Follow the White Light

[BamaBuc]

[quote name='VenetianBlind' timestamp='1297574153' post='2630941']
Hi! Thank you for the targets, and good luck.



Or their MDoAP with us?
[/quote]
Y'all have fun.

That would work too. *headdesk*

-Bama

[Tygaland]

[quote name='DogeWilliam' timestamp='1297575211' post='2630951']
I like your honesty. Though I think the point is that, even though there was no mutual goal before, the smart thing to do would be to coordinate no matter what. But this is such a cluster $%&@ I would hate to be the one doing it.
[/quote]

Coordination just is not possible as so many of the alliances on our side do not share the same goal. Defending the Orders is not the goal of anyone as far as I can see. NpO's allies are defending the NpO, NPO's allies are defending the NPO. Others on our side that do not fall into those categories are defending allies who are allies of one of the Orders. Our "side" is not one of design but of chance. The way the wars were declared created two separate wars from the defensive perspective. Many on our side are also in no danger of being "killed" because most of those on the periphery are getting light terms or white peace to remove themselves from the conflict. I'm not sure what could be said or done to coax those alliances into risking death and coordinating to defend an alliance or alliances that they don't care about.

The fact that peace terms have been issued stating those surrendering may not join either war is purely a product of which side is offering the terms. Your side of the war considers the current conflict/s one war because of the way it went down for your alliances and therefore they will ask that those surrendering sit out both fronts. That in itself does not mean those on our side of the conflict/s see the wars as a single conflict and this is reflected in the way our side has handled the war.

[DDOlla]

the light left us in the dark...

/me sobs

[the dakotans]

[quote name='DDOlla' timestamp='1297576007' post='2630957']
the light left us in the dark...

/me sobs
[/quote]


I'll bring a lamp around. I've got one on the desk, but It's too bulky. Should fix your problem..... also it's red

[DDOlla]

[quote name='the dakotans' timestamp='1297576625' post='2630966']
I'll bring a lamp around. I've got one on the desk, but It's too bulky. Should fix your problem..... also it's red
[/quote]


ooo red! purty...

I guess it's not that bad, now I has some light!

Best of luck TOOL, we better upgrade before next war!

<3 TOOL!

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297575989' post='2630956']
The fact that peace terms have been issued stating those surrendering may not join either war is purely a product of which side is offering the terms. Your side of the war considers the current conflict/s one war because of the way it went down for your alliances and therefore they will ask that those surrendering sit out both fronts. That in itself does not mean those on our side of the conflict/s see the wars as a single conflict and this is reflected in the way our side has handled the war.
[/quote]
Good point well made.
[quote]
Many on our side are also in no danger of being "killed" because most of those on the periphery are getting light terms or white peace to remove themselves from the conflict. I'm not sure what could be said or done to coax those alliances into risking death and coordinating to defend an alliance or alliances that they don't care about.[/quote]
I'd have thought there would have been some alliances playing the "look how terrible the world will become if PB are successful" card as they do on these forums.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297520358' post='2630299']
The NpO has five years or so of history and the main person behind their Bi-Polar actions is not in charge anymore.
[/quote]
Grub is still a member of the New Polar Order, still protected against attacks, and still an emperor emeritus. They support his actions in the most emphatic way possible: they protect his nation with their strength.

If they really wanted to say they do not support Grub, removing him from the alliance would do it.

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1297540069' post='2630519']
btw, didn't TPF attack MK? Why did TOOL enter on a defensive clause?
[/quote]
No, TPF attacked GOONS; MK countered TPF.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297560437' post='2630758']
This is PB getting bored and rolling someone they really don't like, actually. It's not part of some grand plan to retain power.
[/quote]
When you have a hegemonic bloc, in order to preserve their hegemony they have to convince their membership that there is an outside threat that must be dealt with. Else boredom will inevitably cause them to turn on each other, leading to wars like the Unjust War (WUT splitting) and Karma (Continuum splitting).

In the peak of hegemony, you get wars like GATO-1V and NPO-Doomhouse.

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1297577023' post='2630969']
I'd have thought there would have been some alliances playing the "look how terrible the world will become if PB are successful" card as they do on these forums.
[/quote]
Most alliances do not care about what happens to the world; they just care about their own small part of it.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1297577023' post='2630969']
I'd have thought there would have been some alliances playing the "look how terrible the world will become if PB are successful" card as they do on these forums.
[/quote]

There may well have been, but that doesn't mean anyone cares or listens.

[quote name='Haflinger']
Grub is still a member of the New Polar Order, still protected against attacks, and still an emperor emeritus. They support his actions in the most emphatic way possible: they protect his nation with their strength.

If they really wanted to say they do not support Grub, removing him from the alliance would do it.
[/quote]

People are capable of not supporting an action a person makes while still maintaining a friendship with that person. Regardless of where Grub is or isn't right now, the fact remains that he is not Emperor and therefore is not making any decisions with respect to Polar's activities during this conflict. This means that your comments remain as the weak cheapshot at Polar that they were. You can be pissed off with Grub all you like but to try and tell me that what happened in Bi-polar is the norm for that alliance is just crap.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Tygaland

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297577681' post='2630979']
People are capable of not supporting an action a person makes while still maintaining a friendship with that person. Regardless of where Grub is or isn't right now, the fact remains that he is not Emperor and therefore is not making any decisions with respect to Polar's activities during this conflict.
[/quote]
Until Grub pays an individual price for his actions, his actions were done by the Polar Emperor and the alliance is responsible for them.

And yes, backstabbing is certainly something I have seen before from Polaris. For example, when they protected BDC, who had just committed treason against CDT, despite having several allies in CDT. Grub's malfeasance is just the latest example.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297577259' post='2630971']
Most alliances do not care about what happens to the world; they just care about their own small part of it.
[/quote]
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297577681' post='2630979']
There may well have been, but that doesn't mean anyone cares or listens.
[/quote]
Interesting.....brb formulating evil plans.

[Solaris]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1297491991' post='2630104']
The ways of the Light are not known to friends of the dark.
[/quote]
The true Light glows green.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297518503' post='2630284']*snip* Whether that helped or disadvantaged the side I'm on is really not through design but merely due to the way the chips have fallen.
[/quote]
Only tools let chips fall. Real players know how to place 'em. (Pun perhaps intented on a subconscious level.)


[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1297520326' post='2630298']
[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]
Half a league, half a league,[/size][/font]
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
'Forward the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.


o/ TOOL
[/quote]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the intention and motivation behind those poetic lines, to glorify suicide attacks that accomplish nothing?

[Salmia]

Ultimately that is something you will not understand. TOOL's treaty doesn't say "stay out if you're entering against overwhelming forces." TOOL's treaty doesn't say, "this treaty is only to be honored based on logical numbers and run away if they don't suit you." TOOL's treaty symbolizes in words what is behind it. I don't expect people to understand, you're only looking at the logistics behind it and that is not why we fight. We don't analyze the numbers and say that means we will stay out. We enter because of our bond. Sure, we will lose but we will hold up what we believe is right and that means far more than whatever you could throw at us.

Because all communities are built off something. When you lose what you are, what you are founded on, you lose your identity. Without an identity, you have no community. So, you can keep rambling on about suicide attacks but we're doing it because of our bond to TPF. That in the end outweighs numbers, nations and statistics. That outweighs anything you could throw at us. We can burn but it is not what our alliance is.

So keep telling us it is worthless and doesn't make a difference to you, it makes a difference to our friends because they know we throw our support behind them and have their back. That is far more valuable than our nations. So to battle we go, however futile you may view it, we do not.

We have our purpose, you have yours.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Salmia

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297578177' post='2630982']
Until Grub pays an individual price for his actions, his actions were done by the Polar Emperor and the alliance is responsible for them.
[/quote]

Well, you keep that pot on the boil then. As for NpO paying for it, I believe they are now. Rightly or wrongly.

[quote]
And yes, backstabbing is certainly something I have seen before from Polaris. For example, when they protected BDC, who had just committed treason against CDT, despite having several allies in CDT. Grub's malfeasance is just the latest example.
[/quote]

Yep, that convinces me that because of what happened in Bi-polar that every single war from on they are going to do the exact same thing. I mean with that extensive history you pointed out to me I can see why you are so concerned. They have clearly done the exact same thing so many times...well, once. So, yeah. Well played.

If anyone out there is still wondering why I said there was no chance of a coalition forming to defend the Orders, here is but an example of the sentiments within this "side" of the conflicts.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1297578724' post='2630989']
Only tools let chips fall. Real players know how to place 'em. (Pun perhaps intented on a subconscious level.)
[/quote]

I was wondering why you always had chips around your feet. The pattern they form looks too haphazard to be placed there.

But, your moronic attempt at an insult aside, when alliances plan a war they have the time to put all their ducks in a row. The alliances attacked and those drawn in by those attacks don't have that luxury. Less so when there is no real cause uniting those brought into the war in the first place.

I guess if I was a real player like you I'd be looking at disbanding my alliance at the end of the war, right? Or are you a believer in the "VE never disbanded, they just took a break" version of history?

Edited February 13, 2011 by Tygaland

[Solaris]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297579454' post='2631000']
I was wondering why you always had chips around your feet.
[/quote]
They're not chips, sir, I suggest you get your glasses fixed.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1297579270' post='2630996']
Ultimately that is something you will not understand. TOOL's treaty doesn't say "stay out if you're entering against overwhelming forces." TOOL's treaty doesn't say, "this treaty is only to be honored based on logical numbers and run away if they don't suit you." TOOL's treaty symbolizes in words what is behind it. I don't expect people to understand, you're only looking at the logistics behind it and that is not why we fight. We don't analyze the numbers and say that means we will stay out. We enter because of our bond. Sure, we will lose but we will hold up what we believe is right and that means far more than whatever you could throw at us.

Because all communities are built off something. When you lose what you are, what you are founded on, you lose your identity. Without an identity, you have no community. So, you can keep rambling on about suicide attacks but we're doing it because of our bond to TPF. That in the end outweighs numbers, nations and statistics. That outweighs anything you could throw at us. We can burn but it is not what our alliance is.

So keep telling us it is worthless and doesn't make a difference to you, it makes a difference to our friends because they know we throw our support behind them and have their back. That is far more valuable than our nations. So to battle we go, however futile you may view it, we do not.

We have our purpose, you have yours.
[/quote]
All hail TOOL, the only alliance to ever defend an ally.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1297579646' post='2631002']
They're not chips, sir, I suggest you get your glasses fixed.
[/quote]

Nah, they are chips. Look like they just fell there too.

[Salmia]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1297579710' post='2631006']
All hail TOOL, the only alliance to ever defend an ally.
[/quote]

I don't claim that we're the only one to ever to defend our ally but considering how many remarks on here about how [i]worthless[/i] it is, clearly people do not understand why WE enter. You have your reasons for fighting, we have ours.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1297579894' post='2631008']
I don't claim that we're the only one to ever to defend our ally but considering how many remarks on here about how [i]worthless[/i] it is, clearly people do not understand why WE enter. You have your reasons for fighting, we have ours.
[/quote]

/me likes your reasons.

Also, HELLO!

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297579304' post='2630998']
Well, you keep that pot on the boil then. As for NpO paying for it, I believe they are now. Rightly or wrongly.
[/quote]
My judgment is reserved until I see how the war ends. You may be right though.

[Solaris]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297579454' post='2631000']
I guess if I was a real player like you I'd be looking at disbanding my alliance at the end of the war, right?[/quote]

No, you should've done it when you lost your agenda and purpose, ha.

The whole thing was pretty weak.

[quote] Or are you a believer in the "VE never disbanded, they just took a break" version of history?
[/quote]

Not only was our disbandment lacking of honor, it was a result of weaker decision making processes and paradigms that were obviously prevailent at the time. We have since evolved, and taking a break (subsequent to our disbandment) played an important role in making us stronger. Now, I don't dispute or mean to deride the decision to disband, I was one of the people calling for a disbandment and redirecting our human resources towards reformation, revenge, and reconciliation - but I do find the decision making processes that [i]lead[/i] to the conditions under which we disbanded, to have been misguided and weak, leaving us no other perceivable choise under the paradigms that prevailed back then.


Besides, it's not about how many times you fall, it's about how many times you get back up. And once you know how it's like falling down, you'll have superior knowledge and enlightenment about such things, which can also make your decision making processes stronger. (though there are exceptions to the pattern, as some people might grow weaker when experiencing things)


[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297579825' post='2631007']
Nah, they are chips. Look like they just fell there too.
[/quote]
You should recognize salt tablets when you see them, veteran. I am slightly disappointed.


lol, apparently you haven't heard of camouflage either.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Solaris

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1297580871' post='2631019']
No, you should've done it when you lost your agenda and purpose, ha.

The whole thing was pretty weak.
[/quote]

I've never lost my purpose, but my mythical agenda has been difficult to locate despite many people claiming to have seen it.

[quote]
Not only was our disbandment lacking of honor, it was a result of weaker decision making processes and paradigms that were obviously prevailent at the time. We have since evolved, and taking a break (subsequent to our disbandment) played an important role in making us stronger. Now, I don't dispute or mean to deride the decision to disband, I was one of the people calling for a disbandment and redirecting our human resources towards reformation, revenge, and reconciliation - but I do find the decision making processes that [i]lead[/i] to the conditions under which we disbanded, to have been misguided and weak, leaving us no other perceivable choise under the paradigms that prevailed back then.


Besides, it's not about how many times you fall, it's about how many times you get back up. And once you know how it's like falling down, you'll have superior knowledge and enlightenment about such things, which can also make your decision making processes stronger. (though there are exceptions to the pattern, as some people might grow weaker when experiencing things)
[/quote]

You didn't get up one more time than most.

[quote]
You should recognize salt tablets when you see them, veteran. I am slightly disappointed.
[/quote]

I know what salt tablets look like. Those are definitely chips.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Tygaland

[Max Power]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1297558716' post='2630738']
Just notice this part. TPF is tied to Duckroll which is tied to TOP. This does not make TPFs sphere and TOPs sphere closely related.
[/quote]
This might have been a good idea on your part.

[Solaris]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1297581045' post='2631022']
You didn't get up one more time than most.
[/quote]
If that's how you see it, I can respect that, but I strongly disagree with the intrepetation.


I think that our current situation and standing speaks for our ability to rise (or, to get up) to be adequate, but I'm sure that with some bizarro glasses, we've actually fallen, so I can respect your opinion if you disagree.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1297581371' post='2631026']
If that's how you see it, I can respect that, but I strongly disagree with the intrepetation.
[/quote]

Disbandment is getting up now? Or was the disbandment just an extended period of laying down?

[quote]
I think that our current situation and standing speaks for our ability to rise (or, to get up) to be adequate, but I'm sure that with some bizarro glasses, we've actually fallen, so I can respect your opinion if you disagree.
[/quote]

I wasn't speaking of your current situation. You were the person barrelling in calling everyone on the opposing side a tool and labelling yourself a "real player" because you place the chips while we see where they fall. I was merely asking that for me to become a "real player" would it require me to place chips of disbandment like your good self or is dusting ourselves off and rebuilding as we have done in the past sufficient? You put yourself up on the pedestal so don't get snippy if I come to you for advice on how to graduate from tool to "real player".