Backroom Extortion is Back

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289274412' post='2507172']
Okay, for the moment, let's just pretend that the claim that we've ~become the monster~ and we're just as bad as you guys when you were in power isn't a blatant falsehood. If it's correct, why should anyone care when the alternative to us is a reversion back to the old hegemony, which is apparently just the same? What's the impetus for change?

Just curious on how anyone still thinks claiming 'you're the same as us!' is a good strategy.
[/quote]

So you're rebuttal to me is that no one should care because you are only doing what the 'old' hegemony did... "Our acts are no more foul than the previous regimes!"

so then lets get this right....

-The 'old' hegemony did immoral and heinous acts that made it an entity that needed 'punished' and 'destroyed' doing acts for lulz and to combat boredom

-You and your cronies expressed outrage and anger calling for 'change'

-Change happens

-'new' hegemony does despicable and retarded acts for lulz and to combat boredom

-The hypocricy gets pointed out

-You response? "nothing to see here move along" "Its OK because were doing the same thing we cried about others doing before"


LMAO Oh the HUMANITY!

[Denial]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289347376' post='2508674']
So you're rebuttal to me is that no one should care because you are only doing what the 'old' hegemony did... "Our acts are no more foul than the previous regimes!"

so then lets get this right....

-The 'old' hegemony did immoral and heinous acts that made it an entity that needed 'punished' and 'destroyed' doing acts for lulz and to combat boredom

-You and your cronies expressed outrage and anger calling for 'change'

-Change happens

-'new' hegemony does despicable and retarded acts for lulz and to combat boredom

-The hypocricy gets pointed out

-You response? "nothing to see here move along" "Its OK because were doing the same thing we cried about others doing before"


LMAO Oh the HUMANITY!
[/quote]
Yeah, that's not what I said at all.

But okay, keep up with your "you're just as bad as us!" strategy. It sounds like it's been working out well for you!

[The MVP]

[quote]OOC: And about time if you ask me. Please, do keep it up. I do appreciate it to be honest. [/quote]

Some of you really need to just sit back, relax and appreciate the fact people are trying to stir things up around here.

[King Death II]

Hurrrr MK took my advice: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?&showtopic=94470

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='King Death II' timestamp='1289351435' post='2508758']
Hurrrr MK took my advice: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?&showtopic=94470
[/quote]
Yes. Archon gets all of his political ideas from King Death II, his greatest tutor.

Meow.

[King Death II]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289354398' post='2508829']
Yes. Archon gets all of his political ideas from King Death II, his greatest tutor.

Meow.
[/quote]


I am a god among men

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289348457' post='2508687']
Yeah, that's not what I said at all.

But okay, keep up with your "you're just as bad as us!" strategy. It sounds like it's been working out well for you!
[/quote]

Actually the ancient regime did it better...if you're copping to being the bad guys, as such you're not even "Initiative Light".

Fact is all the good vs. evil crap was just that, crap. Don't get me wrong, I've always said NPO should have been taken down a few notches for the good of the order, but anyone who thinks the result is fairies and unicorns and justice for all will personally get laughed at in their face by yours truly. A few dreamers thought we might be able to get there once upon a time...they wised up long ago.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289348457' post='2508687']
Yeah, that's not what I said at all.

But okay, keep up with your "you're just as bad as us!" strategy. It sounds like it's been working out well for you!
[/quote]

Ah yes. You have a sound strategy also.....downplay and marginalize the actions of the current regime and your cronies in order for them to seem 'not so bad' or 'ok'.


Whats the next excuse? Were stronger then you so deal with it?

thats my guess...

Edited November 10, 2010 by chefjoe

[tamerlane]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289413039' post='2509466']
Ah yes. you have a sound strategy also.....downplay and marginalize you and your cronies actions in order for them to seem 'not so bad' or 'ok'.


whats the next excuse? Were stronger then you so deal with it?

thats my guess...
[/quote]
You would know better than we would.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289413261' post='2509470']
You would know better than we would.
[/quote]

Yep you are correct, you are following an OLD playbook. Used and discarded....

Not only are you guys mostly full of hypocricy and BS regarding reality, but you are also uncreative and tread a path that has been tread before(remember your outrage then? lol)

Seems to be no outrage in your ranks now when you are on the power side eh?

Edited November 10, 2010 by chefjoe

[tamerlane]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289413583' post='2509475']
Yep you are correct, you are following an OLD playbook. Used and discarded....

Not only are you guys mostly full of hypocricy and BS regarding reality, but you are also uncreative and tread a path that has been tread before(remember your outrage then? lol)

Seems to be no outrage in your ranks now when you are on the power side eh?


[/quote]


Actually there was plenty of outrage in our ranks over the way initial contact but not nearly as much as the way RV handled the issue.

Ill play along though... sure bro, you got us [i]pegged[/i].

Edited November 10, 2010 by tamerlane

[chefjoe]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289413981' post='2509484']
Actually there was plenty of outrage in our ranks over the way initial contact but not nearly as much as the way RV handled the issue.

Ill play along though... sure bro, you got us [i]pegged[/i].
[/quote]

LMAO

dude, did you read my other posts?

you just did EXACTLY what I said above.....marginalize, spin, downplay and then a little attempt at distraction thru veiled insult.

truly hilarious....



also, I have no doubt there was outrage in your ranks over initial contact.....outrage at the fact that NSO questioned you im sure. Then more outrage at RV trying to scapegoat him for what is at its purest form you and your .gov strong arming a weaker alliance.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289414867' post='2509496']
LMAO

dude, did you read my other posts?

you just did EXACTLY what I said above.....marginalize, spin, downplay and then a little attempt at distraction thru veiled insult.

truly hilarious....



also, I have no doubt there was outrage in your ranks over initial contact.....outrage at the fact that NSO questioned you im sure. Then more outrage at RV trying to scapegoat him for what is at its purest form you and your .gov strong arming a weaker alliance.
[/quote]

Yes, yes! You've got us man! I'm obviously spinning this, something you are absolutely incapable of doing in this situation because you are an honest broker in this affair with no prejudices whatsoever. Guess its time to pack it all up and head home.

[Buds The Man]

Extra butter anyone.

@denial The funny thing the way i read it is that your hatred of Joe has made you prove his point.

MKs perceived power forced a less powerfull alliance in to doing something they really didnt want to do. MK is spinning it as its NSOs fault they are in this situation. This is exactly the crimes Valhalla has been taken to task over from the past. CJ makes a solid point its out of an old playbook that has since been discarded. Own up to the mistake, make it right, or the piper will eventually have to be paid. (no this is not a threat but historically it is a fact)

(RV admittedly saw an oppurtunity here to hammer MKs pr so by doing so may have one the battle as 15 mill 250 tech would be worth causing issue to what is a perceived opponent of the future. So yes in this fiasco RV does hold some responsibility but as Tyga pointed out if MK wouldnt have started this there wouldnt be a problem.)

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1289425006' post='2509644']
Extra butter anyone.
[/quote]

Absolutely now that some of you Valhalla boys are in here romping around and going on about hypocrisy, yeah thats going to be highly entertaing for at least another 3 pages.

[quote]MKs perceived power forced a less powerfull alliance in to doing something they really didnt want to do. MK is spinning it as its NSOs fault they are in this situation. This is exactly the crimes Valhalla has been taken to task over from the past. CJ makes a solid point its out of an old playbook that has since been discarded. Own up to the mistake, make it right, or the piper will eventually have to be paid. (no this is not a threat but historically it is a fact)[/quote]

This bit was particularly entertaining, really the only relevance you all seem to have to this issue is your desire to point out you did the same thing in the past and paid for it. The old playbook hasnt been discarded, it worked then its working now, sure someone will have to pay eventually but what are we looking at 1 year out? 18 months?

You all seem to have the expirence and are front and center, how long will the players this time around use the old playbook effectively?

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289415523' post='2509502']
Yes, yes! You've got us man! I'm obviously spinning this, something you are absolutely incapable of doing in this situation because you are an honest broker in this affair with no prejudices whatsoever. Guess its time to pack it all up and head home.
[/quote]

I'm loving these character attacks.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1289430477' post='2509718']
I'm loving these character attacks.
[/quote]

You call that a character attack?

[Mirreille]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289269885' post='2507002']
The choice the NSO made here was to use the conversation for a PR war (see: this thread). RV knew perfectly well we weren't going to roll him for asking to reduce the price to a more reasonable level.
[/quote]

Cosidering NSO got rolled not to long ago over a matter of $6M and a officer underestimating the threat you might think they would be a litle gun shy right about now. Once you rejected the normal route of dropping the member(and the $3M for the harbor?), I am not surprised that NSO assumed the worst, especially with the initial figure requested. Also, this is RV you are talking about. I have no idea why you think you knew what his response was going to be, RV is anything but predictable. If you had not gone with that outrageous number in the first place, RV would have had nothing to run to the forums with. None of the arguments presented here have given anyone a reason to agree with you that the demand was reasonable.

No you are not montsers, and I can even believe Denial, et.al. when they say you all had no intention of rolling them. You seem incapable of seeing things from their perspective though, and I doubt you would have been displeased if a reason for war with them presented itself.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1289269976' post='2507004']
NSO is an alliance that cannot be communicated with by anybody on the "opposite side of the web". It isn't for a lack of our trying. Every effort to get questions answered is deliberately resisted. Every suggestion or request is trumped up to extortion. Every reasonable and expected request flatly denied. [/quote]

I think I saw a \m/ member in here saying that dealing with them was not that difficult; are they on the opposite side of the web from you?

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289270387' post='2507024']
I can't think of a single scenario where the aggrieved party has demanded more than they're going to get.
[/quote]

There are some people in Gramlins who would probably disagree with you.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289415523' post='2509502']
Yes, yes! You've got us man! I'm obviously spinning this, something you are absolutely incapable of doing in this situation because you are an honest broker in this affair with no prejudices whatsoever. [b]Guess its time to pack it all up and head home.[/b]
[/quote]

Be the best choice you will make this year for sure

Especially if all you can continue to do in order to refute me is continue the typical MK campaign of derision and dismissal...

:yawn: Old tactics of spin r old


Edit- @Tamerlane specificly....Yes Zombie glauson called your infantile post above a character attack.....why? Because it WAS one lol. You though in typical MK fashion answered him the same way you answer most posts here......derision, dismissal and in this case trying to allude it isnt some character attack because in your opinion it isnt a very 'bad' one. FYI the truth is the insult wasnt a very GOOD one lol

Edited November 11, 2010 by chefjoe

[tamerlane]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289505381' post='2510580']
Be the best choice you will make this year for sure

Especially if all you can continue to do in order to refute me is continue the typical MK campaign of derision and dismissal...

:yawn: Old tactics of spin r old


Edit- @Tamerlane specificly....Yes Zombie glauson called your infantile post above a character attack.....why? Because it WAS one lol. You though in typical MK fashion answered him the same way you answer most posts here......derision, dismissal and in this case trying to allude it isnt some character attack because in your opinion it isnt a very 'bad' one. FYI the truth is the insult wasnt a very GOOD one lol
[/quote]

Thats right, stand tall and keep a stiff upper lip.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1289413583' post='2509475']
Yep you are correct, you are following an OLD playbook. Used and discarded....

Not only are you guys mostly full of hypocricy and BS regarding reality, but you are also uncreative and tread a path that has been tread before(remember your outrage then? lol)

Seems to be no outrage in your ranks now when you are on the power side eh?


[/quote]
I'm sorry but I thought we were asking for something that had never been done when we went with "reps for a broken trade circle". At least, that's what your friends were saying in the first 35 pages of this thread.

I mean, it's hard to be original without trying too hard nowadays. Everything has been done. We know you guys are waiting for us to set a new trend so we'll try not to disappoint.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[Captain Flinders]

I'm sorry to cut corners here but instead of having to scour this entire thread for the answer, could someone tell me how this aid thief of sorts being kicked from NSO after his transgressions is any different than, hypothetically, an NSO member going rogue on MK and subsequently being removed? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the situation and why it warrants such a demand of reparations from the NSO when really, this isn't anything new.

[EglanorBisLarajosep]

quote: <Yevgeni> If it heals your mind and makes you live at peace with yourself for accepting this blatant extortion, then be my guest and lecture us.

In my mind this says it all. MK knew going in that the amount they wanted was extortion, and never should have been asked. I myself have in the last month paid out 3 mil to three different nations for harbor aid, and two of them took the money and then didn't make the trades they promised to make. Have I asked my alliance to make claims for extravagant amounts? No. Have I asked what I should do about it? Yes. I was told it happens every day, and I should just let it go. So, I let it go. And as a trademaster in the Legion, I will continue to approach new nations and offer/give them harbor aid. If I get stiffed again, I will shrug it off, which is what MK [b]should[/b] have done in the first place. If they had acted with restraint and maturity, none of this would have happened. *shrug* I'm not involved in this, and I could care less whether MK gets its's rediculous payment or not. I have just spent hours reading through this entire thread, and from what I see, even MK has members who agree that the amount was obscene, and that they were in the wrong. The mature thing here would be to drop the whole thing. Attack the nation that actually did something, or not, but stop saying NSO is responsible for a member they [b]kicked out[/b], and let's go on to something of actual merit in the world we live in.

[lebubu]

[quote name='EglanorBisLarajosep' timestamp='1289515467' post='2510663']
let's go on to something of actual merit in the world we live in.
[/quote]

Like what?

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1289510571' post='2510624']
I'm sorry to cut corners here but instead of having to scour this entire thread for the answer, could someone tell me how this aid thief of sorts being kicked from NSO after his transgressions is any different than, hypothetically, an NSO member going rogue on MK and subsequently being removed? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the situation and why it warrants such a demand of reparations from the NSO when really, this isn't anything new.
[/quote]

Read the rest of the thread to understand why this kind of opinion makes you A COMPLETE MONSTER. Booping moralists.