It's Official

[NLights]

Who knew that by 2011 text based browser simulators would start to lose steam...

[Kowalski]

I think the community we've created and the way we respond to major incidents have led us down this path. I don't think it's the actual game; no offence to admin but CN has never been the most groundbreaking or exciting game and that was the case when we had 40k players. The two big changes that people were crying for when I first stated playing were navies and the re-introduction of TE, neither of which have added anything at all to this version of the game. If anything TE makes SE more dull because people satisfy their bloodlust and practice war in TE instead of attacking alliances or fighting rogues in SE. The lack of interest there seems to be in improving the game or at least making an effort to advertise or reward current players doesn't help instil confidence to make people want to stay, but the current situation ha been put into place by the players. Too many small alliances that have no connection at all to central alliance politics and the paranoia that has been developed of either losing a major war or being seen to be wrong or immoral has also paralysed military action and lead to the congested treaty web which exacerbates the issue. Too many people on the forums carry weight and respect completely disproportionate to their political standing, players who are impotent to actually enact any changes in alliance politics (and some who I suspect only have a nation so that it allows them to spout their views on these forums). Generally too many alliances have distanced themselves from alliance politics and too many big alliances have distanced themselves from the OWF, and without a vibrant community or central political environment to rally around the game becomes tedious for a lot of people.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1295205111' post='2577407']
We are officially under 20,000 total active nations. Shame. At one point the game was at 40,000....30,000....and now 19,998 active players. Either we get another Jarheads situation or somebody actually does something that makes the game exciting again.
[/quote]
The people at the top had a golden opportunity to make things exciting but chose the boredom and safety of 4 blocs all tied together with dozens of treaties instead.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Alterego

[Balkan Banania]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295247465' post='2578412']
Back then, the game had few alliances; treaties were few, and the separations between factions were very clearly delineated. Now, the game has ten times as many alliances, and they inhabit a treaty web that can only be called an absolute mess. These changes make all the difference, and those of us who were here before Great War 3 are very, very aware of the differences between how things were done then and how things are now. What was once a solid political simulator has been made stagnant and often pointless by the sheer number of treaties signed by so many alliances.
[/quote]

Crymson makes a valid point. From my point of view the problem is not the absolute number of treaties, but the fact that there is no actual political discussion in the OWF.. The back room politics, although necessary, now are the only politics going on. This leaves the OWF a barren place. Several reasons for this, firstly it is the treaty web that dictates people’s opinions and posting. Secondly people tend to take the easy way out of any discussion playing either the morals card or the “do something about it” card. Thirdly there is no polarization concerning “ideologies”, as nobody actually wants to discuss anything. Overall the game is no longer a political simulator, especially during peace time, thus it is only logical for people to quit or/and crave for war.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='admin' timestamp='1295252770' post='2578478']
I remember those days very well. I had the most fun developing the game in the early days, back when an update was simply appreciated instead of something that is debated to death and once implemented, cried over.
[/quote]

Oh sir, you honestly think that people could ever appreciate your hard work without complaint? That would involve actually thinking before they speak, which is clearly a damned impossibility these days.

As I've stated before, I enjoy the game now as I have before, and I appreciate all the work that's gone into the upkeep and maintenance. So you naysayers can claim the game is dying, and that's fine. Go ahead and leave it if that's the case, we're better off without you people anyways.

[auto98]

Referring to the low numbers of unaligned
[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1295246688' post='2578398']
Which is an historic low, and a major contributor to the low total numbers.
[/quote]


Which suggests to me that at least part of the problem is alliances - since it is much harder to stay unaligned if you want to grow than it was when i first started in late 06/early 07, it is at least partly the alliances responsibility* to involve people so that they get interested in the game for more than the logging in, few actions, logging out.

*(OOC responsibility of course)

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='admin' timestamp='1295252770' post='2578478']
I remember those days very well. I had the most fun developing the game in the early days, back when an update was simply appreciated instead of something that is debated to death and once implemented, cried over.
[/quote]

In a new game, people enjoy seeing things change, as it ages, people are abhorred by the thought of having to change their thinking.

I don't know why people were so welcoming back then, other then just kind of a phenomenom, but generally, all change is met by criticism, because unfortunately, people love the status quo, but that doesn't mean they are right, and i think most of them eventually come around.

[Scorponok]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1295206020' post='2577435']
The game is dying. Everyone needs to get over it and try to have some fun before it's completely gone.
[/quote]

This quote, sums up how I feel about it all.

[Vladimir Nikanor]

[quote name='admin' timestamp='1295252770' post='2578478']
I remember those days very well. I had the most fun developing the game in the early days, back when an update was simply appreciated instead of something that is debated to death and once implemented, cried over.
[/quote]
I think too many people want this game to be updated every day. A HUGE part of the reason I play this is because of the simplicity. I'm Active Duty, and I can't play something that is too complicated and takes up too much of my time. I appreciate the simplicity of this, and I think the game is fine the way it is. Sure there could be a few tweaks, but I wouldn't want to see a lot of the things posted in the suggestion forum implemented so I end up having to micromanage my nation to the point of being a number counter.

Point being, some of us do appreciate your work Admin, that's why I came back after 4 years.

[admin]

[quote name='Vladimir Nikanor' timestamp='1295282082' post='2578653']
I think too many people want this game to be updated every day. A HUGE part of the reason I play this is because of the simplicity. I'm Active Duty, and I can't play something that is too complicated and takes up too much of my time. I appreciate the simplicity of this, and I think the game is fine the way it is. Sure there could be a few tweaks, but I wouldn't want to see a lot of the things posted in the suggestion forum implemented so I end up having to micromanage my nation to the point of being a number counter.

Point being, some of us do appreciate your work Admin, that's why I came back after 4 years.
[/quote]
Refreshing. Absolutely refreshing.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='admin' timestamp='1295283062' post='2578662']
Refreshing. Absolutely refreshing.
[/quote]

I think you'll find all of us enjoy this game to some degree but it has so much more potential.

Do you honestly feel this game is complete?

[New Carnoly]

people have mouths and friends, its called talking to them and telling them to start playing. All i have to say.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Carnoly' timestamp='1295284451' post='2578682']
people have mouths and friends, its called talking to them and telling them to start playing. All i have to say.
[/quote]

All of my friends who I told about this game have since quit with the exception of one or two. Why? They couldn't be bothered to keep up with the OWF and wanted to play their own way. Unfortunately nation building on its own is about as fun(and takes just as long) as watching paint dry.

So they left.

[Asa Phillips]

[quote name='admin' timestamp='1295283062' post='2578662']
Refreshing. Absolutely refreshing.
[/quote]
There is a lot more of us that feel this way. Unfortunately, people are always willing to point to bad news and shout from the roof tops what they see as negative... and take the positive for granted with little recognition.

Anything can be altered and improved upon, what people need to realize? is that it is demoralizing to hear negative/whiny feedback over and over again... and motivation to do so goes right out the door after a certain point. To me, there is too much deliberation and back and forth when even the simplest of suggestions is made.

[ddog241]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1295225294' post='2577908']
I suggest a massive free-for-all
[/quote]

amen dude

[KingEd]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1295206020' post='2577435']
The game is dying. Everyone needs to get over it and try to have some fun before it's completely gone.
[/quote]

*cough* someone start a war *cough*

[sammykhalifa]

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1295213481' post='2577668']
Am I the only person who finds these statements completely pretentious and ridiculous? I mean, I guess it's a good thing he made this topic in a universe that uses a base 10 number system, then.
[/quote]

Yeah, and what a coincidence that most of us happen to have ten fingers . . .

[Politician]

This game will be done by the end of this year?

[Mason]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295226401' post='2577923']
It's amazing how many of you resign yourselves to just accepting the supposed unstoppable death of this game. Just keep playing and keep trying to play the game you want to play it. So many things are forced here nowadays, the best things come with time. I remember when Pacifica's hegemonic reign had many thing that a Great War could never happen again. I remember when people felt FAN was done and would never be the same as it was before.

And yet some of you at the first sign of trouble resign yourselves to such a thing. Giving up too easily.
[/quote]

I stopped to quote this post from page 2, without having read the next 3 pages. It's great to have faith, but it's not realistic. I've watched this happen twice now over in admin's other game, Cyber Citizens. I know the outcome. Granted, it seems to be a slower paced decline here due to the larger population. People !@#$%* because we are the ones who care and want to see a rejuvenation of the population and relive the excitement we used to have. But, no, we can't do it alone. The internet is a competitive marketplace, with many new applications since the inception of CN. Not to mention, those other games out there are staffed with teams that constantly update them and look for new ways to keep their games interesting and attractive to newcomers. Whatever his personal reasons, that's not happening here and it WILL see the end of CN. And frankly, for those of us who do care about this game, it pisses us off.

Edit: Say what you will, as the argument has been made countless times, but the best way to accelerate activity and fun is to reset the game.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Zhaan

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Zhaan' timestamp='1295296198' post='2578855']
I stopped to quote this post from page 2, without having read the next 3 pages. It's great to have faith, but it's not realistic. I've watched this happen twice now over in admin's other game, Cyber Citizens. I know the outcome. Granted, it seems to be a slower paced decline here due to the larger population. People !@#$%* because we are the ones who care and want to see a rejuvenation of the population and relive the excitement we used to have. But, no, we can't do it alone. The internet is a competitive marketplace, with many new applications since the inception of CN. Not to mention, those other games out there are staffed with teams that constantly update them and look for new ways to keep their games interesting and attractive to newcomers. Whatever his personal reasons, that's not happening here and it WILL see the end of CN. And frankly, for those of us who do care about this game, it pisses us off.

Edit: Say what you will, as the argument has been made countless times, but the best way to accelerate activity and fun is to reset the game.
[/quote]
A reset may increase activity and fun in the few hundred that stick around, while the rest leave after having their years old nations deleted.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

You want to kill the game quick? A reset is the way to do it.

[Glen MoP]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1295222879' post='2577866']Or maybe he'll just wait for the revenue from the ads and donations to drop below the server and software maintenance costs before yanking the plug.[/quote]

Bingo. It seems obvious to me that the owner has moved on from this game and is just letting it gradually coast into oblivion. I don't foresee him opening it to other developers either. A lot of people who create these types of projects have a very strong sense of ownership and don't want to let go. This can be further complicated when they've continued to develop as programmers and are somewhat embarrassed by the crudity of their earlier efforts; which is also quite common.

Edit:
People have commented that "well, no duh a browser game is dying in 2011" and "How would YOU fix it, genius?" on this and other threads. My answer comes down to a few basic observations.

First, Facebook games are ridiculously popular and often no more complex than CN. Second, Android and iPhone games are ridiculously popular and sometimes no more complex than CN. Some even have very marginal graphics.

Second, a major problem with CN for new players is the barrier to entry. The gap between top and bottom is too big. This can be solved in one of two ways: localizing the pool in which people compare themselves or by closing the absolute gap between biggest and smallest. Either could be implemented pretty easily on CN, as could a third option of a maximum cap on infra and tech. This last sounds apocalyptic, but a cap at 20k tech would effect... 10 nations. One at 15k tech would effect 46 nations. One at 10k would effect 332 nations.

Third, accessibility comes in many new ways. Writing a facebook frontend and/or an Android/iPhone front end would bring in new players. If features were written into these front ends to integrate some rudimentary alliance community communication and tools, the social aspect that draws people into CN could be enhanced.

All of these things, however, require a developer who is still interested in doing development on the game.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Glen MoP

[Shellhound]

More advertising will see a temporary rise in nations, resetting the game might do it, less people will care about going to war with small nations exc. thus causing more excitement, main thing holding all of it together is the community though it keeps active people here and it's active people that will start wars exc. something else that will help the community though is making the forums more accessible, most noobs aren't going to click community to find out "Hey here's the forums!" Maybe something on the front page or a direct link. Also, having the admin on here and posting makes it seem less like a bunch of people playing a game and more like a rather large group of friends, I'm not sure why maybe it's just me. Possible monthly Q&A's or something like that from the admin maybe, or getting on IRC every know and then and talking to members on there through #Cybernations etc. I'm not trying to put any blame on you but it might actually help the forums grow which will result in more activity, and in all honesty that's what we want, sure more people means bigger wars but more activity will result in more wars. All that depends on your willingness and your schedule of course, we all get pretty busy but it can't hurt to try for a little bit .

[Roy the Mighty]

nevermind..

Edited January 17, 2011 by Roy the Mighty

[admin]

I'm a fan of the Dallas Cowboys football team. During the regular season the team was having trouble getting wins. They interviewed one of the players and he said, "We go into these team meetings to discuss what's going on with the team. You go in there with an idea of what the problem is, and then everyone starts giving their input, and you leave the meeting with a sense that the problem is much more worse than it really is."

That's what these threads have become. Everyone is giving their input on the situation, placing blame all over the place and making the problem seem much worse than it really is all the while resolving nothing. This game is 5 years old. I didn't expect it to last 5 months. We still have 20,000 playing the game. Enjoy.