Announcement from Umbrella and the Mushroom Kingdom

[Rebounder]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1296790203' post='2618673']
If there are any nations in our range in TPF, then of course we're at war with them. The only reason this hasn't been acknowledged is because TPF (and the rest of the NPO and NPO's ally's) upper tiers are hiding from us in PM.
[/quote]

That's your excuse now? A good one for shooting from the hip with excuses, but nontheless a poor one.

You declared wars without actually declaring an alliance war. That means your members were rogues unless your government are actually willing to declare war on TPF. Otherwise, it's an aggressive attack on Molon Labe. You're the aggressors either way.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Rebounder

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WCaesarD' timestamp='1296790151' post='2618669']
You're doing no such thing until we see some admission from you stating you were engaged in a war with tpf prior to all of this, regardless of the size of the engagement.
[/quote]
It's been stated several times including directly in the OP.

[i]We acknowledge that this has been done without a formal declaration of war, but it is a very small scale engagement which did not warrant cluttering Alliance Politics more than it already has been. It should go without saying that when a bloc-mate is struck, we consider ourselves at war with the entity attacking them.[/i]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1296790185' post='2618671']
They called a spade a spade by doing the same thing you did. They figured that if you don't bother posting DOWs before you hit someone, that they don't need to post a DOW when they hit you.

Seems to me you're whining because they hit you without a DOW, after you threw all the rules out the window. While it pains me to say it, The Big Bad is right, Karma is a !@#$%*.
[/quote]
Are you being intentionally obtuse? I sometimes wonder at the mind numbing inanity of people looking for anything they can to criticize us about.

They insisted on keeping up the charade of our members being "rogues" when we made it clear that they weren't. This declaration is clarifying the issue.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Azaghul

[Noob Cake]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1296789011' post='2618608']
So let me get it straight, unsanctioned members from your alliances attack members of an alliance you have not declared on, a direct MDoAP partner of TPF, treats them as rogues (as these are attacks against alliances by two alliances that have not declared war on TPF), and then suddenly you're all upset and butthurt over these actions?

Up is not down, the sky is not pink, and yes, as usual, you're full of !@#$.

We'll see if ML has good allies who have the balls to respond to this act of aggression against ML.
[/quote]

I don't see why a NSO member can't follow the simple logic chain of this declaration.

TPF attacks GOONS, MDoAP partners of both Umbrella and MK (Distance 0)
Umbrella and MK attack TPF (Distance 1)
ML attacks Umbrella and MK in defense of TPF, their MDoAP ally (Distance 2)
Umbrella and MK declare war on ML in self defense.

In fact, Umb and MK attacking ML is arguably more justified than ML attacking us. The ML equivalent of an Umb/MK attack on TPF is a ML attack on GOONS.

A DoW is only a courtesy toward ML and a formality at best.

Lastly, get your fail e-lawyering out of here

[potato]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1296789927' post='2618656']
Yes they really really do. You morons decided to throw all the rules out the window and now [b]we have listen to you all cry[/b] when people are doing as they wish. You think its bad now then you have no idea what is down the road. Karma is a real !@#$%* and you idiots let this genie out of the bottle. Coming here and moaning about it will not save you before that genie comes back round and bites you in the ass. I also feel sorry for whatever suckers you send to mess with ML, enjoy that beating.
[/quote]

You seem awfully annoyed. Which big meanie put a gain to your rosy cheeks and forced you to read our announcements?

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1296789976' post='2618661']
Seems to me the reason they didn't post a DOW, dawg, is because you did the same to their ally TPF, so they responded in kind.
If DL is spineless for not posting a DOW, so is MK and Umbrella when counterring TPF.
[/quote]
Personally I don't get the whole complaining about not posting a DoW over things like countering or filling war slots for a treatymate (or blocmate in this case). Especially if it's just a couple wars. To me that's a pretty petty/boring thing to complain about. The whiner's equivalent of a slow news day.

In this case it's not really about that; rather ML's official statement was that the member of Umb and MK attacking TPF were "rogues," and they were simply attacking rogues. Except they immediately went back on that claim by attacking whoever they felt like in MK/Umb. If ML had come out and said "We're attacking you because you attacked our treaty partner," that would've actually made sense, but they didn't do that. They made up some weird story and then immediately contradicted themselves. So whatever their actual intention or motivation was, it doesn't really sync up with their actions.

Either way, they shouldn't be surprised that if they attack MK/Umb, MK/Umb will attack back.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1296790281' post='2618677']
This man speaks the truth. I love how they won't actually declare their aggressive war, but when they're taking a "defensive action," they don't mind "cluttering the forums."
[/quote]
Your insistence on using the words aggressive and defensive has you tripping over your own words.

1) MK/Umbrella/GOONS/FAN attack the NPO (aggressively)
2) TPF attacks GOONS (defensively)
3) MK/Umbrella attack TPF (defensively)
4) ML attacks MK/Umbrella (defensively)

Unless of course in your little world the word "aggressive" is synonymous with "against me and my allies."

[MikeTheFirst]

[quote name='Taishaku' timestamp='1296790367' post='2618682']
Heck, I don't even know why the Mushroom Kingdom declared on us. Aside from a crusade of bad taste, MK and FOK have no treaties
[/quote]
Wut? They have an MDoAP.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1296790414' post='2618686']
So now that ML is in the war will Valhalla continue to hide while ML burns. (yay Duckroll?)

Not that that would be a dick move or anything.
[/quote]

And here comes the pre-emptive treaty guilting bang on time!

[Lord Levistus]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1296790229' post='2618675']
I have no idea what your problem is with TPF, but it seems there is one and thats unfortunate.
[/quote]

I didn't have one before, not really. Sure, there's some blind allegiance to NPO involved and all that, but I didn't have any actual issues with tPF.

Drawing in ML, and attempting to draw in TOOL to defend NPO in your stead while you hide the majority of your strength in peace mode however, NOW i have a problem.

[Sardonic]

The funniest thing about this whole situation is that even if you think MK/Umbrella are in the wrong for not posting a DOW on TPF, ML did it first when they attacked non "rogue" MK and umbrella nations. There's really no way ML didn't just do something extremely stupid.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Sardonic

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1296790203' post='2618673']
If there are any nations in our range in TPF, then of course we're at war with them. The only reason this hasn't been acknowledged is because TPF (and the rest of the NPO and NPO's ally's) upper tiers are hiding from us in PM.
[/quote]
Why wasn't this a recognition of hostilities with all those you are engaged with, instead of just TPF and ML?

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Nice knowing you ML. I wouldn't count on Duckroll helping you. It's quite clear that TOP wants them in line with MK.[/color]

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='WCaesarD' timestamp='1296790151' post='2618669']
You're doing no such thing until we see some admission from you stating you were engaged in a war with tpf prior to all of this, regardless of the size of the engagement.
[/quote]

Your not going to get an answer they are just making it up was they go. Of course things keep going !@#$ up so they then have to run around and try and change things. Attacking TPF without a DoW was all fine and dandy until ML started hitting these rogue nations, since no DoW what esle could they be. Now some how ML is in the wrong and gets a DoW and TPF still has not. Its this kind of stupidity that is making them not only a laughing stock but, Planet Bobs biggest all time pariah.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1296790448' post='2618690']
That's your excuse now? A good one for shooting from the hip with excuses, but nontheless a poor one.

You declared wars without actually declaring an alliance war. That means your members were rogues unless your government are actually willing to declare war on TPF. Otherwise, it's an aggressive attack on Molon Labe. You're the aggressors either way.
[/quote]
Our alliance was effectively at war with TPF as soon as they attacked GOONS. They knew the consequences of their actions, and pulled their alliance into PM to avoid us. It's laughable that you try and argue any other way.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Banksy

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Taishaku' timestamp='1296790367' post='2618682']
Well, you guys already disqualified the need for a casus belli. Who needs a declaration of war?

And I noticed that Umbrella nations attacked us; the last time I checked, the CCC was not at war with Umbrella. Heck, I don't even know why the Mushroom Kingdom declared on us. Aside from a crusade of bad taste, MK and FOK have no treaties, nor does the CCC and NPO. I mean, seriously, WE WERE ON YOUR SIDE IN KARMA AND TOP-C&G.
[/quote]
MK and FOK have a MDoAP.

Edit: link: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95791

Edited February 4, 2011 by Azaghul

[Crymson]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1296788702' post='2618587']
So you're at war with a Duckroll alliance now. That's interesting.
[/quote]

As I've been told it, Molon Labe has been informed by the rest of Duckroll that they're on their own in this one.

[Sulmar]

To be quite honest I feel like this perfectly legitimate for MK and Umb to do. Let's only bash them for the stupid things they do ok?

Also, Duckroll, sup?

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1296788254' post='2618567']
[center][img]http://f.cl.ly/items/2g083U111J3T0o0f2B2L/mkumbdual.jpg[/img][/center]



Molon Labe nations have been attacking nations within Umbrella and Mushroom Kingdom who were engaging The Phoenix Federation. [b]Over the last day, they have branched out into attacking non-engaged nations as well.[/b]

[/quote]


They hit one nation who was not attacking (or had attacked) a member of TPF, immediately realized their mistake, and offered peace on that war. That is really "branching out" there....

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1296788977' post='2618603']
What about this makes your blood boil?
[/quote]

ML insisting they have the right to declare members of other alliances rogues and prosecute them as such, and further insisting that any retaliation by those alliances is illegal. It's a ridiculous argument - and since I'm sure it's been done before, I'll simply say it was wrong then as well. It's !@#$%^&*, no matter who does it.

[Banksy]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1296790640' post='2618701']
Why wasn't this a recognition of hostilities with all those you are engaged with, instead of just TPF and ML?
[/quote]
When you can't physically attack someone (PM) then why would you make some statement. What's it going to say "We would be at war if you came out and let us fight you?"

[Rebounder]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1296790548' post='2618696']
1) MK/Umbrella/GOONS/FAN [b]declare on[/b] NPO (aggressively)
2) TPF [b]declares on[/b] GOONS (defensively)
3) MK/Umbrella attack TPF ([b]inconspicuously[/b])
4) ML attacks MK/Umbrella (defensively)
[/quote]

I fixed this for you. Quit acting like you didn't purposefully neglect declaring this war to avoid bringing more alliances in.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1296790641' post='2618702']
[color="#0000FF"]Nice knowing you ML. I wouldn't count on Duckroll helping you. It's quite clear that TOP wants them in line with MK.[/color]
[/quote]

Or maybe they don't appreciate your coalitions attempts to try and drag them into the war.

Just a thought.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Taishaku' timestamp='1296790367' post='2618682']
Well, you guys already disqualified the need for a casus belli. Who needs a declaration of war?

And I noticed that Umbrella nations attacked us; the last time I checked, the CCC was not at war with Umbrella. Heck, I don't even know why the Mushroom Kingdom declared on us. Aside from a crusade of bad taste, MK and FOK have no treaties, nor does the CCC and NPO. I mean, seriously, WE WERE ON YOUR SIDE IN KARMA AND TOP-C&G.
[/quote]


Quiet infidel, we do too have a treaty with FOK:http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=52180. MK's incompetent Kommune, Southern INfidelegation, and Mushreich leadership are to blame for not updating the cyberwiki.

As for our Jihad, our holy war on you began with your actions against the good folk (people of the fungus) of FOK.

Edited February 4, 2011 by tamerlane

[mhawk]

[quote name='BDRocks' timestamp='1296790436' post='2618689']
Offensive? TPF declares on GOONS. MK/Umb via Doomhouse attack TPF defending GOONS. I don't see how you can spin this into an offensive war on our part.
[/quote]
Because you offensively with no CB attacked NPO out of the blue. That makes you the aggressors and everyone else responding the defenders to the overall situation.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296789885' post='2618652']
I don't know about Umbrella but all of MK's treaties are non-chaining MDoAPs. We have no reason to try to spin it as "defensive" and not use the optional aggression clauses.
[/quote]
You started spinning this as defensive in Archon's Karma-esque smokescreen DoW.

[quote name='BDRocks' timestamp='1296790436' post='2618689']
Offensive? TPF declares on GOONS. MK/Umb via Doomhouse attack TPF defending GOONS. I don't see how you can spin this into an offensive war on our part.
[/quote]
Then you must be wearing blinders. You started a war by jumping NPO, NPO is on the defensive, it's allies are defending NPO, and their allies are defending them in turn. You don't start a war then start saying "lol we're defending "

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296790453' post='2618691']
It's been stated several times including directly in the OP.

[i]We acknowledge that this has been done without a formal declaration of war, but it is a very small scale engagement which did not warrant cluttering Alliance Politics more than it already has been. It should go without saying that when a bloc-mate is struck, we consider ourselves at war with the entity attacking them.[/i]
[/quote]
Thanks for thinking of the clutter . The simple fact of the matter is that for 5 years alliances have been declaring war in response to attacks and counters on their allies. If you decided that MK and Umbrella are super cool and edgy and you're not doing that, fine, but don't come pissing your pants when people call it like it is.