Will your opinion of Pacifica or Polaris change after this war?

[Doug Falkner]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1297214727' post='2626323']
What a bunch of emo simps. I slapped NPO's butt every day for 9 months, then I got over it.
[/quote]

While I tend to agree with your sentiment, it struck me that it should be NPO that would have a hard time getting over your repeated butt slappings. It's not saying much to say that you got over it.

P.S. Oops, I should have just posted this stuff with my earlier comment. Oh well, deal with my semi-double posting.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Doug Falkner

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297209540' post='2626165']I was wronged by Cortath personally.[/quote]
Everyone's seen the logs. You're the only person who thinks Cortath wronged you.

The NPO wanted you to leave because you didn't fit in. Get over it; stop acting like an angsty teen if you want people to take you seriously.

[Jrenster]

It's not interesting if everyone's all hippie and cordial about everything. That's all I got to say.

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297212767' post='2626263']
I have a plethora of reasons for disliking you Crymson. Would you like me to list them alphabetically or chronologically?
[/quote]
Alphabetically! I love airing dirty laundry! It's even better because Crymson is a meanie and he deserves to be rolled!

[ChairmanHal]

[i]Quite honestly there is no way to respond to this thread properly IC, but here goes with the "short" version...[/i]

The Orders no longer have the pull they once did. This war has demonstrated beyond question that even when attacked simultaneously, something that would have been impossible 3 years ago, the Orders can be defeated. Placing them under any sort of reparation schedule makes no sense IC or OOC. Period.

[i]OOC: Maybe some of you like playing games in which you always know you'll win and you never buy a computer console game without knowing the cheat code for god mode. I feel sorry for you. If there's never a chance to lose, then winning is meaningless.[/i]

[Roi Loup]

i like polaris and that wont change.

*posts surrender to ve*

[Joseph Black]

Personally, I've nothing against either Polaris or Pacifica. This war has definitely changed my opinion of VE and MK though.

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1297212178' post='2626236']

On the other hand, after Karma, NPO went into its shell, complained about how unfair it all was (to be fair they did get record reparations, but they did rather deserve it) – and when they finally did try to initiate diplomacy (by this point I was in VE) it all got rather uncivilised rather quickly. ~ From the fact that people hate them enough to jump them opportunistically when they haven't done anything, it appears that other alliances had a similar experience.
[/quote]

We experienced this with them, and the turning point was when they sent over a younger member who didn't bs and it lead to a lot of very frank and honest conversations that I think greatly decreased hostility between our alliances, and all things considered that's a pretty huge improvement.

Polar got a clean slate with us when they finally hit us after years of constantly being wary. Had a fun war, put it past us, advocated for them greatly up until recently. Shame that war was finally brought on them, but I think it'll shake up the world some, so maybe I'm happy with the added tensions.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Midkn1ght

[mhawk]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297211116' post='2626214'] but once you have dealt with NPO's leadership and seen their true face it puts all their past crimes into perspective. They deserved every day they spent under those terms and more.

[/quote]
I'll have to disagree here. There are probably few people who have worked with NPO leadership as direct and longer term as I have. Your conclusions go against what I've experienced, but that is how it goes I guess. Same way I suppose xiphosis isn't [b]Really[/b] a monster

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1297210809' post='2626208']
I didn't like NpPO before, I don't like them now, and I don't plan on changing that in the future. My preference in dealing with the Orders has always been to keep them at arms length. I will never advocate for commencing diplomatic relations with them but I also won't be the one to lead a lynch mob after them like MK has done twice. As long as I stay away from them and they stay away from me, I'm happy.

Edit: I'll also be one of the first to publish the acronym NpPSO because to me, there's no real difference between Pacifica, Polaris, and Sith.
[/quote]

You cannot escape us DK, we shall ever-encroach into you

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1297211629' post='2626227']
I would also like to disagree with DK because I've only agreed with him so far. NSO is different. I actually like NSO for the most part. Seems like a different aura to me...
[/quote]

<3 Exodus

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1297220949' post='2626488']
I'll have to disagree here. There are probably few people who have worked with NPO leadership as direct and longer term as I have. Your conclusions go against what I've experienced, but that is how it goes I guess. Same way I suppose xiphosis isn't [b]Really[/b] a monster
[/quote]

Lies, he has boyles and sharp teeth and everything! I saw him myself!

[deathcat]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1297217614' post='2626412']
NpO is terrible no matter what happens and this won't change ever.
[/quote]
I could say the same of MK.. I won't though. I actually respect some of there members and years ago thought of joining the Kingdom. I wouldn't now due to the overwhelming OWF venom spewed from all Doomhosers, but I wouldn't wish what MK and company are doing on any alliance.. including their own.

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1297220681' post='2626478']
Personally, I've nothing against either Polaris or Pacifica. This war has definitely changed my opinion of VE and MK though.
[/quote]

I mostly agree with this statement. The reasons this war has started on both fronts was for absolutely STUPID reasons and Revenge isn't one of them

I'm sorry to say.. Since Karma and 2 wars against the Orders.. I'm not impressed with the way these wars came about.

In the past, I wasn't a HUGE fan of NPO or NpO.. but in the time since I starting governing my nation and getting a bit more FA experience just wandering around and chatting on the IRC channels of these alliances, I'm actually glad to know that there are very very good people in both alliances. I may not personally have agreed with everything NPO's done in the past, I do Personally like the direction they have taken lately: Staying out of the limelight, rebuilding both nations and community and friendships, and I see a vastly different NPO than before. They have a strong community with good people at all levels (similar to most of YOU and your alliances).

Either way, I only hope for the best of these 2 alliances.. I know they won't/can't go back to the way they were.. None of us can.

[Feanor Noldorin]

This war doesn't affect my stance towards these alliance. I'll still be neutral towards the NPO and I'll still dislike the NpO.

[Illustrious]

Are some of you people actually serious? This is [OCC]a freaking game.[/OCC]

Move on and stop whinning and crying about stuff that happened years ago, honestly it makes me feel like there are only a few adults in this game. I was a part of the NPO is evil trend when it was cool? Yeah I got my scars from noCB through Karma, but once Pacifica was stripped of its power I got over it, much like a few other folks. It's been two long years come on people it makes it seem like you have nothing better to do.

As for Polaris, I don't hold an opinion on them. They have a great community as I'm sure a lot of other alliances have, and dehumanizing them to the point where when they stand for what they believe in makes them the new boogyman and causing all this nonsense "oh they betrayed such and such, and that guy over there too" well oh my goodness, they must have it in for everyone!

Seriously, grow up and move on. Stop your fuss.


And honestly the only one that should have a right to go after Pacifica is FAN, cause they didn't get theirs during Karma. But that's another opinion for another time.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297209540' post='2626165']
<stuff>
[/quote]

Wow. I disagree with just about every word you said. And there were quite a few of them.

[m3g4tr0n]

I have always held both Polaris and Pacifica in high regard, even when I felt their wrath in my Legion days. They may have done things that others disliked, but in the end, they followed a course that they believed was right. I cannot fault them for it. They held the power in Digiterra, and they used it as they saw fit.

[Locke]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297218912' post='2626446']
I think Invicta are a !@#$ alliance, for example
[/quote]
Really now? [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Popcorn_War"]Heh.[/url]

[flak attack]

My opinion of NPO fell. They were even worse fighters than I expected.

[Delta1212]

This war won't have much of an effect on my opinion, but that doesn't tell you much unless you already know what my opinion is.

[Goldie]

I don't think my opinions will change much.

NPO will still be an alliance who I just don't agree with on any level in the game. Doesn't mean we have to war each other, or even not respect each other, but politically they're on the other end of the map and I don't see that changing.

NpO, my opinions of them change with the tides. I didn't like them much when I first started playing the game, then under Grub they led themselves to become the kind of alliance I absolutely respected more than most others in the game. Enough so that I actually wouldn't have minded calling them allies. I did, and always will, think they were 100% in the right in going after \m/ to kick off BiPolar, but it was their actions after that that started to chisel away the respect I had for them. I guess I can never completely condemn them for wanting to screw over TOP, given their history together, but it was definitely something that shattered their mantle of stability they had built up for so long. Penguin and Dajobo's rule brought a lot of the respect back, and I figured we were on decent enough terms. Then WCE hits, with NpO and allies being involved, and Random becomes Emperor. There went all of the respect, and with it came the knowledge that this was an alliance who wanted to destroy our ally and our bloc.

Of course now there is the war. Other than some recent underhanded actions, I can't say my opinion of them has changed much at all. I am sorry to see Dajobo do what he did, and even more sorry to see his silly explanation for his intentions. I'll say the jury is going to be out on how my opinion of Polar changes until after the war.

NPO, if they handle the war more gracefully than they are used to, and especially handle the terms process and aftermath with more respect, has a chance to regain the respect from a lot of people in the world.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1297209540' post='2626165']
The title is rather self-explanatory.

Personally I used to really like NpO. Sponge, Random, FF, Cookavich etc were genuinely cool. The problem, for me, was Grub. He used Karma as an opportunity to make some moralist posturing without doing any of the hard fighting, threatened a direct MADP partner of MK (while holding an MDoAP with MK, which really put MK in a bad position) and started throwing his weight around. My opinion of NpO slowly declined. Then in BiPolar he made a series of absolutely monumental errors which finally killed my opinion of the alliance. I mean, I'm not even a fan of TOP. Crymson, for example, is pretty !@#$@#$ horrible. But NpO shouldn't have broken their word to them. That's not really the problem though, if they'd simply screwed TOP over I wouldn't have really cared (although giving their word to let TOP hit MK was a dick move in the first place, considering NpO held a treaty with MK.) The problem was, well, pretty much every single action they took in BiPolar. Attacking \m/ in the first place was really stupid. I saw logs from Grub's discussions with his allies and it pretty much boiled down to 'if I don't go to war people won't take me seriously'. Well, going to war over an ego trip is an absolutely stupid idea. Especially as it put Ragnarok in a terrible position (RoK held treaties with both NpO and \m/.) And then honestly, proceeding to attack GOD, who had been preparing for years to fight Polar, was pretty !@#$@#$ stupid, particularly (as has been pointed out) it was Fark who was doing the real damage to NSO.

But while I could keep listing everything that Polar did which was stupid, I don't really need to. I've established that by the time that BiPolar ended, my good opinion of Polar was dead. When Penguin came to the throne, I eased up a bit, because he's a genuinely calm and rational and cool dude, but I was still left with the sense that NpO deserved to be rolled. Well, that has happened now, and my grudge with Polar has died with it. I mean, I'm not going to just start liking them, but they have an opportunity here for reform. Much as I like Random, for example, he's completely the wrong guy for emperor. Acknowledging that they went wrong in BiPolar would be another step forward (not that they ever would, they're a bit too proud for that.) Stop Grub from spouting off on the forums, and perhaps shut up some of their worst posters (I'm thinking D34th here.) At the very least, they can become respectable opponents.

Onto Pacifica. I really hated these !@#$%^&*, and the whole 'we've switched emperor!' deal didn't really work with me, because I was wronged by Cortath personally. I'm rather disappointed I didn't get to nuke the $%&@ out of them in this war, but I'm sure there'll be other wars (I was going to join MK and help with the NPO front, but I decided to rebuild instead.) Personally, even though I can't stand NPO, I'll let up some of the hate after this war. It won't change my opinion of them or their culture, but I'll have had revenge, even if I didn't deal it out personally. If NPO will humble themselves and make apologies to FAN and GATO for what they did, then that would really help too. I'll always be distrustful of them, and I'll never like them, but I'll move on. Two years is a long time to hold a grudge after all.

I have also changed my opinion of what reps the Orders should receive. While I originally just wanted NPO to die, I think that a) it's kind of dickish to demand reps (or at least, massive reps, I'm sure I would live with myself if they paid some smaller amount) for an aggressive war and b) it would be best for the political situation if they got white peace, or something close to it. The Orders make good opponents after all.
[/quote]

I thought you had turned the other cheek? Tch tch.


[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1297227156' post='2626606']
My opinion of NPO fell. They were even worse fighters than I expected.
[/quote]

Funny jokes only please.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Charles Stuart

[AlmightyGrub]

At the end of the day the world would be a very dull and boring place without the Orders. I live in hope that someone tries to make it so.

I dislike Pacifica and always have since I started this game. I believe they have done what is required of them to be perceived to be different, just as I believed Polaris did so post SPW. I am happy with that, if you aren't who cares?

I love Polaris, always will and no amount of de-pixelating is going to change that. I made some calls along the way in a few short days that somehow has been perceived as something it certainly isn't. Polaris fundamentally changed post SPW and I led that change with enthusiasm. I also perceived we had a role to play, forgive me for not kow towing to your every whim and agenda.

I hate TOP, always will now, and it is a shame because we were actually making very good progress. I see them as devolving now into petty thugs for the ADHD side which is a shame. Some day we will actually be honest with each other. Today will not be that day however. I do hate Crymson, more than he will ever understand, he is a bare faced liar and no doubt that will continue ad finitum, especially now that he is back where he belongs, oppressing others without risk of damage. So gutless really, all you had to do was admit what I already knew instead of lying about it continually.

I hate MK, was always sceptical, tried really hard to play in their sand box, but ultimately we are not alike. I have some friends there who will always be friends, but the rest of you are simply #$%^% (insert any other word here I am sick of the consequences for choosing the wrong term). Yes Voytek, that means you

Personally I don't actually care what any of you think about Polaris or me post Bi-Polar. There is a consequence to that position, so be it. I wont be changing any time soon and the beauty of it is, there is SFA you can do about it. Talk to Random if you want to feel loved.

For the record, I have apologized to those I inadvertently screwed over in Bi-Polar. If you think I deliberately screwed anyone and that anyone is you, please feel free to contat me privately (except TOP, I screwed you and no amount of discussion is going to change the way we feel about each other right now is it?)

[The MVP]

You dislike TOP? You realized TOP was going to give you victory last war until you stabbed them in the back, with you walking off fairly unscathed, only to now be put to the sword by those you helped ensures victory right?

How did Crymson lie? Not that Crymson isn't a bare faced liar, but I don't think he'd lie to get his alliance gang banged. That makes no sense.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1297217418' post='2626406']
To answer your question no. I'll still hate Pacifica post war because quite honestly they're too smug and uppity. That being said, I currently think there are greater threats to IAA than NPO. So I don't plan on targeting them or anything.

As for what you say about Polar, I too was ready to roll out when they were threatening Athens. I still don't think a few FA blunders should have had them targeted the way they were. (once again though that's debatable.)

As for what you're talking about with GATO and FAN. I know for a fact NPO apologized to GATO. (could have been hollow I really don't know). I'm not sure about FAN though.

However, I think what NPO needs to do (and they've gotten better at this) is to stop trying to poke their nose anywhere and everywhere. NPO didn't do anything to me pre-Karma (I still had friends harmed by them though). [b]However, their smugness and their government's constant whining about GATO's foreign policy just intensified my hate for them. If they'd just chill out and try to actually make friends I think the entire world would be willing to open up to them.[/b]
[/quote]

I think a lot has changed since you left GATO. Sure, Shinra hates us but our embassy there is the place to be

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1297228808' post='2626652']
You dislike TOP? You realized TOP was going to give you victory last war until you stabbed them in the back, with you walking off fairly unscathed, only to now be put to the sword by those you helped ensures victory right?[/quote]

I wasn't aware that the hatred before Bipolar between Polaris and TOP was not public knowledge. They weren't going to give us victory in anything. They started an entirely new war with MK and CnG, but again this point has been debated to death.


[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1297228808' post='2626652']
How did Crymson lie? Not that Crymson isn't a bare faced liar, but I don't think he'd lie to get his alliance gang banged. That makes no sense.
[/quote]

No, he wouldn't. But he would lie to try and screw us over.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1297228836' post='2626653']
I think a lot has changed since you left GATO. Sure, Shinra hates us but our embassy there is the place to be
[/quote]

Sorry I meant getting in the way of GATO's FA while I was in charge. I don't know what goes on between GATO and NPO now in the post-PIAT age.