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Know your Hegemony


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[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1294105893' post='2562493']
UR MOMS A HEGEMONY

That should settle debate on the matter, unless someone employs a "NO U" gambit.
[/quote]

You sir have won post of the year already, my hot coffee almost shot out my mouth

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[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1294132297' post='2562943']
Underdog whining was more entertaining when Vox did it. If you're going to waste all of our time alterego, at least make sure we get a laugh out of it. This was just...well...pointless.
[/quote]

This man speaks from the vast experience having faced the various underdog parties since ...the start?. So I'd say listen to what the man says Alterego ;).

Edited by shahenshah
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[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1294106072' post='2562497']
NPO is more communist then any other alliance ever was. And yet, it is Francoist. Ill leave it to you to figure it out how exactly, its a subject of another topic.
[/quote]
heh that point has been argued about since 2006, but for me personally no amount of walls of text will convince me its true (Eurosoviet wall of text anyone)...

[color="#FF0000"][b]*Cata shrugs[/b][/color]

I suppose one day I will have to join the Order and find out for myself if this claim is indeed true :mellow:

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294094426' post='2562330']The problem is not the new hegemony. It's those (us) on the other side that sit on our asses and just complain.

To all that see themselves opposed to the alliances in the OP:

What are you doing about it? I see nothing being done besides these type of topics that accomplish nothing...Sounds like a silly goal, but making topics like this and making claims from a freaking Toad Stool, or some stupid idiotic Carlos Accords ain't gonna get it done.[/quote]

Fernando is correct. Those opposed to Pandora's Box, Super Friends, MK, etc. seem content to sit around listening to snake oil salesmen who offer nothing but empty words. Like I've said in other places, some of you have wasted a lot of time on propaganda and useless accusations instead of doing the hard work of forming meaningful coalitions to advance your goals.

Some on the other side of the web have put their faith in televangelist types hoping to find the promised land, but it's never going to happen. These preachers are self serving elitists with large egos and only want a steady stream of public hails from those seeking salvation so they can satisfy their lust for attention.

I find the following quote interesting -

[quote name='Schattenman(n)' timestamp='1292534443' post='2541112']My very existence is a refutation of everything that VE is, why bother with the battlefield?[/quote]

I hope that [i]just existing[/i] is not good enough for those of you who want to see change. Though I am considered an enemy to some of you, I would welcome the effort.

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[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1294105893' post='2562493']
UR MOMS A HEGEMONY

That should settle debate on the matter, unless someone employs a "NO U" gambit.
[/quote]
Good sir i am offended by this, we shall meet on the battlefield

also, NO U

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[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1294138074' post='2562987']
Yep.

For the record, my quick reference list of Planet Bob's "Trying Really Hard to Sound Smart" words and phases:

-Draconian
-Ad Hominem
-Straw Man
-Tongue in Cheek
-Paradigm
-Hegemony

Think of it as a field guide of sorts. When you see one of these words above in a pseudo academic or argumentative context, stop reading.
[/quote]

"Honor" and "honorable" could also get tossed in that list, I think.

They don't get chucked around as much as they used to though.

Edited by Aurion
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[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1294168518' post='2563271']
"Honor" and "honorable" could also get tossed in that list, I think.

They don't get chucked around as much as they used to though.
[/quote]
Oh please God yes; they were the worst when Karma came rolling in, but they still get used in every war, pretty much. I can find good uses for some of the words on that list, but I really, [i]really[/i] have trouble finding one for "honor" these days.

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[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1294166213' post='2563223']
Good sir i am offended by this, we shall meet on the battlefield

also, NO U
[/quote]

Cruise missiles at 50 paces. See you there.

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[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1294138074' post='2562987']
Yep.

For the record, my quick reference list of Planet Bob's "Trying Really Hard to Sound Smart" words and phases:

-Draconian
-Ad Hominem
-Straw Man
-Tongue in Cheek
-Paradigm
-Hegemony

Think of it as a field guide of sorts. When you see one of these words above in a pseudo academic or argumentative context, stop reading.
[/quote]

Casus belli, too.

Edited by Penkala
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[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1294159090' post='2563147']
Fernando is correct. Those opposed to Pandora's Box, Super Friends, MK, etc. seem content to sit around listening to snake oil salesmen who offer nothing but empty words. Like I've said in other places, some of you have wasted a lot of time on propaganda and useless accusations instead of doing the hard work of forming meaningful coalitions to advance your goals.
[/quote]

See the qute below:

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1294123365' post='2562817']
[color="#FF0000"]The point that you, and everyone else is missing that hopes to challenge the predominant powers is forgetting an important lesson in history. The overthrow of the Hegemony was as much of a self-destruction as it was destroyed from the outside. It self-destructed because the perception of it by the people involved was altered in a negative fashion, due to the power which it constantly abused. Karma was as much an ethical revolution, as it was a shift in political power. As long as the perception of the predominant alliances is positive, or even apathetic, they will remain in power.[/color]
[/quote]

If you are going to criticise the people on the outside of the power structure, then you should be even more willing to criticise the people on the inside of it, since they actually have power to change things. The people on the outside would have to fight just to get into that position in the first place. Most of the people on the outside now are doing the same things they did back when The Hegemony was in power; keeping their heads down and trying to survive. Starving people have much simpler priorities then looking to the horizon.

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[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1294195983' post='2563821']
If you are going to criticise the people on the outside of the power structure, then you should be even more willing to criticise the people on the inside of it, since they actually have power to change things.[/quote]
What would those currently in power ever want to change? They are in power, what would that change be? Their job is to hold on to power, they just need to maintain the status quo to keep that power.

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1294195983' post='2563821']
The people on the outside would have to fight just to get into that position in the first place. Most of the people on the outside now are doing the same things they did back when The Hegemony was in power; [b]keeping their heads down and trying to survive[/b]. Starving people have much simpler priorities then looking to the horizon.
[/quote]
Many alliances aren't ready for a fight but it's only because most alliances on the opposing side of those in this OP are quite honestly not very good or well built enough to be effective. They don't have large enough upper tiers to win a war. They have had an equal amount of time to build but haven't. Sure MK and others have had reps to help build their tech levels, but that excuse only goes so far. It's been almost a year since Bipolar, yet many alliances haven't made much progress in building up their tech or military wonders. They are indeed just surviving and existing and keeping their heads so far down they can't pick themselves up.

Edited by Fernando12
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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294196936' post='2563844']
What would those currently in power ever want to change? They are in power, what would that change be? Their job is to hold on to power, they just need to maintain the status quo to keep that power.
[/quote]

Not everyone in the 'Core' is the top dog however. Where are the MacBeths or Electron Sponges?

I don't disagree with your second paragraph at all, and I don't think reps help the winners build up faster then others, but it definitely slows down the ones who end up paying. Look at the average tech level of NPO since Karma as one example. You are looking at Natural Selection at work though; the AA's that are currently better at building up, or working the political game have risen to the top. I would also suggest that attitudes have become more hardened since the early days, and people are far less willing to work with other groups "on the other side" then they used to be. That applies to both the stronger and weaker sides equally.

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[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1294197627' post='2563855']
All we do is plot to set IRON up 24/7 erryday.
[/quote]

Plot #398 - "The Honeypot" failed last night. Who knew that IRON would be able to control themselves so well after seeing a half naked llama in fishnet stockings sauntering past them? :(

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OOC: Whenever I hear the word "paradigm," CN never comes to mind. It's always linguistics. :P

Anyway...

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1294199439' post='2563903']
I would also suggest that attitudes have become more hardened since the early days, and people are far less willing to work with other groups "on the other side" then they used to be. That applies to both the stronger and weaker sides equally.
[/quote]Spot on. I can't tell you how many times Mia has complained to me about this. Now I personally have people I call friends on almost every side of the mess that is the treaty web, but I probably wouldn't've been able to get TOOL a good relationship with anyone outside of the so-called "ex-Hegemony" (which is really now several fractured groups that only have loose connection, if even that, to each other) if I tried, because there's that stigma there. And anyone who thought we'd bail on ages-old friends to kiss up to someone would be a fool. Herein lies another problem. People never look just at an alliance anymore, to see how good they'd be as friends. They have to look at allies, and allies of allies, and get stupidly petty about it.

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I just find the "us vs them" mentality hanging around from Karma war kind of amazing. I've seen several people in this thread speak about how those in power have done this and that....
and those not in power haven't built themselves up, aren't creative enough, not scheming enough, etc.

And it just really seems to me to be that people are still looking to fight a war that's been over for a year and a half.

The situation at the moment is that there really is no challengers capable of taking on the existing power structure, and as far as I can gather, no real plans for anyone to take them on.

You really IMO have one megalithic coalition at the top, and then it's fringe supporters...and then...three or four seperate groups operating outside of that treaty web that don't want to operate with each other, have no plans on operating with each other, and have pretty much made up their minds that things are as they are.

This has lead to a sort of Pax Bobica, where there's been a couple minor wars but largely a lot of peace and boredom.

This state of affairs will continue until one of the following things happen:

#1. The ruling coalition fractures.
#2. The 3 or 4 groups band together and decide to take on the ruling coalition.
#3. Both.

I don't see any of those things happening any time soon. Until recently the ruling coalition has done nothing but strengthen it's hold, shows no visable signs of strain, and seems content.

the 3 or 4 groups don't like each other much, have different goals, and don't think they could win a confrontation with those in power. Some of the 3 or 4 want to JOIN the ruling coaltion, not fight it.

Collect taxes and pay bills people. That's all the drama I see for quite some time.

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[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1294261721' post='2564662']
I just find the "us vs them" mentality hanging around from Karma war kind of amazing. I've seen several people in this thread speak about how those in power have done this and that....
and those not in power haven't built themselves up, aren't creative enough, not scheming enough, etc.

And it just really seems to me to be that people are still looking to fight a war that's been over for a year and a half.
[/quote]

Karma War was supposed to be the end of a great crusade, a glorious final battle, but in the end it was anti climatic. I think a lot of people never got over the disappointment.

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