FOK, ARES and Genesis Announcement!

[Tromp]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296934399' post='2620799']
[...]

Yes Im serious.
[/quote]
Then there's no talking to you, as you don't understand simple and basic rules of law. I have given you the answer in my first reply, and that's all you're going to get.

Good day.

[The MVP]

It's no secret this was a setup. VE's CB was only to just barely scrape by on a CB that would allow them to hit Polaris with a somewhat justified reason in their views. Pacifica getting hit with no CB, well do you really thing both Orders got hit out of coincidence? That's probably the biggest achievement and victory the other side has achieved over the bewildering masses.

This war was set up to destroy the Orders and to a point politics have decided the outcome of the war before the CB's were made. With Athens, TOP and the more easily swayed portions of SF on Doomhouse's side along with Duckroll staying sidelined the "gg" was already hammered out before any war began.

Have to give them credit for their political maneuvering which was absolutely flawless. Although somewhat assured given the crippled nature of their opponent.

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

Congrats on peace guys.

o/ FOK
o/ ARES
o/ Genesis

[nippy]

No one should manufacture peace terms without first consulting Alterego for his opinion. This is an absolute atrocity!

[foxfire99]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296934399' post='2620799']
If I was joking I would say: [i]Did you hear the one about 2 different blocs who manufactured 2 seperate CBs out of thin air 7 days apart then called it the same war. [/i]

"shall refrain from re-entering the NpO-VE conflict opposite of FOK, [b]or any wars resulting from it[/b]"

Yes Im serious. If you can claim 2 unrelated wars with 2 seperate groups of alliances started for 2 different reasons 7 days apart are the same war, then you can just claim any future war is a result of this war.
[/quote]

If you read the Doomhouse Dow you would realize how silly this sounds.

[LeDee]

Glad to see the Doomhouse clause...no one should have peace without it!

[Timmmehhh]

[quote name='bakamitai' timestamp='1296934240' post='2620794']
What about CCC? Did I miss the thread, or are you guys still going at it?
[/quote]
We are still at war with CCC and NpO.

[erikz]

Good to see you guys peacing out! Have fun rebuilding Genesis and ARES

[Axolotlia]

Why can't people understand that if there are terms, its not [b]white[/b] peace. Its just peace.

[Michael von Prussia]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1296932604' post='2620734']
White peace? Truly the monsters.
[/quote]
This is not white peace. [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/White_peace"]White peace[/url] occurs when no terms or requirements for peace are given to either side. In this case, ARES and Genesis are subject to the term that they not reenter this war, or enter another war which is, for the intents and purposes of treaty ties and [i]casus belli[/i], completely unrelated. Indicating to me that this has all been a plot to roll Pacifica again. So yes, they are monsters.

Still, peace is nice to see. It certainly makes up for the lack of FOK's war flag in all these threads.

[empirica]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1296936034' post='2620841']
Why can't people understand that if there are terms, its not [b]white[/b] peace. Its just peace.
[/quote]
OP identifies it as peace and not white peace. I've been referring to it as grey peace, but that term hasn't caught on. Give it time.

[Emperor Whimsical]

Thank you FOK!

Glad to see ARES and Genesis getting out of this relatively unscathed.

[Cataduanes]

Well done GO and FOK, all the best to Genesis on rebuilding.

.....Mind you Templar should be kept in PZI

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296933351' post='2620764']
The NPO-DH war is a seperate war not another front. Does this ban have an expirey date? You could turn around in 18 months and come up with another bogus CB to restart the war or just hit them again and call it the same war much like you are calling 2 different wars the same war now. If ARES then entered that war on a MDP you could claim breach or surrender terms.
[/quote]


You can keep saying that is two different wars if this make you feel better. To the coalition behind the different fronts is only one. If you prefer to believe what you want it is fine. Wait to see when alliances switch from one front to the other. This is my humble personal opinion.


Added: Almost forgot why I came here. Congrats to Fok and all alliances involved.

Edited February 5, 2011 by King Louis the II

[Kowalski]

Excellent work FOK and GO.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296933351' post='2620764']
The NPO-DH war is a seperate war not another front. Does this ban have an expirey date? You could turn around in 18 months and come up with another bogus CB to restart the war or just hit them again and call it the same war much like you are calling 2 different wars the same war now. If ARES then entered that war on a MDP you could claim breach or surrender terms.
[/quote]
The original DoW from Doomhouse stated them as being connected. If those making the declaration of war aren't allowed to determine whether the two are connected, who is? Who has the final say?

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296934399' post='2620799']
Yes Im serious. If you can claim 2 unrelated wars with 2 seperate groups of alliances started for 2 different reasons 7 days apart are the same war, then you can just claim any future war is a result of this war.
[/quote]
Good idea, we'll store that away for future use. Might need to clear up the "two separate groups of alliances" thing though, read the original DoW to see that they weren't completely separate. If you happen to disagree then I refer you back to the point above.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1296935005' post='2620813']
the more easily swayed portions of SF on Doomhouse's side
[/quote]

You mean uh...treatied? Like we had treaties? With VE, not Doomhouse? I don't think anyone in SF actually has any treaties with DH's front actually, but i could be wrong. Genesis, ARES, and GOD all knew how this war would divide us, and instead of being everyone being little babies and pouting about them on our front, all parties simply shook hands and agreed to meet on the other side, after the conflict. SF met and was informed of Ragnarok's decision to move with NpO as well.


EDIT: Clarification.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Emperor Whimsical

[cs1177]

Congratulations on Peace Genesis!

[bakamitai]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1296936981' post='2620867']
The original DoW from Doomhouse stated them as being connected. If those making the declaration of war aren't allowed to determine whether the two are connected, who is? Who has the final say?

Good idea, we'll store that away for future use. Might need to clear up the "two separate groups of alliances" thing though, read the original DoW to see that they weren't completely separate. If you happen to disagree then I refer you back to the point above.
[/quote]
I submit that NPO was not, and is not, involved at all with the PB/NpO war. The attack by Doomhouse against NPO was therefore unrelated, despite their protests otherwise.

If War #1 had anything to do with us, Doomhouse should have hit us at the same time as VE hit NpO, to gain a tactical advantage. Instead, they graciously gave us a week to prepare our defenses. In particular, they gave us the chance to analyze the situation, determine that our upper tiers aren't really any match for theirs, and put many of our nations into PM. Clearly, a [i]brilliant[/i] tactical move on their part.

The more reasonable explanation is that their master plan was to wait until we joined War #1 via the treaty web, so they could hit us in defense of their allies and retain the moral high ground. An admirable plan, only things didn't turn out that way. Unfortunately for them, we saw through their rather transparent ruse, and didn't join War #1. Meanwhile, many of the allies / meatshields they were hoping to use to help take us down were getting tied up with the ongoing war, so they decided to cut their losses and start War #2 without a legitimate CB. Obviously, they had to claim that the two wars were related, to retain what little PR they could, although by now it's clear to all involved that the real reason Doomhouse hit us was simply because they don't like us.

To the extent that War #1 was designed to roll us, the "let's hit NpO to drag in NPO via the treaty web" subterfuge was very poorly executed, and failed to bring us in. Hence the need to attack us directly in unrelated War #2.

[King Xander the Only]

Great work, FOK!

[oinkoink12]

[quote name='bakamitai' timestamp='1296946621' post='2621046']
I submit that NPO was not, and is not, involved at all with the PB/NpO war. The attack by Doomhouse against NPO was therefore unrelated, despite their protests otherwise.

If War #1 had anything to do with us, Doomhouse should have hit us at the same time as VE hit NpO, to gain a tactical advantage. Instead, they graciously gave us a week to prepare our defenses. In particular, they gave us the chance to analyze the situation, determine that our upper tiers aren't really any match for theirs, and put many of our nations into PM. Clearly, a [i]brilliant[/i] tactical move on their part.

The more reasonable explanation is that their master plan was to wait until we joined War #1 via the treaty web, so they could hit us in defense of their allies and retain the moral high ground. An admirable plan, only things didn't turn out that way. Unfortunately for them, we saw through their rather transparent ruse, and didn't join War #1. Meanwhile, many of the allies / meatshields they were hoping to use to help take us down were getting tied up with the ongoing war, so they decided to cut their losses and start War #2 without a legitimate CB. Obviously, they had to claim that the two wars were related, to retain what little PR they could, although by now it's clear to all involved that the real reason Doomhouse hit us was simply because they don't like us.

To the extent that War #1 was designed to roll us, the "let's hit NpO to drag in NPO via the treaty web" subterfuge was very poorly executed, and failed to bring us in. Hence the need to attack us directly in unrelated War #2.
[/quote]


Your mostly correct, allthough the reason for war#1 wasnt really to designed to roll you.

[Spaarlaamp]

Yay FOK won!

Expected but necessary.

[The MVP]

[quote name='oinkoink12' timestamp='1296951557' post='2621127']
Your mostly correct, allthough the reason for war#1 wasnt really to designed to roll you.
[/quote]

Like I said you won this war politically well before the CB was announced. It could have been about puff pastries and you were still in a position to win this war. Your maneuvering was good, but perhaps a bit too overdrawn for an already wounded opponent who refused to appeal for reconciliation. Also, is AlmightyGrub an undercover agent for you guys? The way he's been able to keep people from refusing to help Polaris has been an amazing thing to see. You could say this is his way of avenging the NAAC.

[oinkoink12]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1296951762' post='2621131']
Like I said you won this war politically well before the CB was announced. It could have been about puff pastries and you were still in a position to win this war. Your maneuvering was good, but perhaps a bit too overdrawn for an already wounded opponent who refused to appeal for reconciliation. Also, is AlmightyGrub an undercover agent for you guys? The way he's been able to keep people from refusing to help Polaris has been an amazing thing to see. You could say this is his way of avenging the NAAC.
[/quote]

Well personally I cant say that I have a grudge for NpO, I actually like grub
I didnt mind to hit UPN though

[Penkala]

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1296936126' post='2620845']
This is not white peace. [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/White_peace"]White peace[/url] occurs when no terms or requirements for peace are given to either side. In this case, ARES and Genesis are subject to the term that they not reenter this war, or enter another war which is, for the intents and purposes of treaty ties and [i]casus belli[/i], completely unrelated. Indicating to me that this has all been a plot to roll Pacifica again. So yes, they are monsters.

Still, peace is nice to see. It certainly makes up for the lack of FOK's war flag in all these threads.
[/quote]


You're right. It's [i]substantially[/i] white peace. Like it or not, 'white peace' has transformed from "War's over. Go home." into any set of terms that do not require any form of reparations or decommissions or other such terms (treaty cancellations, government bannings, etc.). The only terms allowed under today's definition of white peace are non-aggression clauses and 'joke terms' designed to show that one side has defeated the other.

So yes, this was white peace. At least, as far as most peoples' definitions of white peace is concerned. There were no negative impacts on the alliance from these terms.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Penkala

[Derwood1]

Congrats on peace.

o/ Fok!