Supa_Troop3r Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I always loved fighting you guys. Show them why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffey Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297009770' post='2622197'] so, if you're accepting the Doom House conceit of a declaration on one being a declaration on all... doesn't that mean that your optional defense pact doesn't apply? After all, TPF attacked Doom House, rather than the other way round, if you're accepting this conceit. [/quote] Avalon will do what we think is just regardless if we have a treaty tie or not. Edited February 6, 2011 by Guffey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Guffey' timestamp='1297010025' post='2622202'] Avalon will do what we think is just regardless if we have a treaty tie or not. [/quote] so glad you agree with the Doom House stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffey Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297010368' post='2622210'] so glad you agree with the Doom House stand. [/quote] i said just. In our eyes, what you did was not just. Hence our war against you. If you read the DoW carefully you will see that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='MagicalTrevor' timestamp='1297006308' post='2622141'] Using an OA to continue on with boosting GOONS total wars? Thanks for that, we were just beginning to think GOONS would shutup about how many alliances were on them :< Interesting time for a blitz and interesting nations aswell, all so similar . . . [/quote] Actually MK and Umbrella have been conducting offensive operations against TPF for days now sans DOW, so they are just as much using the ODP part of their Oath as the oA part(if they attack a GOONS nation). That's one of the reasons I them so much, they remind me of cookies on the baking sheet, and they can take the heat! [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297009770' post='2622197'] so, if you're accepting the Doom House conceit of a declaration on one being a declaration on all... doesn't that mean that your optional defense pact doesn't apply? After all, TPF attacked Doom House, rather than the other way round, if you're accepting this conceit. [/quote] ^See above comment. After that ML thread, are you still suggesting MK & Umbrella have not acted aggressively against TPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297009770' post='2622197'] so, if you're accepting the Doom House conceit of a declaration on one being a declaration on all... doesn't that mean that your optional defense pact doesn't apply? After all, TPF attacked Doom House, rather than the other way round, if you're accepting this conceit. [/quote] Well first, before addressing the direct question you asked, in relation to it, we understand the pile on against you, and believe it or not we sympathize with you. Thus we would not deign to join in to it. If GOONS are upset that we would include them by issuing against the entirety of DH, well that was not our intent. If GOONS has an issue with being included in our war declaration, we could amend it to be only the other members of DH. However I would be most confused if that was the case, since we presumed from previous behavior and statements from DH that you were intending to treat all wars as one. Our intent was simply to cut out the middleman stage or pretense otherwise. We thought you would prefer such anyway as it is less issue all around for everyone, no? Onto the question at hand, the TPF treaty is slightly misleading, since Avalon does not hold treaties of sorts, the situation is actually a case of a non-mutual level relationship. We take an Oathe of fidelity and brotherhood towards another alliance and in the case of TPF we swore an oADPIAT (so longa s we agree with their reasoning), whereas they via a normal treaty give to us an ODP. So in technical terms of normal treaty relationships, the answer is yes it is beyond the ODP aspect but not the oA promise from us to them. However also as Guffey stated, we have been of the crowd that feels treaties are obligations to act in the manner one promised (which is why we only promise to act if we agree), however we dont hold to the belief that a treaty is required to do the right thing, just so long as you are not jumping on a victorious bandwagon, or crash a party without consent of the side you wish to join. As for the second part of the question, while I certainly see the point, the e-lawyers out there would easily stretch it to include that an attack on TPF's MADP partner was an attack on TPF, thus warranting defense clauses. In the end people seem to just e-lawyer such treaties to death and do what they want to do anyway it seems. Anyway sorry about the wall of text response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahnite Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Love you guys and I especially love your sig! Best war sig yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson King Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297009770' post='2622197'] so, if you're accepting the Doom House conceit of a declaration on one being a declaration on all... doesn't that mean that your optional defense pact doesn't apply? After all, TPF attacked Doom House, rather than the other way round, if you're accepting this conceit. [/quote] And if they agree with that stance then they also agree that the 3 of you hitting NPO is the same as hitting TPF because of our MADP with them. See how you lose this argument no matter how many times you try it Welcome to the war Avalon. Glad to have you by our sides once again Edit: Syn was one minute faster than I it appears. Edited February 6, 2011 by The Crimson King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297010368' post='2622210'] so glad you agree with the Doom House stand. [/quote] [quote name='Guffey' timestamp='1297010568' post='2622215'] i said just. In our eyes, what you did was not just. Hence our war against you. If you read the DoW carefully you will see that [/quote] Pretty much as my comrade states. While we agree that a treaty is not required for war, we do feel a war should be just. In the case of the DH war going on, we feel it is not just, thus our objection and agreement to stand against it. However if you expect from us, a continuation of the arguments elsewhere about the treatyless entry, then you will search in vain, since yes, in that manner we agree with you. Thus why we are here on a front against DH and not on a front against FAN, as we find their claim to a pound of flesh a just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='The Crimson King' timestamp='1297011693' post='2622226'] Edit: Syn was one minute faster than I it appears. [/quote] Sorry about that good sir, did not mean to steal your thunder there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 You guys seem like a cool bunch. Hope you get some good terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='SyndicatedINC' timestamp='1297012534' post='2622240'] Pretty much as my comrade states. While we agree that a treaty is not required for war, we do feel a war should be just. [/quote] and we feel our war was just. Thank you for your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChimpMasterFlash Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297012925' post='2622250'] and we feel our war was just. Thank you for your support. [/quote] I guess Umbrella and MK have to destroy all of npo allies before moving on to npo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297012925' post='2622250'] and we feel our war was just. Thank you for your support. [/quote] Well I should hope that you were not supporting it if you felt otherwise Also you are truly welcome, though you may not believe it, we do support a portion of the position that you have put forth. So in regards to the GOONS question of the declaration as discussed earlier. Is it an issue that we declared against DH rather the other alliances besides GOONS? I am actually curious, because we honestly were and still are under the assumption that this was how GOONS would have seen it anyway, even if we did not declare directly on them in the announcement. In the end whether we issued in game wars or an official DoW was irrelevant to the GOONS view, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdgus Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 o/ Avalon o/ killing MK scum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='SyndicatedINC' timestamp='1297013415' post='2622258'] Well I should hope that you were not supporting it if you felt otherwise Also you are truly welcome, though you may not believe it, we do support a portion of the position that you have put forth. So in regards to the GOONS question of the declaration as discussed earlier. Is it an issue that we declared against DH rather the other alliances besides GOONS? I am actually curious, because we honestly were and still are under the assumption that this was how GOONS would have seen it anyway, even if we did not declare directly on them in the announcement. In the end whether we issued in game wars or an official DoW was irrelevant to the GOONS view, yes? [/quote] to be quite honest, we don't care all that much. We just find it funny to grab any chain we can and give them a good old yank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297014037' post='2622274'] to be quite honest, we don't care all that much. We just find it funny to grab any chain we can and give them a good old yank. [/quote] Okay, thank you for the honest response. I was starting to wonder if we guessed the situation correctly or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1297009770' post='2622197'] so, if you're accepting the Doom House conceit of a declaration on one being a declaration on all... doesn't that mean that your optional defense pact doesn't apply? After all, TPF attacked Doom House, rather than the other way round, if you're accepting this conceit. [/quote] What I get out of this is that even when they play by your rules you complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='SyndicatedINC' timestamp='1297011616' post='2622224'] As for the second part of the question, while I certainly see the point, the e-lawyers out there would easily stretch it to include that an attack on TPF's MADP partner was an attack on TPF, thus warranting defense clauses. In the end people seem to just e-lawyer such treaties to death and do what they want to do anyway it seems. Anyway sorry about the wall of text response. [/quote] As it turns out, GOONS and MK have spent the better part of a year making e-lawyer jokes but now that the rubber has hit the road, they can't help but pull out there wigs and robes and do their damndest to make everyone an aggressor in the war they started. [quote name='Locke' timestamp='1297016160' post='2622346'] What I get out of this is that even when they play by your rules you complain. [/quote] Basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespassianus Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Avalon is the few alliance that i like, you honorable as usual, good luck in your fight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Woo-hoo! Get 'em Avalon! Also, that is one of my favorite movies. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axolotlia Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I remember when TLDR's weren't too long to read... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Hmm, I take it when people say they declare on "Doomhouse" they don't mean GOONS. Cause I don't see any new wars on us by you or the other guys who said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1297017713' post='2622378'] Hmm, I take it when people say they declare on "Doomhouse" they don't mean GOONS. Cause I don't see any new wars on us by you or the other guys who said that. [/quote] You could try reading the thread. [img]http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDragon Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Wow, I've never seen that movie... It's.. awesome. See you on the battlefield with your M1's, we'll be packing M4s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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