tainted air. GOONS, effectively tainting Bob's atmosphere since 2007.


[quote][*] Dark Evolution was nothing more than a footnote in Cyberverse history.[/quote]
The first time 4+ alliances came together to form an alliance on a large scale.

[quote][*] The Order of Halsa? You've got to be kidding. I'd bet the vast majority of people haven't even heard of them. Entirely irrelevant.[/quote]
See FnKa. These type of alliances deserved 2-3 spots on the list. Halsa was a good one to represent these alliances.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Incitatus

[Banksy]

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='2655296']
I'll bite. Vanguard wasn't very high due to the relationship of Vanguard and MK. You guys had the same goals (MK/Vanguard) and the same background. It's not a coincidence that you "fine folk" merged with MK. MK + Vanguard = LUEnited spirit. By giving the #1 spot to LUE, and with MK still kicking...Vanguard didn't need to be ranked much higher.[/quote]
eh? vanguard and mk weren't allied for most(?) of vanguard's existence, even if they had similar origins. vanguard was able to work within the international system to a far greater extent than mk did (or could). vanguard had a very independent policy of mk until late 2009 when its activity slumped and it existed within c&g rather than a separate power (although i'm sure denial will have greater insight into that).

@ the LUE comments, mk and vanguard were created as a reaction to LUE's uncaring attitude and inactivity, which constrained the alliance from achieving the goals of its leadership. they were very different alliances to LUE. it's like saying GGA, MOON and Genesis are the same alliance because they all come from the ODN.

@ IAA - no, look at alliances such as TDSM8, who did the same. making a martyr of yourself doesn't make you competent, and iaa were far from competent. if the war didn't kill them, inactivity would have.

@ FnKA - their only notable achievements were merging into MOON, and then deciding it was a bad idea and (again) martyring themselves. self harm is not indicative of a good alliance.

@ browncoats - xfd

@ your elevation of merged alliances - it seems rather contradictory that you chide vanguard for its merge into mk, and yet give no-names like taga, dark evolution and mdc an exalted status because of their mergers. these are alliances whose only contribution to the planet was no longer existing, whereas an alliance like vanguard had a strong history of political and statistical prominence for an extended period of time.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Banksy

[tblindparrot]

The best part about the Obsidian Entente was Egore inviting me into the private chat, then leaking screenshots of it to the WUT leaders at the time and he had no idea who did it

[Denial]

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='2655296']
I'll bite. Vanguard wasn't very high due to the relationship of Vanguard and MK. You guys had the same goals (MK/Vanguard) and the same background. It's not a coincidence that you "fine folk" merged with MK. MK + Vanguard = LUEnited spirit. By giving the #1 spot to LUE, and with MK still kicking...Vanguard didn't need to be ranked much higher.[/quote]
This demonstrates an incredibly limited knowledge of Cyberverse history, but in particular the realities surrounding the two alliances you are attempting to malign. To begin with, Vanguard and Mushroom Kingdom maintained fiercely independent foreign policies for the majority of their existence, owing to a particular rivalry that was present between the two alliances in the first 18 months of life (the roots of which can largely be brought back to the nature in which MK was founded - that is, under the shield of the original GOONS). Moreover, as Banksy has stated, Vanguard was able to act with much more freedom in regards to foreign policy and grand strategy as a result of MK being blacklisted by Pacifica. The only common feature that anyone could highlight between Vanguard and MK prior to their uniting under the C&G banner would be the desire to topple NPO, but even that wavered at times within the MK leadership in early days (but not amongst the membership).

What you fail to realise is that Vanguard played a critical role both in the lead-up to and during the Karma War. It was Vanguard that tied together the once rivalrous spheres of Super Friends, Complaints and Grievances, Stickmen, and the OV/VE grouping. There was no other alliance whose foreign policy had achieved that, and achieved it with purpose and speed. Vanguard had the blueprint for a core of the Karma forces assembled by December 2008, a good six months before the war broke out; no treaty changes were made. In essence, we were amongst the trend setters. This is clearly evident by the reliance upon Vanguard treaties for entry into the war by many other groups. It is true, by this time, MK and Vanguard had similar goals, but had come at them from different angles. Whereas Vanguard had assembled the aforementioned blocs, MK had managed to attain treaties with, and significant sway with, several Citadel alliances. It is for this reason that Vanguard and Mushroom Kingdom first united and got past former animosity. During the Karma War itself, Vanguard not only had the best opening blitz of the Pacifican front (and second best in the entire war), the fact that we had consistently rated amongst the top of the Cyberverse in terms of efficiency, wonders per member, nuclear weapons per member, and so on, allowed us to be one of the most damaging alliances while limiting the hit we took ourselves.

What I have said above is just in regards to the Karma War. You can also look at our roles in the noCB War (read: the war on Purple), the BiPolar War, and our consistent outspoken nature that had us as a prime target of the Hegemony whilst that they were at their peak. Not to mention the rivalries that such a nature created, between Vanguard and Valhalla, TOP, TPF and NPO to name just a few. No other alliance dared to speak out as much as we did, up until we were joined by Vox (of which, Doitzel and Starfox have both given us immense credit in regards to our public campaign against the Hegemony).


[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='2655296']
They are ranked so high due to them being the only alliance in history to sacrifice themselves for an ally during a war that could not have possibly been won. That is why they deserved the high rank of #5.[/quote]
That's not even half true.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='2655296']
They were combined with TAGA. TAGA attempted the first large scale merge in Planet Bob. That justifies a high ranking.[/quote]
No, not really. You say this as if merging is some sort of accomplishment (after previously using it as a point of derision towards MK and Vanguard, I might add). The fact of the matter is that neither TAGA or MDC had the slightest impact upon the Cyberverse. Not only that, both alliances were entirely incompetent when it comes to performance; MDC, for example, was regularly insulted even amongst its own allies!

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='26552]
Nothing extraordinary, they were however a prime example of a good alliance of 'that size'. There have been several alliances that fit the type of alliance that FnKa was, and these alliances play a significant role on Bob. FnKa is ranked so high to represent these alliances.[/quote]
So, what you're essentially saying is "FnKa are on the list because FnKa are on the list." You've not given one single reason why they deserve a position on the list, outside of pointing out they existed.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='26552]
See above. They were also very vocal in the OWF, one of the first alliances of small size to be very close knit (the community lasted years after the disbandment) and be politically active.[/quote]
Actually, no, look up alliances of 2006 and you'll find the first alliances of "small size to be very close knit... and be politically active". What I find funny is that what you have said here can be applied to Vanguard (and, in contrast to Browncoats, Vanguard actually achieved a hell of a lot politically), as well as half of those alliances currently sitting in the honorable mentions section.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='26552]
As someone who was around in 2006, I could very easily agree with you. However, the game took a different route once GOONS came into play and that route leads to where we are today. It would be awesome if ICP had as big of an affect on CN as GOONS did. If they did, perhaps we wouldn't lose brain cells when breathing in Bob's now-tainted air. GOONS, effectively tainting Bob's atmosphere since 2007.[/quote]
I really don't see how you incorporated references to GOONS ruining the world in a discussion of ICP and Nordreich. Firstly, GOONS existed within the Order-defined paradigm of that side of the web up until the Great War era concluded. It was not until the lead-up to the formation of the Unjust Path that GOONS had a genuine influence - influence free of Pacifican interference - on Cyberverse politics. What ICP and Nordreich are deserving of credit for is - even though it annoyed both sides of the web at the time - the incessant 'communism vs fascism' skirmishes/wars of 2006 and 2007. One of these ideological conflicts almost brought about the Second Great War, as LUE and NAAC purposely let leak that they were going to intervene on behalf of ICP, which provoked Nordreich's allies to push Nordreich into to seeking peace immediately. This also set into stone the alignment of the 'communist' alliances with the LUE group, and the 'fascist' alliances with the NPO side.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='26552]
The first time 4+ alliances came together to form an alliance on a large scale.[/quote]
... And did absolutely nothing except fall apart shortly afterwards.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299492356' post='26552]
See FnKa. These type of alliances deserved 2-3 spots on the list. Halsa was a good one to represent these alliances.[/quote]
By "these type of alliances", do you mean entirely irrelevant and ineffectual?

Edited March 8, 2011 by Denial

[supercoolyellow]

I open this thread, and wonder why people aren't mentioning Gre, then realize they haven't disbanded, I get on a few days later, and this all happens again.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1299541526' post='2655895'](and second best in the entire war)
[/quote]
Who beat you out? I could have sworn you had the best.