Opinión con Vijay Malik: A Just War?

[zzzptm]

[center][img]http://aohell.com/cn/rann01.jpg[/img][/center]

[i](Screen shows Vijay Malik, Editor-in-chief of "Noticias Republica," the national news network of Republica Himynamistan. Dramatic music plays as the title flashes onscreen: "Opinión con Vijay Malik." The music fades and the veteran newsman begins...)[/i]

Good evening.

The world watches on as the Viridian Entente and its allies make war with New Polar Order. At issue is the question of espionage: did Dajobo, a high government official in the New Polar Order, order a spy to penetrate the ranks of the Viridian Entente and then receive information from that spy? Communications presented by the VE clearly do show Dajobo in a private discussion, in which spying is discussed at some length. Dajobo even admitted that he received materials from VE's private areas, delivered to him by that very person he had a conversation with.

However, I am not convinced that Dajobo was guilty of anything more than poor judgment and failure to exercise due diligence. The spy got into VE quite easily, gained access to sensitive information very rapidly, and disappeared as soon as his work was done - and never faced any discipline from VE, as far as we can tell. Was he a double agent?

Information has come to me from sources including VE's vocal detractor, Schattenmann, that VE had sent a double agent to attempt to get the Cult of Justitia to receive sensitive material from VE's inner areas - and that that spy has also enjoyed a charmed existence in the wake of the revelations surrounding his existence. He was not expelled from VE, but remained a member in that alliance, even as VE accused CoJ of spying. The difference in that case was that Schattenmann exercised good judgment and observed due diligence and did not accept the goods offered him. And that is why the current war is with Polaris and not the Justitians.

Dajobo should have acted with more cognizance of the impact of his decisions and comments, no question about it. But should we condemn Dajobo when he is innocent of any real crime? And if there is a crime here, will its perpetrators see justice, or will they remain protected behind fortifications and front lines?

Is this all a fabrication to draw Polaris out for some sort of summary judgment? If so, this reporter cannot condone such thuggery among nations. It is my solemn hope that the war does not escalate and that the aggressor parties - Viridian Entente and its allies - will allow Polaris to have a white peace. I can dream of a better outcome, but realistically, this is the best I could hope for.

I should make a comment on why I asked so many questions. This is a matter that should have been discussed. The world was given a cause of war and told to rush to judgment based upon it. We should have asked questions, many of them. The information in Polaris' possession, while of major importance, was not of a time-sensitive nature. Indeed, the longer they hold it, the more out of date it becomes. The cause of war arrived at VE's feet far too conveniently and far too neatly - and was acted upon far too quickly - for this to be a cut and dried case of a captured spy revealing his paymaster.

We need to ask questions and hold those in power to a high standard of accountability.

For Noticias Republica, I'm Vijay Malik. Good night.

[Omniscient1]

I think I agree with everything written in this.

[Confusion]

This was definitely something worth reading and something I personally agree with.


Confusion.

[Owned-You]

So should it be found out that VE did in fact orchestrate this war; what should be done? Personally, having played this game for 4 yrs I believe it to be quite boring these days. A war regardless of it's origins or intent would be a godsend at this point. Playing politics and public relations was fun years ago when we didn't yet see an expiration date on this world. But as it continues, it's becoming abundantly clear to many leaders and rulers; myself included. That we will soon hit that date and disappear in an instant. It is imperative for people to realize that a war function was invented in this game for a reason; and it's been far too long since we've used it. So I for one do hope it escalates. If it doesn't, I'd fully support escalating it further by any means necessary. CB's be damned.

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1295404855' post='2582513']
However, I am not convinced that Dajobo was guilty of anything more than poor judgment and failure to exercise due diligence. [/quote]

Poor judgement has oft been the downfall of many a leader. Regardless of circumstances people in leadership positions cant afford poor judgement particularly given the tone toward the alliance in question leading up to the war. If it was a setup he should have been on high alert for something odd or out of the ordinary. Should they be rolled for it? Im not convinced they should, ive certainly seen plenty on the other side cry to the heavens for lack of diplomacy, but its been my expirence this must happen.

It's in the best interest of everyone to have a war and to have a suspect CB. Without it the world continues its slow decline, with it, awareness increases poor judgement turns to attention to detail and the cream rises to the top.

[Illustrious]

Personally I believe whether the war is just or not is past the point. What happened happened, enjoy the war while it last and don't be all butt hurt over how it started. I have my orders, others have theirs, let's do what we all think is right and see what happens in the end.

[Drai]

Yes this has already been discussed in useful threads. Either post a DoW or state that you're not coming in, or don't post anything and let everyone guess. I couldn't care either way, but don't continue to make these 'deep' threads.

[Ardus]

Given Schatt's stated commitment against all things Viridian, I'd take his words with a grain of salt. He's no less biased than any of us and relying on an otherwise unsubstantiated claim is surprisingly naive of you.

[foxfire99]

So let me see if I understand: VE's initial plan was to create a CB against the Cult of Justitia, an insignificant band of fanatics, but failing that, we decided to settle for Polar, the heavily armed fourth ranked alliance in the game. That seems rather unlikely, especially considering that there is no way VE could benefit from attacking CoJ in the first place.

[Hereno]

This sure did need another thread.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1295408004' post='2582616']
Given Schatt's stated commitment against all things Viridian, I'd take his words with a grain of salt. He's no less biased than any of us and relying on an otherwise unsubstantiated claim is surprisingly naive of you.
[/quote]

It's not unsubstantiated. It's material evidence. Yes, Schattenmann is diametrically opposed to Viridia, but even die-hard foes can present legitimate, compelling evidence.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1295408057' post='2582618']
So let me see if I understand: VE's initial plan was to create a CB against the Cult of Justitia, an insignificant band of fanatics, but failing that, we decided to settle for Polar, the heavily armed fourth ranked alliance in the game. That seems rather unlikely, especially considering that there is no way VE could benefit from attacking CoJ in the first place.
[/quote]

Impero and Schattenmann's rivalry is no secret: the benefit from attacking CoJ would be purely emotional, but a motive all the same.

Polaris' status as an alliance took a big hit in the war last year when their actions led to the exposure and defeat of several other alliances. Their move in adding Legion as an ally without informing their other allies was another PR blunder: Polaris' foreign policy situation seems to have left it somewhat exposed, allowing for the possibility of a curbstomp. We know that many alliances would want to see NpO burn, regardless of its armaments or overall ranking. Attacking NpO would be a popular move in the eyes of such alliances, and they would be eager to join in the war to crush Polaris. That would be the benefit of attacking NpO.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1295408004' post='2582616']
Given Schatt's stated commitment against all things Viridian, I'd take his words with a grain of salt. He's no less biased than any of us and relying on an otherwise unsubstantiated claim is surprisingly naive of you.
[/quote]
Evidence has been sent to several interested parties, my staff keep immaculate records.

E: Oh, looky there. If it comes to it, two highly esteemed members of MK can confirm it, I spoke to both of them the night it happened.
E[sup]2[/sup]: Annnnd Nemesis, and Valhalla, and NSO.

One thing we learned in Vox Populi is that our word must be golden, and so we never fabricated screenshots, logs, etc, and we never set out to tell lies. Meanwhile, the Viridian Entente was expending political capital to harbor the infamous master of faked evidence EphriamGrey, for whom VE had gone to war and written [i]carte blanche[/i] for numerous PZIs based on false evidence manufactured by the little man.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Schattenmann

[TheEraser]

I'm going to go ahead and say that Schatts word carries far more weight that Imperos, or really anyone in VE. Schatt doesn't really have a history of lying to get ahead, he has almost usually told the truth in most matter and though there is no love lost b/t myself and he, i'd take his word over the whole of PB any day of the week.


nice piece Zzz questions that need to be asked and not shouted down by the idiots in MK/VE etc.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295410269' post='2582680']
Evidence has been sent to several interested parties, my staff keep immaculate records.

E: Oh, looky there. If it comes to it, two highly esteemed members of MK can confirm it, I spoke to both of them the night it happened.
E[sup]2[/sup]: Annnnd Nemesis, and Valhalla, and NSO.

One thing we learned in Vox Populi is that our word must be golden, and so we never fabricated screenshots, logs, etc, and we never set out to tell lies. Meanwhile, the Viridian Entente was expending political capital to harbor the infamous master of faked evidence EphriamGrey, for whom VE had gone to war and written [i]carte blanche[/i] for numerous PZIs based on false evidence manufactured by the little man.
[/quote]
Now now, [s]Canada[/s] Palmettia has apologized on numerous occasions for [s]Bryan Adams[/s] Ephriam Grey and the Reaganesque oversights that allowed for his behavior.

It's specifically because of such events that I try to take a more critical eye toward explosive claims, though the increasingly repugnant nature of international law begs me to not do so. I never personally saw the evidence, so my position remains unchanged, though I neither expect nor desire you to try and change it.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Ah Vijay Malik, nice journalist that one.

[Sephiroth]

If he knew VE was going to be reading what he said and used as a reason to attack NpO, he probably would of been more careful with his words, but I don't think what he did really counts as spying or an aggressive action by NpO against VE. I think it was more of a situation where PB wanted a fun war and don't care if they have the moral high ground. VE had a good enough to attack if they wanted a war, but not a good enough reason for NpO's allies to not honor their treaties to defend NpO, as I think VE + Allies are still the aggressors even if there is some reason behind them attacking buried in all those logs.

[supercoolyellow]

Hey look, everyone who thinks this thread isn't needed are all on the same side of this war, how utterly shocking.

[SonOfHoward]

If they actually sent a double agent to entrap CoJ that was a big waste of time and that's besides the fact warring against CoJ is hitting way below their weight class.

The rest I don't really care about. There are double agents and spies ever where.

[Darth Revan]

Posts saying things like "we really needed another thread on this" do not add anything to the conversation and are tantamount to spam. If these posts continue they will be subject to warnings.

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1295408057' post='2582618']
So let me see if I understand: VE's initial plan was to create a CB against the Cult of Justitia, an insignificant band of fanatics, but failing that, we decided to settle for Polar, the heavily armed fourth ranked alliance in the game. That seems rather unlikely, especially considering that there is no way VE could benefit from attacking CoJ in the first place.
[/quote]


Well they "pulled the plug" shortly after he was accepted. I'm sure it was very frustrating that he didn't join someone bigger and more connected to give PB the chance to be "defensive".

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1295404855' post='2582513']The difference in that case was that Schattenmann exercised good judgment and observed due diligence and did not accept the goods offered him.[/quote]The difference is Schattenmann was approached about the situation and allowed time to exercise good judgment and observe due diligence. Dajobo was given no such luxury, as Impero began preparations to roll tanks from the moment he says he "found out" about Lennox.

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295405740' post='2582536']So should it be found out that VE did in fact orchestrate this war; what should be done? Personally, having played this game for 4 yrs I believe it to be quite boring these days. A war regardless of it's origins or intent would be a godsend at this point. Playing politics and public relations was fun years ago when we didn't yet see an expiration date on this world. But as it continues, it's becoming abundantly clear to many leaders and rulers; myself included. That we will soon hit that date and disappear in an instant. It is imperative for people to realize that a war function was invented in this game for a reason; and it's been far too long since we've used it. So I for one do hope it escalates. If it doesn't, I'd fully support escalating it further by any means necessary. CB's be damned.[/quote]My oh my, how easy it is for some to throw aside good judgment and friendship in the name momentary thrills.

[cookavich]

Love the glasses, Vijay. Keep up the good work!

[Owned-You]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1295469505' post='2584187']
The difference is Schattenmann was approached about the situation and allowed time to exercise good judgment and observe due diligence. Dajobo was given no such luxury, as Impero began preparations to roll tanks from the moment he says he "found out" about Lennox.

My oh my, how easy it is for some to throw aside good judgment and friendship in the name momentary thrills.
[/quote]

I disagree with your assertion, for the simple fact that I will soon be at an end (OOC - Collage/RL awaits) in this world. The old algorithms I once used to navigate this world have become dry and no longer effective. Thus, why this course has been plotted. For it is far better to die out on the field of battle, then to die on a farm alone ripe with old age (OOC - Fighting in this game one last time, is better then me simply deleting or going rogue.) and filled with rage at things I couldn't accomplish.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295480666' post='2584442']I disagree with your assertion, for the simple fact that I will soon be at an end (OOC - Collage/RL awaits) in this world. The old algorithms I once used to navigate this world have become dry and no longer effective. Thus, why this course has been plotted. For it is far better to die out on the field of battle, then to die on a farm alone ripe with old age (OOC - Fighting in this game one last time, is better then me simply deleting or going rogue.) and filled with rage at things I couldn't accomplish.[/quote]Petty drama, meaningless statistics, and pressing a few buttons every day is not fulfillment nor is it real entertainment. It is a shallow, worthless experience which results in disillusionment, cynicism, and broken dreams. No, real fulfillment and real entertainment come from the relationships you develop with friends, and the communities you help build.

What you, and so many like you, are doing is sacrificing the relationships you've developed over the past three years for the sake of a week or two of button smashing and after peace is made you'll find yourself bored, disillusioned and with infinitely less friends then you had before. Instead, you'll probably find yourself surrounded by a group of arrogant, self-centered pricks who'd rather tear you down to nothing than call you friend.

Congratulations.