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Peace in Spite of Time


Xiphosis

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[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1296629789' post='2615871']
I for one just don't like GATO.
[/quote]

Then stop pretending you speak for any allies of GATO. Let us say this again: IAA has no issue with GATO accepting white peace. The sentiment is echoed by LoSS and TIO. . .and I would know this as I have spoken to them in back channels and queries. It's as simple as that.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1296630202' post='2615887']
I'd hate to be on brown if GATO is considered a success story over there.
[/quote]
So you don't want your alliance to last 5+ years, become sanctioned, get 300 members, etc? Good to know you have no aspirations.

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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296629880' post='2615875']
Yeah, I saw this coming. I hate it when people nitpick at the little details and believe that actually reverses my point.

My argument is that IAA literally died for you. That is to say you two [i]should[/i] be basically joined at the hip in regards to friendship. Or that was how it was portrayed to the general public. So why do you care about all this meta-level !@#$%^&* that you're fighting for Polar? You [i]chose[/i] to come into this war not to fight for Polar but to fight for IAA. So why is there all of a sudden an ad-hoc argument that you were burning for Polar?
[/quote]

Simple. IAA and TIO tied their fate to Polar. Which by a simple conclusion of logic would tie our fate to Polar. We never agreed to do that. We were in it to ensure they got a fair peace. They have it but don't want to accept it. That's fine. We'll be here to help when they are done. If we all burned for Polar's sake nobody would be able to help anybody in the end.

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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296630169' post='2615885']
Really? Is that your counter-argument? A good deflection is when you talk about something that is relevant to the point at hand. The fact that I am in Pacifica has absolutely no bearing here.
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not a counter-argument at all.
To say im upset over how everyone is reacting to this, is an understatement. It seems now no matter what GATO does the owf is going to flame it. I don't represent GATO and I never will. So with that, have a nice day.

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[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1296630340' post='2615895']
Simple. IAA and TIO tied their fate to Polar. Which by a simple conclusion of logic would tie our fate to Polar. We never agreed to do that. We were in it to ensure they got a fair peace. They have it but don't want to accept it. That's fine. We'll be here to help when they are done. If we all burned for Polar's sake nobody would be able to help anybody in the end.
[/quote]

Burning for Polar is so noCB war anyways. :P

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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296629880' post='2615875']
Yeah, I saw this coming. I hate it when people nitpick at the little details and believe that actually reverses my point.

My argument is that IAA literally died for you. That is to say you two [i]should[/i] be basically joined at the hip in regards to friendship. Or that was how it was portrayed to the general public. So why do you care about all this meta-level !@#$%^&* that you're fighting for Polar? You [i]chose[/i] to come into this war not to fight for Polar but to fight for IAA. So why is there all of a sudden an ad-hoc argument that you were burning for Polar?
[/quote]

If we in IAA had utterly insisted that GATO remain in the conflict no matter what, they would have stayed. As it stands, we did not oppose their decision. If anything, we supported it because any further fighting would have been pointless. GATO has played it's part and has done it's duty. This is the determination of IAA's gov, as agreed to in private discussion. That is all. End of discussion.

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[quote name='Shadow Slayer' timestamp='1296630248' post='2615890']
Guys, get off GATO's case. They entered the war with a clear purpose, which they fulfilled. They are not abandoning their allies. As mentioned, their allies were informed and in some cases gave wanted them to take the peace.

Defending someone isn't limited to war. GATO achieved what they wanted diplomatically.
[/quote]
GATO's involvement in this war just seems like a waste of time. I am sure that prior to their entry they could have talked to the alliances in this OP and would have received the answer that yes IAA, TIO, and LoSS would get white peace. At that point, GATO could have said to them there is white peace, take it because we are not entering because we won't burn for NpO.

Edited by Jaiar
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296630639' post='2615902']
No. Me being in Pacifica does not lessen the credibility of my rationale.
And I don't think you understand my point either. My point wasn't to use the historical event as a reason for why GATO should "return the favor". My point was that GATO and IAA have always been portrayed as best of buddies from that point on. This is almost common knowledge if you have ever engaged in diplomatic relations with GATO.
It is true that I do not know what IAA and GATO said to each other, but that does not lessen the validity of my point. Which is GATO is abandoning a good friend because they don't want to fight for Polar.
[/quote]
Get off your high horse. Your point isn't valid at all. GATO is not abandoning anyone. IAA gov themselves say you are wrong. Move on.

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[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1296630336' post='2615894']
So you don't want your alliance to last 5+ years, become sanctioned, get 300 members, etc? Good to know you have no aspirations.
[/quote]My alliance has things like Honor, Loyalty, and Bravery, things that make it far greater than GATO.

Oh, and we're going on 3+ years and not leaving anytime soon, but that's besides the point.

The point is, if being a great alliance were as simple as having a bunch of members or millions of NS, alliances like Sparta would be respected as the best alliances in the game. I hope you can see my point.

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[quote name='Shadow Slayer' timestamp='1296630889' post='2615905']
Get off your high horse. Your point isn't valid at all. GATO is not abandoning anyone. IAA gov themselves say you are wrong. Move on.
[/quote]

No. The fact that IAA gov supported the decision does not invalidate my point. If you think it does, I would love for you to show me how. All of my arguments that lead up to show their cowardice remain applicable regardless of what IAA or whatever says. If IAA wanted GATO to leave, understandable. However, magicninja explicitly stated that their reasoning for leaving the war was because they don't want to burn for Polar. Therefore they found the necessity for not burning for Polar more important than helping out a friend. Do you see now? Or maybe you need some more deflections before we get this drilled into your head.

Edited by Jrenster
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[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1296629007' post='2615843']
GOD and TTK have both been a pleasure to fight. I could comment about RIA and CRAP but as I didn't face them personally I can't. I'm sure they were just as honourable, however, if my alliance mates' recounts are anything to go by.

o/ Peace.
[/quote]

Thanks to you and Jsims8 for the fight, even if it was for only several days. You both fought very well, and I hope to fight you guys again some day. Here's to peace!

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If GATO's allies believe that this is the long term strategy that is in their best interest, and they have a good argument for it, then it should stop at that.


Congratulations on peace, and well done on not taking some silly two-war re-entry term.

Edited by Letum
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296631241' post='2615911']
No. The fact that IAA gov supported the decision does not invalidate my point. If you think it does, I would love for you to show me how. All of my arguments that lead up to show their cowardice remain applicable regardless of what IAA or whatever says. If IAA wanted GATO to leave, understandable. However, magicninja explicitly stated that their reasoning for leaving the war was because they don't want to burn for Polar. Therefore they found the necessity for not burning for Polar more important than helping out a friend. Do you see now? Or maybe you need some more deflections before we get this drilled into your head.
[/quote]
And IAA decided to be a good friend and not force their good friend to suffer for someone they're not all that fond of. IAA's quite fine thank you, and doesn't need you hurting its allies.

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[quote name='Rebirth of Gorniar' timestamp='1296631479' post='2615915']
And IAA decided to be a good friend and not force their good friend to suffer for someone they're not all that fond of. IAA's quite fine thank you, and doesn't need you hurting its allies.
[/quote]

You realize that whether or not you gave them permission or you extended them the courtesy to do something does not lessen GATO's actions, right? If the reason for GATO leaving was solely because you didn't want them to be hurting anymore, then you would have a point.

Edited by Jrenster
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296631241' post='2615911']
No. The fact that IAA gov supported the decision does not invalidate my point. If you think it does, I would love for you to show me how. All of my arguments that lead up to show their cowardice remain applicable regardless of what IAA or whatever says. If IAA wanted GATO to leave, understandable. However, magicninja explicitly stated that their reasoning for leaving the war was because they don't want to burn for Polar. Therefore they found the necessity for not burning for Polar more important than helping out a friend. Do you see now? Or maybe you need some more deflections before we get this drilled into your head.
[/quote]

No, you see we had helped them all we could except for the last thing, just burning to the ground alongside them for no benefit to anyone. After achieving all our goals in respect to seeing them get a fair peace all that was left was for us to burn for Polar's sake. Why would anyone stay in just to burn when they have done all they could to ensure the best possible terms for their allies? Far better to let them do what they want and accept peace in their own time and be ready to help them when they do.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1296631197' post='2615910']
My alliance has things like Honor, Loyalty, and Bravery, things that make it far greater than GATO.

Oh, and we're going on 3+ years and not leaving anytime soon, but that's besides the point.

The point is, if being a great alliance were as simple as having a bunch of members or millions of NS, alliances like Sparta would be respected as the best alliances in the game. I hope you can see my point.
[/quote]
GATO honored their treaties and went in on a cause they didn't believe in. They secured peace for their allies. Please, explain to me how staying in any longer could possibly help anyone involved? Burning to the ground as a [u]symbol[/u] is stupid. There is a time and a place for sacrificing yourself; this wasn't one of them.

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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296631241' post='2615911']
No. The fact that IAA gov supported the decision does not invalidate my point. If you think it does, I would love for you to show me how. All of my arguments that lead up to show their cowardice remain applicable regardless of what IAA or whatever says. If IAA wanted GATO to leave, understandable. However, magicninja explicitly stated that their reasoning for leaving the war was because they don't want to burn for Polar. Therefore they found the necessity for not burning for Polar more important than helping out a friend. Do you see now? Or maybe you need some more deflections before we get this drilled into your head.
[/quote]
1. Cowardice is defined as lack of resolution. GATO's resolution was to come into the war to defend IAA, not Polar. Again, they defended IAA through diplomacy. They have ensured that IAA will get a white peace + no reps from RIA when the IAA are ready to step out.

2. Magicninja explicitly stated that their reason for [b]not remaining[/b] in the war was because of Polar. If you read his posts, he does explicitly state (multiple times, cause you don't seem to get it) that the reason they entered the war is because they wanted to make sure IAA's future was protected. It now is. Therefore, they have successfully defended their ally, and can gracefully step out.

I mean, I'm not sure how much clearer we can make this for you. Leaders from all sides are telling you you're wrong, and you sit there telling us that we don't get it? Really? Regardless, if you still disagree, you're beyond hope.

Edited by Shadow Slayer
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