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Official Nordreich Foreign Affairs Dispatch


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This whole thing is massively stupid.

TGE needs to be disbanded; whether internally, or by force. I honestly hate how disbandment has been brought into such a taboo. I felt it made things more interesting. Most decent TGE members I knew are elsewhere (Hi Valdemar!).

Also, who the $%&@ cares where an alliance recruits people from? As long as they keep whatever views they hold out of the game, I don't really care.

I like how Nordreich pretty much is acting like the cool kid here, distancing themselves from someone they feel will just hurt their image later. Their choice though. At least we get drama out of it!

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294285864' post='2565293']
Your standards are lousy as you won't bother to apply them fairly and to all you deal with.
[/quote]

Far be it from me to defend Nordreich on anything, but you clearly don't know your history. NoR is held to a completely different standard when it comes to this issue, and they absolutely made the right decision by dropping the TKoI treaty. Any connection between these particular OOC views and their alliance would be incredibly damaging to their reputation. They've apparently worked hard to shed their old image, and would be stupid to let it be destroyed by a single ill-conceived protectorate agreement.

I look forward to the day when you are forced to get out of your armchair and make tough decisions.

As for the accusations of scheming by TGE, I've seen nothing to confirm it. What I see is Nordreich inferring the worst possible motives because they view the situation through the warped lens of their rivalry (certainly it's not one way). There is always a tendency to view coincidence or laziness as conspiracy. Hindsight has a way of finding patterns that don't really exist.

-Craig

Edited by Comrade Craig
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[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1294338641' post='2566027']
As for the accusations of scheming by TGE, I've seen nothing to confirm it. What I see is Nordreich inferring the worst possible motives because they view the situation through the warped lens of their rivalry (certainly it's not one way). There is always a tendency to view coincidence or laziness as conspiracy. Hindsight has a way of finding patterns that don't really exist.

-Craig
[/quote]

Really? You think it's all coincidence that TGE decided to throw their ex-ally under the bus? I'd be more inclined to hear you out (as ridiculous as it is) if TGE hadn't already made a habit of developing hostilities, spying, and undermining ex-allies, members who leave to form new alliances, or just about anybody else who realizes that they can do better than be associated with TGE.

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[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1294336185' post='2565977']
In short, you step out of this treaty cause of a perons OOC lifestyle?

According to Admins this could get your entire Alliance warned/banned.
[/quote]


If I remember correctly it is up to the alliances themselves to run inter-alliance treaties, deals, and agendas. Therefore no warning or banning would be permitted I would assume. Seeings no rules where broken within CN itself.

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[quote name='Mr Towerman' timestamp='1294328822' post='2565877']
Wonder where they learned the nazi hunting from? Sometimes innocent, loyal members are thrown into that nonsense just for the personal gain of someone not wanting the spotlight taken off of themselves.
[/quote]
I have to agree with this, both Mr Towerman and I know who was behind both the witch-hunts and a lot of the other inquisitions at TGE in the past. So Vlad, as the person who instigated them, you might want to remain a little quieter on that score.

Edited by CnaedmacAilpn
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[quote name='CnaedmacAilpn' timestamp='1294349144' post='2566236']
I have to agree with this, both Mr Towerman and I know who was behind both the witch-hunts and a lot of the other inquisitions at TGE in the past. So Vlad, as the person who instigated them, you might want to remain a little quieter on that score.
[/quote]

Actually neither one of you know what was going on back then or who was behind it. There was a very and I mean a very small select group of folks that knew what was really going on a that time. If you got caught up in it or were treated unfairly then I apologize. Now I will agree that later in TGE's history there were "other inquisitions" that I was completely in charge of and at the time felt they were what needed to be done to protect the alliance and the Kaiser, however hurtful they may have seemed. I also saw the direction the alliance was heading and the leadership or lack thereof that was in place and left and haven't looked back since.

Trying to steer back to the topic at hand in a round about way, Nazi hunting at one time was applauded. After the WS or NS, whatever they are called now, re-rolled and got into positions of power with their current alliances things began to change. The hunting took on a bad light and had become frowned upon, directed mostly by the same ones that were thrown out of TGE. But the loudest dog gets the bone and in this case it began to come back to haunt TGE. That and about a dozen or so political blunders by upper management.

I also agree that even though I do still harbor feelings towards TGE I think its usefulness has run its course and it should go quietly into that good night.

That's pretty much my extent of political dealings now days, I will go back into my cocoon mode and leave these bickering games to those of you that enjoy this type of thing.

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[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1294262301' post='2564672']
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world did you ever think you could fool me?
[/quote]

I love that movie :)

tKoI had it comming

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[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1294338641' post='2566027']
Far be it from me to defend Nordreich on anything, but you clearly don't know your history. NoR is held to a completely different standard when it comes to this issue, and they absolutely made the right decision by dropping the TKoI treaty. Any connection between these particular OOC views and their alliance would be incredibly damaging to their reputation. They've apparently worked hard to shed their old image, and would be stupid to let it be destroyed by a single ill-conceived protectorate agreement.[/quote]
Comrade Craig, let me direct you to this statement below by Nemhauser...

[quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1294288102' post='2565359']

Offsite recruitment was mentioned, so there is no way of telling how many there are in TKoI who came to CN that way. Because we have no insight into who is sincere and who is not, we have canceled the treaty altogether. We've dealt with this stuff before and this time we don't take half measurements.
[/quote]

Comrade Craig, Nordreich is a reformed alliance after disbandment correct? Omni from IAA has stated in the IAA announcement reminding folks of the IAA/tKoI MDoAP still being active that Nordreich has to refute being Nazis/racists and I assume that is what you are alluding to as well. Nordreich themselves have stated that they do not believe it is an alliance wide issue with tKoI. Why not let the new leader of tKoI address the issue before going public with the announcement in the OP? Why did this even need to be public?

Here is what I think and I'll probably get blasted for it. Nordreich wants to shove the racist label on another alliance so that people forget their past. Now when people think of "the racist" alliance, they hope it will be tKoI that comes to mind. They act like they are exposing something awful, yet they have exposed nothing. tKoI has not been accused of bashing it's own members or bashing rulers in other alliances with the beliefs few in the alliance may have. Recruiting from such places may be wrong, but no one knows for sure where any alliances recruit from and the beliefs some members may have.

Further, Nemhauser states that part of the reasoning behind the cancellation is that they don't know how many might be in tKoI...

Nordreich is an alliance that reformed. No one knows how many old members may have different names now, so no one knows exactly how many members Nordreich has that carry the same beliefs as the old Nordreich. How many members currently in Nordreich were in the original? Nordreich has been basically given the benefit of the doubt, they should have done the same for tKoI and advised them to remove those members.

My entire point is that OOC beliefs should not be held against people until they act on those beliefs in a way that harms the alliance membership or other rulers in other alliances on planet bob or none AA nations. Let me make this clear. If someone joins the alliance and says oh by the way I don't like such and such groups of people and basically discriminates against them then don't let them join or remove them if they express those racist views at any point after joining. The whole point is that Nordreich should have let or even asked tKoI to remove those members as a way of helping tKoI by getting bad apples out of the alliance. No one knows who these bad apples are until they show themselves, those that were recruited from that site could have just easily been asked to leave the alliance or told do not express those beliefs in any way shape or form towards alliance mates or other rulers on planet bob or you will be dealt with. To my knowledge no one has been accused of expressing racist views towards anyone, the only accusation is that some came from a horrible site and if they did the option to have them leave the alliance is there.


[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1294338641' post='2566027']
As for the accusations of scheming by TGE, I've seen nothing to confirm it. What I see is Nordreich inferring the worst possible motives because they view the situation through the warped lens of their rivalry (certainly it's not one way). There is always a tendency to view coincidence or laziness as conspiracy. Hindsight has a way of finding patterns that don't really exist.

-Craig
[/quote]
This statement is also my point. Nordreich is making many accusations in the OP and throughout their commentary in this discussion. They are putting attention on other alliances to divert attention from their past. This entire matter should have been done privately and with Nordreich as good ally offering advice to tKoI to remove those members from the alliance. If tKoI refused, then Nordreich could have done the treaty cancellation and with the usual "the reasons were given in private". Instead, they didn't even give tKoI a chance to address the problem and are smearing their name.

Nordreich is making huge assumptions about what TGE was going to do and many ITT are taking it as having actually happened when TGE has done nothing. Could TGE have done something? Sure, but they didn't do anything.

This entire matter should have been private.

Edited by Fernando12
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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294353661' post='2566298']*words*[/quote]

You're missing the point. NoR isn't making this public because they want to shove the "racist" alliance reputation onto someone else. That's just stupid. Reformered NoR has literally [u]nothing[/u] with the racist components of older NoR. They're making this public because of what it means with regards to whether or not TGE told them, as well as notifying others of their distancing from racist components of TKoI. They don't want anyone to have that kind of label, so they're stamping it out before it becomes a big deal.

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From the logs I've seen between TGE and tKoI governments it seems TGE before the cancellation of the protectorate advised and warned tKoI on the matter of certain venues of recruitment discussed in this topic to little success. They were better off when tKoI rallied under NoR banner in any case.

And as far as I know from my discussions with TGE government they didn't know of the accusations "for months".

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[quote name='Lexenstar' timestamp='1294344060' post='2566136']
If I remember correctly it is up to the alliances themselves to run inter-alliance treaties, deals, and agendas. Therefore no warning or banning would be permitted I would assume. Seeings no rules where broken within CN itself.
[/quote]

Mentioning the sheir fact that there is actually anything outside CN is a bannable offense (many have been banned/warned before for it).
This stolen protectorate gets broken/cancelled cause of something someone did completely outside CN.
Not that I care much about it, but its weird how admins can have such double moral standings.

Edited by TheThirdMark
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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294353661' post='2566298']
Nordreich is making huge assumptions about what TGE was going to do and many ITT are taking it as having actually happened when TGE has done nothing. Could TGE have done something? Sure, but they didn't do anything.
[/quote]
We have not made any assumptions. Anything we have said about TGE on this subject has come straight from TGE government itself. The logs, the cover up, the threats of going public, all came straight from TGE government. We have not drawn any conclusions, we have presented the facts of the matter. I have no idea who you are or what your beef with NoR is, but your incredibly thick bias is tainting how you view even the simplest of statements.

As for the rest of your rant, you talk of NoR history but clearly but no idea what kind of headaches this kind of stuff has given us before. Are you aware that the Nordland was attacked over this kind of stuff before? I said it in the OP, but judging from your posts, one could safely assume you skimmed the OP, at best.

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1294356132' post='2566338']
Mentioning the sheir fact that there is actually anything outside CN is a bannable offense (many have been banned/warned before for it).
This stolen protectorate gets broken/cancelled cause of something someone did completely outside CN.
Not that I care much about it, but its weird how admins can have such double moral standings.
[/quote]
This coming from a FOK member has to be the epitome of irony. Please do brush up on your own alliance's history is these matters and the Nordland in particular.

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[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1294357589' post='2566370']
I have no idea who you are or what your beef with NoR is, but your incredibly thick bias is tainting how you view even the simplest of statements.
[/quote]
I am giving my commentary and asking questions as this issue was made public. I have no beef with Nordreich.
I just believe your alliance could have handled this alot better and in private.

Edited by Fernando12
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[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1294356132' post='2566338']
Mentioning the sheir fact that there is actually anything outside CN is a bannable offense (many have been banned/warned before for it).
This stolen protectorate gets broken/cancelled cause of something someone did completely outside CN.
Not that I care much about it, but its weird how admins can have such double moral standings.
[/quote]

OOC: People can be supremacists in the game just like they can be in the real world. Stormfront can also exist in this world, as anything is possible.

IC:

The Kingdom of Italy still maintains relations with others. TGE, you failed at your goal of slandering Nordreich and of isolating your former allies.

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294358207' post='2566384']
I am giving my commentary and asking questions as this issue was made public. I have no beef with Nordreich.
I just believe your alliance could have handled this alot better and in private.
[/quote]

Ask question then and don't assume things. You'd think you would have ran out of tin foil by now.

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[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1294364949' post='2566505']
Ask question then and don't assume things. You'd think you would have ran out of tin foil by now.
[/quote]
I did ask questions. You are just too lazy to read through the topic.

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294365766' post='2566523']
I did ask questions. You are just too lazy to read through the topic.
[/quote]

Buddy, these are my allies you're talking about. I didn't read it because it was bumph but, it's because I actually wanted to read it. Also, did you notice the part when you said, "Here is what I think and I'll probably get blasted for it. Nordreich wants to shove the racist label on another alliance so that people forget their past." please. That was a conspiracy theory and nothing of value. That's actually where you go in the next few paragraphs. Again, put down the tin hat and pick up a note pad.

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[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1294366573' post='2566550']
Buddy, these are my allies you're talking about. I didn't read it because it was bumph but, it's because I actually wanted to read it. Also, did you notice the part when you said, "Here is what I think and I'll probably get blasted for it. Nordreich wants to shove the racist label on another alliance so that people forget their past." please. That was a conspiracy theory and nothing of value. That's actually where you go in the next few paragraphs. Again, put down the tin hat and pick up a note pad.
[/quote]
:rolleyes:

Selective quoting there.

What do you think of Nordreich stating that they canceled because there is no way of knowing how many members with racist views may be in tKoI. Yet, their own history and most likely rerolling of rulers may indicate that even in this Nordreich no one can know for sure how many members Nordreich has from the first version that held questionable views. They apply a standard to tKoI and cancel a treaty. Nordreich should feel lucky that many alliances have given them a second chance, they should have helped tKoI move past this mistake.

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[quote name='Finnish Commie' timestamp='1294354773' post='2566315']
From the logs I've seen between TGE and tKoI governments it seems TGE before the cancellation of the protectorate advised and warned tKoI on the matter of certain venues of recruitment discussed in this topic to little success. They were better off when tKoI rallied under NoR banner in any case.

And as far as I know from my discussions with TGE government they didn't know of the accusations "for months".
[/quote]

So, TGE told TKoI to not recruit off-site? TKoI was better under us or TGE was better for it?



Regards,
Cuba

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294367090' post='2566571']
:rolleyes:

Selective quoting there.

What do you think of Nordreich stating that they canceled because there is no way of knowing how many members with racist views may be in tKoI. Yet, their own history and most likely rerolling of rulers may indicate that even in this Nordreich no one can know for sure how many members Nordreich has from the first version that held questionable views. They apply a standard to tKoI and cancel a treaty. Nordreich should feel lucky that many alliances have given them a second chance, they should have helped tKoI move past this mistake.
[/quote]

I'm sorry for calling you a spade. You're obviously just a club with some odd edges.

What do I think? I think Nordreich is in the right.

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