Backroom Extortion is Back

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Here's a little tidbit from Heggo. For you newcomers to the party, feel free to read this first.[/color]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289256962' post='2506638']
You know, I've thought about this topic, and I've realized something: MK actually usually are really great people. Perhaps we just had a misunderstanding. Perhaps someone in their government just made a mistake, and accidentally thought that each member of that trade circle payed our ghost 3m/50t, thus making their request for 15m/250t perfectly reasonable. Now, I'll gladly pay out the full 15m/250t myself if it turns out this wasn't just a misunderstanding, but for now I'll just stick with having sent the 3m/50t so MK wouldn't have to go to the trouble of sending the extra money back later after the issue is cleared up.

Oh, and I'd like a response from MK gov about this- regular MK members simply aren't enough to resolve the question of whether or not all we had here was a plain everyday misunderstanding. You know, I understand that disagreements happen and hope that we can all work past our pride and come to a clean and nice conclusion here.
[/quote]

--------------------


[color="#0000FF"]You folks best be sure that none of your members cancel on an MK member while they're back collecting. You do that, you might just have given them a CB. It's either than or enough cash and tech to satisfy them.

And before you ask, kicking them won't make them happy. You got to pay on up.

Before you ask, no, I don't expect this to end too well, but I guess that's just part of my charm. Here's some unedited logs for you folks.

[quote]#talktome
[INFO] Channel view for “#talktome” opened.
-->| YOU (Rebel_Virginia) have joined #talktome
<Epiphanus> just a sec
-->| Yevgeni (*removed*) has joined #talktome
<Yevgeni> Gentlemen.
<Rebel_Virginia> I'd like to see some sleep tonight, so please don't take your time.
<Epiphanus> Ok yev he wants to know the basics of the situation
<Epiphanus> minus anything the other two said
<Yevgeni> God, no offense, you Siths need to talk to each other.
<Epiphanus> you fill in the details of the transaction
<Yevgeni> That said, basic is:
<Yevgeni> I'm MK's Baron of Tech and Trades. So it's my job to kinda look out for missing trades, complete our TCs and all. I did it for one of our members, who has a TC with other MKers (and long term allies). They were missing Coal-Gold. I got a positive reply from one of your members, Lord Revan. My message promised him 3m for a harbour if he traded with us and asked him to move to Aqua, etc.
<Yevgeni> He moved to Aqua, asked for the targets, cleared his things. I gave him the targets, of course. Then he accepted the 3m. And well, decided to just cancel the trades.
<Yevgeni> And essentially give us the middle finger.
<Rebel_Virginia> I see.
<Rebel_Virginia> And when did this happen?
<Yevgeni> He knew, by my messages, that many people in the TC counted on him as they were nearing 20 days sleds and needed to collect. His sudden cancellation and bad attitude $%&@ed up some of these and, really, there's just a breach of trust and a misuse of the funds.
<Yevgeni> Yesterday.
<Epiphanus> So, we talk to lint, who confirms (and we confirmed as well he was masked as an acolyte) he was masked on your boards
<Epiphanus> up until earlier when one of your underlings unmasked him
<Rebel_Virginia> Do you have a nation link?
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=426494
<Rebel_Virginia> Big Jeff is the one that sent him the money for the trade circle and the harbor?
<Yevgeni> Yes. Aloha. Our protectorate.
<Yevgeni> By our request.
<Rebel_Virginia> I see.
<Rebel_Virginia> Well, I ain't too fond of idiots like that taking money.
<Rebel_Virginia> Not sure what he was thinking, but we won't be protecting him. He's on his own.
<Yevgeni> Your subordinates didn't inform you of our demands, did they?
<Rebel_Virginia> Yes, you want him to pay 3 mil and 50 tech to each of those he wronged, no?
<Yevgeni> Him or you. We consider NSO responsible as he was, up until a hour ago, one of your members by all standards.
<Rebel_Virginia> And I disagree.
<Rebel_Virginia> We ain't sheltering him, and we ain't supporting him.
<Rebel_Virginia> He violated some of our rules.
<Yevgeni> So, you do recognize that he was a member of yours?
<Yevgeni> Because we just spent a hour arguing with your two colleagues about his membership. They denied he was a member, despite overwhelming evidence pointing to the contrary.
<Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, he was a member. He shouldn't have been, but due to oversights he was never demasked or formally removed.
<Yevgeni> Assuming he was a member up until a hour ago, he did what he did under your banner.
<Yevgeni> And, as such, as obviously he is completly unable to pay, it is up to you to pay for his mistakes. That's how alliances work and you do know that.
<Rebel_Virginia> And how much do you want?
<Yevgeni> 3m-50t for each of the trade partners.
<Yevgeni> So 15m-250t.
<Yevgeni> Shouldn't be too complicated, a single nation can pay that within a single cycle.
<Rebel_Virginia> You'll get your money, but know we ain't happy about it.
<Yevgeni> Understood. If I may offer a word of advice, next time, tell your colleagues not to try to take the other party for complete morons.
<Rebel_Virginia> Is that supposed to mean something?
<Yevgeni> That whole episode where they denied the guy's membership was really ridiculous.
<Rebel_Virginia> Are you a bit upset that you did not get the respect you believe you're entitled too?
<Rebel_Virginia> Just out of curiosity, what if we did refuse to pay?
<Yevgeni> When I deal with another alliance, I don't expect them to try to !@#$%^&* me about the status of one of their long-time members.
<Yevgeni> Much less spend one hour denying overwhelming evidence.
<Rebel_Virginia> Now, what about my other question?
<Rebel_Virginia> Also, if he was more or less a masked ghost.
<Epiphanus> Well that really depends, what matters is you are paying.
<Yevgeni> It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay. We made a reasonable request and we never expected you to act like idiots about it and make a huge fuss out of it.
<Rebel_Virginia> You think this kind of shady back room extortion is reasonable?
<Yevgeni> Shady back room?
<Epiphanus> I woudln't call this extortion at all.
<Rebel_Virginia> Exactly.
<Yevgeni> This is a private room. Nothing shady or backhanded about it.
<Epiphanus> If that's the line you want to play, go ahead.
<Rebel_Virginia> Well, I am sure you would if you were on the other end.
*kevin32891* talk to this guy
*kevin32891* Yevgeni
<Epiphanus> No, MK owns up to it's masked members actions
<Rebel_Virginia> And so do we.
<Yevgeni> If I had been on the other end, this would have been over hours ago. I'd have bargained for a reduction and accepted to pay a small sum for my mistakes.
<Rebel_Virginia> Which is why we're paying.
<Epiphanus> So I don't see how this can be construed as extortion.
<Rebel_Virginia> Like I said, this is more or less a masked ghost.
<Yevgeni> Masked ghosts do not exist.
<Yevgeni> They're members or they're not.
<Epiphanus> ghost or no ghost, he is masked
<Rebel_Virginia> You want to bicker or semantics all night?
<Yevgeni> You said he was a member, as such, his actions are yours to assume. That's all there is to say.
<Rebel_Virginia> You know exactly what I'm saying.
<Yevgeni> Well, we're not the ones arguing about "masked ghosts".
<Yevgeni> Which sounds awfully like semantics to me.
<Epiphanus> No, seriously RV. If MK were in the same situation we'd pay.
<Rebel_Virginia> Play ignorant all you want.
<Rebel_Virginia> And the NSO is paying.
<Epiphanus> Nothing to do with semantics.
<Epiphanus> Ok well then we are done here.
<Rebel_Virginia> Well, I'm not.
<Yevgeni> What else do you need, then?
<Rebel_Virginia> I fought against crap like this before.
<Rebel_Virginia> I'm not afraid to do it again if I have to.
<Epiphanus> This is hardly extortion.
<Rebel_Virginia> It's not about the amount.
<Rebel_Virginia> It's the principle of the matter.
<Epiphanus> Oh so it's about a masked member of your forum wronging MK and an MK protectorate
<Epiphanus> and somehow us wanting to get paid for the matter makes us the bad guys
<Rebel_Virginia> You see, I have no delusions about the NSO's position. We're in a !@#$%* one.
<Epiphanus> I see your line.
<Rebel_Virginia> Epiphanus: You mind shutting your trap for a moment and letting me finish?
<Rebel_Virginia> I may be many thinks, but I at least have the manners to not talk while others are speaking.
<Rebel_Virginia> I'm a gentleman above all else.
<Yevgeni> So we get a ranting about your principles in exchange for the reparations we asked?
<Epiphanus> Heh, please continue fine sir.
<Rebel_Virginia> Yev, you're getting your money.
<Rebel_Virginia> That much has been made clear.
<Rebel_Virginia> But as I was saying, the NSO ain't the most popular bunch, and we don't have allies in the best of positions.
<Yevgeni> If it heals your mind and makes you live at peace with yourself for accepting this blatant extortion, then be my guest and lecture us.
<Rebel_Virginia> Folks can do much what they want to us and get away with us with no problem, and they know it.
<Rebel_Virginia> And that's exactly what you're doing here.
<Epiphanus> Ehh, you are wrong. But I doubt we can convince you of that.
<Rebel_Virginia> Someone conned you, it happens all the time.
<Rebel_Virginia> But most people just let it be.
<Rebel_Virginia> They move on. I know I would. I ain't a petty man.
<Rebel_Virginia> But you saw he was flying the NSO AA.
<Rebel_Virginia> You saw a chance to get some money.
<Yevgeni> I would have pursued a similar approach with any other AA, I assure you as much.
<Rebel_Virginia> You had some grounds for it. Some shaky grounds, yes, but grounds nonetheless.
<Epiphanus> yes this is a conspiracy theory to swindle NSO out of 12 million and 250 tech
<Rebel_Virginia> Yev, I doubt that.
<Epiphanus> :rollseyes:
<Rebel_Virginia> I thought you wanted 15 million?
<Epiphanus> however much yev said
<Rebel_Virginia> But as I was saying, you knew you could get away with it.
<Yevgeni> RV, contrary to some Siths, I am true to my word and do not lie.
<Rebel_Virginia> Epiphanus: No, not a conspiracy.
<Rebel_Virginia> Just a power trip, and nothing more.
<Rebel_Virginia> And I realize who has the upper hand here.
<Rebel_Virginia> I may not like it, but I don't think 15 mil and 250 tech is worth dying over.
<Rebel_Virginia> But that don't mean I won't call this as it is.
<Rebel_Virginia> You can deny it all you want, but it don't change the fact.
<Epiphanus> You call it whatever you want, we aren't doing anything we wouldn't do with anyone else.
<Yevgeni> Now, can we reply?
<Rebel_Virginia> Go right ahead.
<Rebel_Virginia> And Epiphanus, I'd like to see you pull this on RoK or Fark or someone.
<Rebel_Virginia> I doubt you would.
<Yevgeni> We expected you to realize who has the upper hand here. Actually, we expected your government members to realize that as it's quite !@#$@#$ obvious.
<Rebel_Virginia> Because you know, you ain't stupid.
<Rebel_Virginia> You know they wouldn't play for this !@#$.
<Yevgeni> However, having the upper hand and using it are two different things and we aren't using it.
<Epiphanus> RoK or Fark wouldn't give us the runaround
<Epiphanus> they would own up to it from the start
<Epiphanus> even their newer gov members
<Rebel_Virginia> But I doubt they'd give you the money either.
<Epiphanus> I don't.
<Yevgeni> RoK and Fark, I believe, wouldn't have lied to us about the status of their member.
<Rebel_Virginia> The NSO did not lie.
<Epiphanus> No?
<Rebel_Virginia> There was some legitimate confusion as to the status of our member.
<Yevgeni> You're speaking of a masked ghost, your colleagues were speaking of two different people.
<Epiphanus> Your two boys flip flopped on whether the guy was a member so many times earlier I lost count
<Rebel_Virginia> A masked ghost is by no means a technical term.
<Yevgeni> And Lintwad actually told us the guy was a legitimate member.
<Rebel_Virginia> Just a description.
<Rebel_Virginia> He was a member, but a !@#$%* one.
<Epiphanus> Ehh I'm not wasting another hour of my evening arguing the finer details of this.
<Rebel_Virginia> I had never even heard of him before tonight.
<Epiphanus> It is what it is. A solution has been reached.
<Rebel_Virginia> Epiphanus: I don't focus on details. I could care less.
<Rebel_Virginia> You're the one bringing them up.
<Yevgeni> Had we wanted to push the upper hand, tbh, we would have asked for much more than 15m-250t.
<Rebel_Virginia> And had you done that we'd have told you to go $%&@ yourselves.
<Yevgeni> Had we wanted to force you to war, we would have asked for an unreasonable ammount, knowing you'd refuse it abruptly, esp. given your past.
<Yevgeni> As I just said, yes.
<Rebel_Virginia> In fact, I'd have done that tonight had he not actually been a member.
<Rebel_Virginia> I was disappointed to in fact learn that he was.
<Yevgeni> Well, your colleagues were saying the guy wasn't a member.
<Epiphanus> If he hadn't been a member we wouldn't have had this issue.
<Yevgeni> We were the ones saying the guy was a member.
<Epiphanus> If your guys knew how to demask someone it wouldn't have been the issue either.
<Rebel_Virginia> My colleagues were wrong. I'm sure you can forgive someone for being mistaken.
<Yevgeni> Well, two of your higher level govt didn't know one guy was a member?
<Yevgeni> I'm a bit miffled.
<Rebel_Virginia> Can you name every member of MK off the top of your head?
<Yevgeni> (I'm not sure miffled is the proper word but, meh, french)
<Yevgeni> No but if I'm pointed to their nation's link and someone ask me to confirm in official capacity that he's a member
<Epiphanus> RV, I can assure you that every member of MK is masked on our forums, and we don't have ghosts masked as members.
<Yevgeni> you can be damn sure that I'll double check
<Epiphanus> That, I can be quite certain of.
<Rebel_Virginia> Well, bully for you then.
<Yevgeni> Your colleagues double checked, argued about masks, said it was another Lord Revan, etc.
<Rebel_Virginia> I'll have a talk with them about that.
<Epiphanus> anything else tonight?
<Rebel_Virginia> But we could bicker all night, but I am the bigger man here. I don't want there to be a fight.
<Yevgeni> We didn't want, either.
<Rebel_Virginia> So, I'll just say, a good night to you fellows.
<Rebel_Virginia> You'll get your money.
<Epiphanus> Good night RV
<Yevgeni> I'll be expecting your people to contact me.
<Rebel_Virginia> Good night gentlemen.
<Yevgeni> Regarding the targets.
<Yevgeni> Good night.
<Rebel_Virginia> Give me the targets right now.
<Yevgeni> Fine.
<Rebel_Virginia> It's the members of the trade circle we're paying, right?
<Yevgeni> Yes, except for one (who's a bank)
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=267668
<Rebel_Virginia> Well, fine me a replacement for that one bank then.
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=262199
<Yevgeni> I will, no worry there.
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=106892
<Yevgeni> err, remove the 2nd one, that's the bank.
<Yevgeni> Apologies there.
<Rebel_Virginia> Alright then, I can do that.
<Yevgeni> I'll start up again:
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=267668
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... n_ID=30462
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=106892
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... _ID=232967
<Yevgeni> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_dril ... n_ID=10294
<Yevgeni> There. Your five targets. 3m-50t each.
<Rebel_Virginia> Have a nice night.
<Yevgeni> You too
<Epiphanus> Good night
<--| Epiphanus has left #talktome[/quote]

As you can see, I did confront them near the end. Wasn't too terribly polite of me, and wasn't very much necessary, but again, that's just me being me, and I can't help but be me. But I'd say I'm more or less on the mark the whole time, whether they want to admit it or not (they don't), but that's the breaks.

Now I don't expect this to get us out of paying the money, since we agreed to already, and a scout's word is a scout's word and a scout's word is always good. But I figured they done did this in private channels because they didn't want to see some rubbish extortion like this come to the public eye, so that's exactly what I'm doing. Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'm doing.

So, MK, enjoy. But I'm a fan of transparency, and when the world needs to know the world needs to know. I'm sure this isn't the only extortion on shaky grounds, and I doubt it'll be the last. Let's hope and pray to the Lord that more incidents like this can come to light.

I'd love to stick around for more folks, but I'd terribly like to sleep right now. I promise I'll be back later. Until then though, have fun![/color]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Sal Paradise]

I can see paying for the $3 million that guy stole for the harbour, but paying all members of the circle for a lost trade? That's !@#$%^&*.


And Bob's a bank?

[Little Fame Monster]

I saw what you did there with the title.

As for this... interesting issue. I can see both sides, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it extortion, Rebel Virginia.

MK was under the mistaken belief that the guy was a member of NSO because of the whole business with NSO trying to figure out whether or not the guy was a member. So they feel that NSO should take responsibility for the guy wearing the AA. NSO doesn't want to be pay because the guy's a ghost.

Edit: Re-read. And realized it was $3 mil and 50 for each. I take back that statement.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Sentinal

[thedestro]

Much less than "15m and 250t" is worth dying over.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289206287' post='2505930']
I can see paying for the $3 million that guy stole for the harbour, but paying all members of the circle for a lost trade? That's !@#$%^&*.


And Bob's a bank?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]MK gets what MK wants. Doesn't matter if they're entitled to it or not. But I figured in the long run 250 tech and 15 mil would be nothing compared to the couple hundred million we'd be forced to pay MK and GOONS, and the tech their buddies in Umbrella would be demanding. Though I must admit I am relieved to see that MK has remembered they have power. For awhile I had feared they'd forgotten they were on top.[/color]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Rafael Nadal]

Finally we start trying to stir things up around here.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sentinal' timestamp='1289206611' post='2505932']
I saw what you did there with the title.

As for this... interesting issue. I can see both sides, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it extortion, Rebel Virginia.

MK was under the mistaken belief that the guy was a member of NSO because of the whole business with NSO trying to figure out whether or not the guy was a member. So they feel that NSO should take responsibility for the guy wearing the AA. NSO doesn't want to be pay because the guy's a ghost.

Edit: Re-read. And realized it was $3 mil and 50 for each. I take back that statement.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Extortion is extortion regardless of the amount. It is pretty darn clear that we're either paying or dying (we're paying, for the record). Money under threat or implication of violence is the very definition of extortion, and implied here it was. Granted it was not as great an amount as demanded by Valhalla and other alliances back when they were running the show, but this is the exact method they used, and for an even more ridiculous reason I'd daresay.

Can you name me one other alliance that believes it is entitled to compensation for a lost trade?[/color]

[quote name='Rafael Nadal' timestamp='1289207087' post='2505937']
Finally we start trying to stir things up around here.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]OOC: And about time if you ask me. Please, do keep it up. I do appreciate it to be honest.[/color]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Kalasin]

Everyone's going to paint everyone as ~*the bad guy*~ soon. Seems RV's got in early.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289207877' post='2505942']
Everyone's going to paint everyone as ~*the bad guy*~ soon. Seems RV's got in early.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Only when someone actually does something bad, or at the very least disagreeable.[/color]

[Little Fame Monster]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289207219' post='2505938']
[color="#0000FF"]Extortion is extortion regardless of the amount. It is pretty darn clear that we're either paying or dying (we're paying, for the record). Money under threat or implication of violence is the very definition of extortion, and implied here is was. Granted it was not as great an amount as demanded by Valhalla and other alliances back when they were running the show, but this is the exact method they used, and for an even more ridiculous reason I'd daresay.

Can you name me one other alliance that believes it is entitled to compensation for a lost trade?[/color]


[color="#0000FF"]OOC: And about time if you ask me. Please, do keep it up. I do appreciate it to be honest.[/color]
[/quote]

Fair enough. $12 million and 200 tech is pretty ridiculous in compensation for the $3 million that was sent to him and for the ghost dropping his trade.

But MK will be MK as they say. They can strut their stuff but they'll eventually get what's coming to them. Karma, right?

Edited November 8, 2010 by Sentinal

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289207946' post='2505943']
[color="#0000FF"]Only when someone actually does something bad, or at the very least disagreeable.[/color]
[/quote]

Or something you can use as propaganda to make people look bad~

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289208102' post='2505945']
Or something you can use as propaganda to make people look bad~
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If people don't wish to read my commentary they just ignore the opening and closing paragraphs. Everything else there is left out in the open for them to come to their own conclusions, both about the demands and the method of demanding. If I were in the business of propaganda I'd have published this using Sardonic's method. I did not.[/color]

[Little Fame Monster]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289208102' post='2505945']
Or something you can use as propaganda to make people look bad~
[/quote]

I'd usually agree with you here, but I'd be pretty ticked if I had to pay $15 mil and 250 tech for a flipping ghost.

Edit: Wrong numbers. iFail

Edited November 8, 2010 by Sentinal

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sentinal' timestamp='1289209062' post='2505947']
I'd usually agree with you here, but I'd be pretty ticked if I had to pay $12 mil and 200 tech for a flipping ghost.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]$15 mil and 250 tech, actually. I'd reckon someone would be upset if they didn't get their cash. Anyway, yes, you're right, it was a ghost. He was masked as a member, although he should not have been. So while he was only technically a member due to an administrative oversight, which is not all that uncommon and usually corrected once discovered, which it was in this case. But since that is not what MK wanted to hear, it is simply no use trying to argue about it. They have might, whereas we do not, and the small amount they're oh so politely asking for is simply not worth throwing away an entire alliance for. So they'll get their money, sure thing. No doubt about it. I hope enjoy it.[/color]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Locke]

I don't have the time to go through the logs at the moment, so I'll withhold judgment there, but your title is faulty; I don't believe it ever left.

[Little Fame Monster]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1289210983' post='2505954']
I don't have the time to go through the logs at the moment, so I'll withhold judgment there, but your title is faulty; I don't believe it ever left.
[/quote]

tl;dr:

Some guy ghosting NSO screwed over MK members in a trade circle. MK gets mad, talks with NSO. There's a bit of a tussle about whether or not the guy's a ghost or not. He was improperly masked. MK talks to RV and demands $15 million and 250 tech for the loss of a trade and compensation for each of the members in the TC. RV agrees to pay it, but also tells them they suck... in a lengthier and more eloquent fashion obviously.

[abdur]

@RV: It was never gone.

Edit: [OOC]Finally someone stirs things up.[/ooc]

Edited November 8, 2010 by abdur

[Haflinger]

15M and 250 tech in reps for a 3M aid thief who NSO isn't protecting?

Oh man.

[Arrnea]

Not at all surprising, really. Power corrupts, after all.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1289212684' post='2505961']
Not at all surprising, really. Power corrupts, after all.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You know, I was saying that things like this would happen as early back as Karma. Guess I'm not so crazy after all, but I am right, once again.[/color]

[Cobalt]

<Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, he was a member. He shouldn't have been, but due to oversights he was never demasked or formally removed.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck...

edit:

<Rebel_Virginia> Like I said, this is more or less a masked ghost.

el oh el.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Tungsten

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1289214429' post='2505976']
<Rebel_Virginia> Yeah, he was a member. He shouldn't have been, but due to oversights he was never demasked or formally removed.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck...

edit:

<Rebel_Virginia> Like I said, this is more or less a masked ghost.

el oh el.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'd expect as much from you. You support your buddies and power partners. All MK proved was that our administrators are not anally retentive, and that on occasion one or two ghosts will not be unmasked simply because they slip through the cracks and we forget they exist. That is what happened here. An administrative oversight. So while he may have technically been a member, when you stop and actually think, he wasn't. But it's still technically true, and that's good enough for MK to make a quick buck or two and justify it enough for cronies like you (not that they'd need to, but its good for image).

You see, I bat around nonsense like this, when fellows like you seem to just want to throw more of it around. So you can keep it up if you'd like, but I'm going to go straight for the truth every single time.[/color]

[Cobalt]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289215193' post='2505979']
[color="#0000FF"]I'd expect as much from you. You support your buddies and power partners. All MK proved was that our administrators are not anally retentive, and that on occasion one or two [b][u]ghosts will not be unmasked[/u][/b] simply because they slip through the cracks and we forget they exist. That is what happened here. An administrative oversight. [u][b]So while he may have technically been a member[/b][/u], when you stop and actually think, he wasn't. [u][b]But it's still technically true[/b][/u], and that's good enough for MK to make a quick buck or two and justify it enough for cronies like you (not that they'd need to, but its good for image).

You see, I bat around nonsense like this, when fellows like you seem to just want to throw more of it around. So you can keep it up if you'd like, but I'm going to go straight for the truth every single time.[/color]
[/quote]


Let me get this straight... you're fighting against something you admit was true, in the name of truth? Sounds rational.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1289215490' post='2505981']
Let me get this straight... you're fighting against something you admit was true, in the name of truth? Sounds rational.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Just because something is technically true does not make it true. I'm sure even a genius such as yourself could figure that one out. For example, murderers in my country get off all the time due to technicalities, but that doesn't make them innocent does it? Technically innocent, but not innocent. It's the same deal here. If you're relying on minor details and technicalities to get what you want, you probably ain't got such great ground to stand on.[/color]

[Hiro Nakara]

Actually it reads better when you bold the funny part. [b]So while he may have technically been a member, when you stop and actually think, he wasn't. But it's still technically true[/b]

Good show RV, You have shown MK to be the Evil people you already knew them to be.