Follow the White Light

[Roadie]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1297543131' post='2630552']
It's self-evident that you guys are too dumb to have an overall coalition co-ordination and planning group? Honestly, I gave you more credit than that. This doesn't really have much to do with the political landscape, [b]except it was the steps towards merging your power spheres that maybe persuaded Doomhouse they needed to hit[/b] – both of your spheres are in a war against groups of people who are tied to each other and you need to be coordinating to make the best of your situation.
[/quote]

This seems to be the largest misconception out there right now. And I do agree that this is why DH felt they needed to attack. The Legion treaties didn't seem to concern too many people for whatever reason. Maybe because one was an odp or maybe they just lolegioned it off. When STA and TPF signed, it seemed to convinced a lot of people that both of the Orders spheres were going to combine when in fact that treaty did not, and was never intended to do that. There was no larger intentions for that treaty. STA has no interest in being a major driver of politics and TPF also wants nothing to do with driving politics. It was signed in spite of what everyone knew would appear to be to the other side. The exact scenario that played out was in fact discussed before it was signed. Both alliances knew there was a likelihood of one being used as trap to draw in the other Order. Never for a moment though was bringing together the Orders the intent or even a desire. Evidence of that can be seen by both STA' willingness to get pinned under a mountain of NS and still not requesting that TPF join and that neither TPF nor NPO were party to any of the war planning in the VE/Polar war.

As to the point of coordination, all I can really say is while I agree with you that it may have been a better way to go abouts the war, there's two points that are perhaps more important. A: The end results would be the same either way, so coordination is mostly irrelevant and B: The lack of coordination further highlites the total lack of relations between the Orders and shows yet more proof that DoomHouses concerns were unfounded and the attack stems simply from the "Can't sleep. NPO will roll me" mentality.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Roadie

[Lord Cyvole]

I have been friends with the Order almost since Pantalleria rose as an independent nation so many years ago. I have been allied in the first and second degree since that time. And I have never fought alongside them. It has been far too long, my friends. o7

[Teddyyo]

Like TOOL.

Don't like !@#$%^&* talk about DoW/DoS. It's not that important, guys. Let them have their fun.

You guys just ignore the hating, some of us are just a [i]little[/i] too srs business about the war right now.

[Anhur]

I don't know a lot about your alliance, but I know we share some of the best allies in the game! Fight well, TOOL!
o/TPF
o/TOOL

[KainIIIC]

Great show TOOL. TPF is lucky to have allies like you.

[Cager]

It will be fun to accept your surrender as well as TPF's. Or maybe we won't. I hope it's the latter.

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1297545790' post='2630578']
Well, no. Judging by the fact you can't even disband yourself, apparently TOOL can't do that.
[/quote]

Well, no. Judging by the fact that TOOL determined its own outcome, apparently TOOL can do that.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1297550532' post='2630630']
It will be fun to accept your surrender as well as TPF's. Or maybe we won't. I hope it's the latter.
[/quote]

You so hard. I'm sure TOOL is just shivering in their little boots.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1297523522' post='2630325']
It was part of your agenda.
[/quote]

Of course! I really do need to find that agenda...

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1297546884' post='2630591']
This seems to be the largest misconception out there right now. And I do agree that this is why DH felt they needed to attack. The Legion treaties didn't seem to concern too many people for whatever reason. Maybe because one was an odp or maybe they just lolegioned it off. When STA and TPF signed, it seemed to convinced a lot of people that both of the Orders spheres were going to combine when in fact that treaty did not, and was never intended to do that. There was no larger intentions for that treaty. STA has no interest in being a major driver of politics and TPF also wants nothing to do with driving politics. It was signed in spite of what everyone knew would appear to be to the other side. The exact scenario that played out was in fact discussed before it was signed. Both alliances knew there was a likelihood of one being used as trap to draw in the other Order. Never for a moment though was bringing together the Orders the intent or even a desire. Evidence of that can be seen by both STA' willingness to get pinned under a mountain of NS and still not requesting that TPF join and that neither TPF nor NPO were party to any of the war planning in the VE/Polar war.

As to the point of coordination, all I can really say is while I agree with you that it may have been a better way to go abouts the war, there's two points that are perhaps more important. A: The end results would be the same either way, so coordination is mostly irrelevant and B: The lack of coordination further highlites the total lack of relations between the Orders and shows yet more proof that DoomHouses concerns were unfounded and the attack stems simply from the "Can't sleep. NPO will roll me" mentality.
[/quote]

Don't mind Bob. He had this big old conspiracy all worked out. But, now he realises it was a figment of his imagination so he has to lash out and call everyone stupid to keep his street cred with his Cybernations hardmen buddies. Don't be too harsh on him, he just desperately needs to feel like he is part of the gang. He'll say anything nowadays to get his hair ruffled by someone in MK or GOONS. Poor Bob, he used to have a mind of his own.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Tygaland

[Nick1a]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297553158' post='2630655']
Don't mind Bob. He had this big old conspiracy all worked out. But, now he realises it was a figment of his imagination so he has to lash out and call everyone stupid to keep his street cred with his Cybernations hardmen buddies. Don't be too harsh on him, he just desperately needs to feel like he is part of the gang. He'll say anything nowadays to get his hair ruffled by someone in MK or GOONS. Poor Bob, he used to have a mind of his own.
[/quote]


That was a solid ad hominem.

[Cager]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1297551374' post='2630638']
You so hard. I'm sure TOOL is just shivering in their little boots.
[/quote]


I am hard. I run this town.

[Lazarus Long]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1297546884' post='2630591']
This seems to be the largest misconception out there right now. And I do agree that this is why DH felt they needed to attack. The Legion treaties didn't seem to concern too many people for whatever reason. Maybe because one was an odp or maybe they just lolegioned it off. When STA and TPF signed, it seemed to convinced a lot of people that both of the Orders spheres were going to combine when in fact that treaty did not, and was never intended to do that. There was no larger intentions for that treaty. STA has no interest in being a major driver of politics and TPF also wants nothing to do with driving politics. It was signed in spite of what everyone knew would appear to be to the other side. The exact scenario that played out was in fact discussed before it was signed. Both alliances knew there was a likelihood of one being used as trap to draw in the other Order. Never for a moment though was bringing together the Orders the intent or even a desire. Evidence of that can be seen by both STA' willingness to get pinned under a mountain of NS and still not requesting that TPF join and that neither TPF nor NPO were party to any of the war planning in the VE/Polar war.

As to the point of coordination, all I can really say is while I agree with you that it may have been a better way to go abouts the war, there's two points that are perhaps more important. A: The end results would be the same either way, so coordination is mostly irrelevant and B: The lack of coordination further highlites the total lack of relations between the Orders and shows yet more proof that DoomHouses concerns were unfounded and the attack stems simply from the "Can't sleep. NPO will roll me" mentality.
[/quote]

You forget the people that WERE rolled by NPO and their surrogates.

I've been rolled by them or their puppets a few times. Pardon me for ignoring their discomfort. I relish it, it's a cold dish and I savor it.

I'd be content to fight Pacifica for the rest of my life. In fact, I have. And I'll continue to.

My contempt for Pacifica knows no bounds. I will fight them till they are gone.

I'm only one person and not UMB .gov. But Pacifica can burn IMHO. Once I'm out of anarchy I'll find another Pacifican nation poking their head out of peace mode. And I'll burn it down too.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297553158' post='2630655']
Don't mind Bob. He had this big old conspiracy all worked out. But, now he realises it was a figment of his imagination so he has to lash out and call everyone stupid to keep his street cred with his Cybernations hardmen buddies. Don't be too harsh on him, he just desperately needs to feel like he is part of the gang. He'll say anything nowadays to get his hair ruffled by someone in MK or GOONS. Poor Bob, he used to have a mind of his own.
[/quote]

He's far, far more intelligent than you are, and he doesn't suffer from the particular sort of delusion you do.

I'll take his words over yours any day.

[Bob Janova]

I don't see how it's a conspiracy theory to expect people in two connected power spheres to actually work together when they're both under attack, but okay, whatever. Considering I've been pretty public about saying I don't like the attack on NPO you are just trying to take totally unfounded cheap shots at me. All the radiation poisoning we're giving you over at STA must be affecting your thought process.

[quote]A: The end results would be the same either way, so coordination is mostly irrelevant[/quote]
In terms of win or lose, yes, I agree. But the total NS available at the start was fairly even (about 1.5:1 I think) and a coordinated defence and military competence could have put a lot more pressure on aggressor aliances and get the core alliances (the ones you're supposedly entering the war to help, either Polar or Pacific depending on which part of the war you're in) better terms or quicker peace than they're likely to get now.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Lazarus Long' timestamp='1297553538' post='2630661']
You forget the people that WERE rolled by NPO and their surrogates.

I've been rolled by them or their puppets a few times. Pardon me for ignoring their discomfort. I relish it, it's a cold dish and I savor it.

I'd be content to fight Pacifica for the rest of my life. In fact, I have. And I'll continue to.

My contempt for Pacifica knows no bounds. I will fight them till they are gone.

I'm only one person and not UMB .gov. But Pacifica can burn IMHO. Once I'm out of anarchy I'll find another Pacifican nation poking their head out of peace mode. And I'll burn it down too.
[/quote]
All of this talk about perma war with Pacifica. Why not just perma war against the whole ex-hegemony? The Cyberverse can finally get true revenge with perma war against the evil forces of NPO, the Continuum, One Vision, Super Friends, Poseidon, Citadel, and BLEU. ODN, VE, and everyother non-CnG/no Vision alliance too.

Death to the Hegemony!

Edited February 13, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[nippy]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1297551374' post='2630638']
You so hard. I'm sure TOOL is just shivering in their little boots.
[/quote]


I haven't figured out whether I like you on both sides or not....it does certainly provide for some rather weird feelings. You're like the dirty girl that I just can't let go of.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1297546424' post='2630586']
Yes, we do decide whether we disband or not. The members decide, not you. You can't literally force us to disband when that will always be the members' choice. It is amusing to see big talk claiming that you can though. You can war us for as long as your heart desires, sure, but you can't force us to disband. Good luck with that.
[/quote]
Hmm? Where did I claim I can disband TOOL? Personally, I couldn't care less if you survived.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Nick1a' timestamp='1297553466' post='2630658']
That was a solid ad hominem.
[/quote]

Not really, just a summary of why he says what he says. I've already pointed out the erroneous assumptions in his argument and all he had left was to call us stupid because his paranoid conspiracy theory turned out to be just that.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1297553820' post='2630666']
I don't see how it's a conspiracy theory to expect people in two connected power spheres to actually work together when they're both under attack, but okay, whatever. Considering I've been pretty public about saying I don't like the attack on NPO you are just trying to take totally unfounded cheap shots at me. All the radiation poisoning we're giving you over at STA must be affecting your thought process.
[/quote]

Except the "power spheres" were not connected in any real way. Just as a number of people have told you. The whole premise of your argument doesn't exist, yet, you keeping going on as if it does. You assumed the STA-TPF treaty was to merge NPO and NpO's spheres together. You assumed wrong.

[quote name='Crymson']
I'll take his words over yours any day.
[/quote]

You say that like it is a bad thing. You disagreeing with me only gives my words more credence.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Tygaland

[bzelger]

Good luck, TOOL.

[Hyperion321]

Every ounce of me wants to hit TOOL just for the sake of preserving tradition.

[Weirdgus]

Even the smallest of lights still shines in the deep darkness!


o/ TOOL
Forever the Light !

[Roadie]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1297553820' post='2630666']
In terms of win or lose, yes, I agree. But the total NS available at the start was fairly even (about 1.5:1 I think) and a coordinated defence and military competence could have put a lot more pressure on aggressor aliances and get the core alliances (the ones you're supposedly entering the war to help, either Polar or Pacific depending on which part of the war you're in) better terms or quicker peace than they're likely to get now.
[/quote]

I'm not part of the planning, but when I looked at the NS, it wasn't the total NS that caught my attention, but where it was concentrated between the two sides. On the TPF side, far more of that NS was down in the mid-low range and on the DH side it was heavily concentrated higher up. Where we have relatively little NS. I contend that sending out the fewer nations we had in the higher NS range would have lead to a quick slaughter of those ranges which would quickly lead to less pressure on DH, not more. The way things are now things can be drawn out. While it won't buy us a victory, it will buy us time. And I suspect time is worth more at this point than what small amount of additional NS we would have blown up.

[Bob Janova]

Tyga, I know you're not this dense. Firstly, the STA and Legion treaties recently absolutely [i]did[/i] connect the power spheres, whether that was the intention or not. But on a much more obvious note, you're connected because you're both being attacked at the same time by people from broadly the same group. You can keep shouting 'separate war! separate war!' but when peace terms are being signed keeping people out of both halves, alliances are fighting fronts in both parts and there is at least a bit of coordination across them, the facts are against you.

Roadie, thanks for discussing the matter rationally and calmly . I still don't think I'd have done things the same way as your side has done, but that's fine.