Discussion on Cyber Nation Awards

[supercoolyellow]

I've noticed a lack of any posting about the CN awards. By my memory at this time last year we we're already voting. If we're going to do this, we should get started soon. I think it would be at least healthy to discuss how to do it though.

We of course could go the route we've gone in the past through polls here on these forums. Its most likely what will be done. However, as we discovered last year the concerted efforts of one alliance can be used to overwhelm polls, taking away the Awards credibility, and in some cases voting for the same alliance to receive awards that were mutually exclusive.

I've been thinking about the option of an academy of voters. I think if done right this could work well. The Tabloid Tribune, is doing an academy for their awards, but I see several problems with it. The biggest being the lack of transparency. If we don't know who is voting, or see the discussions, in my mind, that really draws from the format.

Here is the process I have in mind.

1. Decide on Awards, there are awards we could get rid of and awards we could add. I allow people to nominate awards they think they should add and put them up in a poll. The top two awards get added. I also put the awards used last year up and the top two vote getters will be removed from the CN awards.

2. At the same time I start sign ups for the academy. Sign ups would be on a first come first serve basis. I would allow one person per alliance to be in the academy. Alliances in the Amazing Sanctions race would get up to two academy memers, and sanctioned alliances would get three. A list of the academy members would be public, as well as their votes. This should greatly add to the credibility of the award.

[b][color="#FF0000"]But if any one can sign up, some of them will be stupid.[/color][/b]

Sure some will be stupid. However, any system in which the person running the award, will be subjective as everyone has their own difintion of stupid or who should vote. Any system where the alliance selects their academy representatives will get bogged down and never happen for many alliances. Even with this proposed system you will have a lot less stupid people voting then in an OWF poll


3. Threads are started for anyone to nominate a person, or alliance, and anyone can discuss their opinions on the award.

4. The academy then has a particular amount of time in which to cast their votes either by posting in a topic, or PMs. When voting is done, the awards are posted.

What do you all think?

Edited December 27, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[Banksy]

These awards things are so awful, I was quite glad we didn't have one this year. The issue is that everyone thinks the results are unfair. I see that you propose having an academy, this is presumably because you see open voting as increasing the chances of the more active alliances of winning, in some people's view, a disproportionate number of awards. A change in format already shows you see bias in the system and want to instead add a different sort of bias. It illustrates why these competitions are flawed right from the outset.

We're better off without them.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Banksy

[Uralica]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293408231' post='2554750']
These awards things are so awful, I was quite glad we didn't have one this year. The issue is that everyone thinks the results are unfair. I see that you propose having an academy, this is presumably because you see open voting as reducing the chances of the more active alliances of winning, in some people's view, a disproportionate number of awards. A change in format already shows you see bias in the system and want to instead add a different sort of bias. It illustrates why these competitions are flawed right from the outset.

We're better off without them.
[/quote]

Hit the nail on the head.

We're obviously going to have active alliances bum-rushing polls in the case of OWF polls, which leads to results like last year's. On the other hand, having an academy system like the one SCY outlined would only shift the bias to the larger alliances, perhaps leaving equally suitable but less-known candidates out. And seriously, trying to round up someone from every listed alliance as well as active non-listed alliances (like AOD Brigade for example) would be a pain in the neck. It just isn't worth it.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Uralica' timestamp='1293409020' post='2554755']
Hit the nail on the head.

We're obviously going to have active alliances bum-rushing polls in the case of OWF polls, which leads to results like last year's. On the other hand, having an academy system like the one SCY outlined would only shift the bias to the larger alliances, perhaps leaving equally suitable but less-known candidates out. And seriously, trying to round up someone from every listed alliance as well as active non-listed alliances (like AOD Brigade for example) would be a pain in the neck. It just isn't worth it.
[/quote]
Like anyone would vote YOU for anything

but srsly, the big alliances would run away with the polls anyway..unless the smaller AA really deserves it ala Corp as best rookie AA last year. Maybe do a bit of both have an academy of however many people AND OWF polls. the OWF polls count for X amount of vote while the academy the rest. this way we can have the debate of why you deserve this award here on the forums which could inturn help the way one person votes or whatever

/me shrugs

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1293409441' post='2554758']
Like anyone would vote YOU for anything

but srsly, the big alliances would run away with the polls anyway..unless the smaller AA really deserves it ala Corp as best rookie AA last year. Maybe do a bit of both have an academy of however many people AND OWF polls. the OWF polls count for X amount of vote while the academy the rest. this way we can have the debate of why you deserve this award here on the forums which could inturn help the way one person votes or whatever[/quote]

This is an intersting idea, what do you think would be a good mix?

[quote]/me shrugs
[/quote]

Channeling Londo I see

Or does Londo channel you?

[Hyperbad]

eh, never really saw a point in the awards myself so I never took part in either the voting or submitions. Still, if others find it a fun thing to do, by all means go for it.

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1293409441' post='2554758']
but srsly, the big alliances would run away with the polls anyway..unless the smaller AA really deserves it ala Corp as best rookie AA last year. Maybe do a bit of both have an academy of however many people AND OWF polls. the OWF polls count for X amount of vote while the academy the rest. this way we can have the debate of why you deserve this award here on the forums which could inturn help the way one person votes or whatever

/me shrugs
[/quote]
And/or have an equal number of people from different sections of the web with the most level headed reputation form the "academy". It of course would still be highly flawed merely on the basis of who you select and why you view them as level headed.

[SirWilliam]

The awards mean nothing, so the manner in which winners are decided matters little in my opinion. Whether through public polls or a select academy people will be biased or otherwise make uneducated/ridiculous votes.

[Kevanovia]

I would like to have them, if nothing else it continues tradition. If we kill this off, that's just one less thing CN has. (The snowball effect can start with the smallest event)

[Sir Paul]

Way ahead of you. From [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=96163]Issue #160[/url] of the Tabloid Tribune on Dec 23, 2010:

[b]Applications Open for CN Academy Members[/b]
[img]http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8733/academyawards.jpg[/img]
[i]Who will take home the Admin®?[/i]

[b]Capital City, SIR PAUL[/b]: Each year, the Cybernations Academy Awards gives out coveted prizes and titles to deserving alliances, nations, and individuals for outstanding achievements in the field of playing the great game. Unlike other awards systems plagued by ballot-stuffing, the CNAA is a merit-based awards system where members of an anonymous Academy representing all walks of life deliberate and discuss who truly deserves the title of “best.”

The Academy has announced that recruiting for the 2010 awards panel has begun. Applicants should be somewhat versed in the events of 2010 and be willing to act as an objective members of the panel in search of truth. Panel members are sworn to secrecy about their membership in the panel as well as their votes and any correspondence, and should expect to spend 5 to 15 hours on the 2010 awards. Panelists from previous years are eligible, but new applicants to the academy are given priority. Priority is also given to representatives of historically under-represented affiliations.

Those wishing to become a panelist should send an application to Sir Paul, with the following information:
[list]Name and Nation.
Current Alliance and past three affiliations.
Statement on why you are qualified to be a panelist.
Statement on why you wish to be a panelist.
Statement agreeing to hold all members and proceedings secret.[/list]
The deadline for panelist applications are January 20, 2010.

If you'd like to see a replay of last year's ceremony, you can visit it [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=82370&st=0&p=2218945&fromsearch=1&#entry2218945]here[/url]. Until then, see you at the Admins®!
-----
Written by Sir Paul
The Tabloid Tribune - One step ahead of the Truth
Proudly Part of MMM

[Fernando12]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1293417714' post='2554904']
The awards mean nothing, so the manner in which winners are decided matters little in my opinion. Whether through public polls or a select academy people will be biased or otherwise make uneducated/ridiculous votes.
[/quote]
You mean just like the real Oscars, so then I say why not.

[Banksy]

Yes, no one reads the Tabloid Tribune. They just read the 'contents' section and the ensuring praise/criticisms.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Banksy

[Monster]

Make both.

[Sarmatian Empire]

meh, Legacy wins best new AA anyway, so who cares

[Sandwich Controversy]

We cannot turn our backs on democracy and embrace the opinions of biased oligarchs. Keep it as it was.

[Monster]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1293459525' post='2555261']
We cannot turn our backs on democracy and embrace the opinions of biased oligarchs. Keep it as it was.
[/quote]
[img]http://www.modacity.net/forums/styles/smilies/emot-ironicat.gif[/img]

I still like doing both since it's like the art awards thing.

[Prime minister Johns]

We should have both. A people's choice award and an award that a panel of judges awards, with a lengthy explanation as to why they are giving it to that person.

This way we will get the best of both worlds, and if you don't like one you can ignore it and pay attention to the other.

[supercoolyellow]

Right now I'm leaning towards starting the awards tomorrow doing a a 50/50 voting as proposed by some players here.

[Schattenmann]

I say just let me choose all the winners

[JT Jag]

I don't see the problem with there being both a people's choice awards and an academy awards.

[eyriq]

Let team color senators comprise the academy.

[Mathias]

[font="Georgia"]You're never going to find a "fair" way to determine these awards. No matter what system you devise, the same alliances will have the upper hand. Someone should just step up and start running this already the way it's always been run. Here's the solution to the "unfairness": Don't put so much stock in obviously biased awards. If you really need someone to pat you on the back, find an ally.[/font]

[Crowdog07]

[quote name='eyriq' timestamp='1293482766' post='2555448']
Let team color senators comprise the academy.
[/quote]

So only a few alliances can vote? Just because someone is a senator doesn't mean they're involved in politics. (notjoke)

This is literally worst idea.

[Duncan King]

I think going away from a poll is a good idea, actually. Polls are easier to rig and using an academy lessens the ability of an alliance to tweak the voting system and win mutually exclusive awards.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

I like the academy idea, but I think instead of basing it on score it should be based on alliance membership numbers. Then it would be more representative of the community.

[KingEd]

We need CN awards - the Christmas war failed...and the GOD/GOONS drama is already dead. We need something moar to argue over...