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The Ninjas Announcement: Lowering of Swords


Ejayrazz

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[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1287603766' post='2488893']
Hey, we're consistently persecuted for our AA, no matter which one of us posts. Welcome to reality.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No. People criticize you for your current actions. Not anything done in the past by the former GOONS. That is the reality, not the misrepresentation that you are trying to present.[/color]

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[quote name='Sceptor o Sordidness' timestamp='1287554314' post='2488525']
It depends on a lot of factors. While I'd like to say that damage done would be a good starting point, it has the potential for being completely unrealistic. In most scenarios what I would consider to be appropriate would be [i]far[/i] less than the cost of rebuilding. But I wouldn't consider these sort of scenarios appropriate for white peace. That's for a different sort of conflict altogether.
[/quote]
I know it depends on factors, but I'm wondering what you think the appropriate reps in this circumstance would be.

[quote name='StupidLikeAFox' timestamp='1287567444' post='2488609']
Actually take risks? Dude, there's no risk whatsoever if everyone white peaces everything jolly good go-around chaps what what I say, because there are no consequences for your actions. Which part of 'you don't get to swing for us and just walk away because you think it's right' are you missing? If you fight us for that principle and lose, [i]we don't have to kowtow to that principle[/i]. You don't just get to shout it louder until people listen and expect the world to magically think like you; you have to fight us, win, and enforce what you believe. Except you don't want there to be any consequences to war, you don't actually want it to mean anything, and I'm sure you'd think terms of "you are no longer allowed to say thing x" are even harsher than $300mil, so... what is it you want here? A world in which everyone just slapfights for no stakes at all? Do you think that's fun?
[/quote]
I understand your point, but I don't think it's very compelling. War itself can be quite damaging, even if it takes multiple wars to knock a nation down a few % in the rankings (Matt Miller). The very fact that you're fighting means that war isn't a riskless activity.

And how far do we extend to make losing a war a dangerous activity? There are all sorts of terms we can dream up that are quite beyond this one.


[quote name='Lord Strider' timestamp='1287595008' post='2488815']
A smart person would have talked some smack
[/quote]
Smart people talk smack? I thought they made valid points or something like that :unsure:

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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287606128' post='2488920']
[color="#0000FF"]No. People criticize you for your current actions. Not anything done in the past by the former GOONS. [/color]
[/quote]

Sorry, but this is false in the sense that the attention garnered by the current GOONS for doing the same things that many other alliances do is primarily based on the reputation of a different alliance that used the same acronym in a bygone era. GOONS could give up tech raiding and your ilk would still find something to pick on.

Also, I'd like to add that I'm extremely pleased both GOONS and The Ninjas could come to an agreement that was acceptable to both sides.

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[quote name='Lord GVChamp' timestamp='1287606320' post='2488923']
Smart people talk smack? I thought they made valid points or something like that :unsure:
[/quote]
Valid points by smart people here? Are you new or something? It works like this:

The more smack you speak + the more "no u" you throw into your post * The irrelevant history in the topic / (Facts - Smileys) = you're intelligence


That's how it works.

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[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1287607920' post='2488939']
Sorry, but this is false in the sense that the attention garnered by the current GOONS for doing the same things that many other alliances do is primarily based on the reputation of a different alliance that used the same acronym in a bygone era. GOONS could give up tech raiding and your ilk would still find something to pick on.

Also, I'd like to add that I'm extremely pleased both GOONS and The Ninjas could come to an agreement that was acceptable to both sides.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'm critical of raiding in general, and of any alliance that does the things GOONS do. As are many others. GOONS garners more attention on these matters simply because they are more blatant and vocal about it than most people. If you take a look before BiPolar you won't see much of a fuss about GOONS. It is only after that war that they started becoming as bold as they are, or until when they started becoming more vocal in regards to their practice. However, it is not like they've been so heavily criticized since their beginning simply because of their name. For some people, perhaps, but in most part it is a response to their recent trends.

Also, if GOONS abandoned their tech raiding, or at least instituted a 'PM for peace policy' in regards to their tech raid victims, I'd not have many qualms with them. If they stopped asking for heavy reps (granted this case is not that extreme considering the size of the alliance and the nations in questions, but there are other cases) I'd have no problems with them at all.

All I am saying is that GOONS is by no means persecuted or prejudiced against. Those are myths created by GOONS to garner sympathy towards GOONS, and if you so easily believe them then you aren't much of a thinking man are you?

And once again, well done on your good fight, Ninjas. May you rebuild swiftly. Good luck.[/color]

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[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1287603067' post='2488888']How do you figure? Unless the aggressive group is completely inept and none of them have nukes, how is the battle supposed to result in such extreme one-sidedness, to the point of being worthy of punishment in itself?[/quote]
I don't quite understand where you don't get me. You have to compute context here, meaning sizes of the sides. One side here lost most of its pre war strength, while other didn't. I call that a consequence and a punishment. If its enough or not to please the appetites of the defending party, it is its call as always. But it isnt like with no reps in this type of war it would be like the aggro party just walked away with no consequence for it at all.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287604711' post='2488904']With all due respect, it's of little consequence to myself or to GOONS if you see it from our perspective. I merely presented our justification. Take it as you wish.[/quote]
Of course, no where did I imply anything other.
[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287604711' post='2488904']Now that said, you do realize that the deterrent isn't intended for The Ninjas, but for other alliances, right? Hence it's irrelevant whether or not The Ninjas deem them to be light. Regardless, a deterrent, the strength of which is admittedly debatable, is better than none.[/quote]
I believe it goes without much saying that I understand that, as it goes for the upper quoted part hence I dont quite get why you included that in your post, but ok,... it is a message send to others, but its a meek one if its designed for this purpose. Yes, while that is debatable, opinion of the Ninjas isn't irrelevant but indicative of possible success of this designed effect. And of what I am saying and of my earlier confusion as to the purpose you wanted to achieve with the reps. If they read it as light, others as well might. And also, it is always a question if this type of deterrent is needed, or not.

Anyway, got my answer. Thanks for the replies.

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[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1287608428' post='2488946']
I believe it goes without much saying that I understand that, as it goes for the upper quoted part hence I dont quite get why you included that in your post, but ok,... it is a message send to others, but its a meek one if its designed for this purpose. Yes, while that is debatable, opinion of the Ninjas isn't irrelevant but indicative of possible success of this designed effect. And of what I am saying and of my earlier confusion as to the purpose you wanted to achieve with the reps. If they read it as light, others as well might. And also, it is always a question if this type of deterrent is needed, or not.

Anyway, got my answer. Thanks for the replies.
[/quote]

Ultimately, if we were aiming for an overwhelming deterrent (and if we were off our rockers), we would have sought billions in reparations, demilitarization, etc. However, we were ok with a comparative deterrent (comparative in relation to white peace) and in general a reasonable, fair approach to peace.

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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287606128' post='2488920']
[color="#0000FF"]No. People criticize you for your current actions. Not anything done in the past by the former GOONS. That is the reality, not the misrepresentation that you are trying to present.[/color]
[/quote]
Many times have I seen you and others criticize my alliance for being like the former GOONS, and now apparently you don't? Can't have it both ways, RV. :(

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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287608317' post='2488943']All I am saying is that GOONS is by no means persecuted or prejudiced against. Those are myths created by GOONS to garner sympathy towards GOONS, and if you so easily believe them then you aren't much of a thinking man are you?[/color][/quote]

Your personal attack on me aside...

I'd go the other way and say that GOONS have been by far the most persecuted alliance around here for several months now. In fact the non-stop banter against them has been counterproductive for your side in that those on the fence have had enough time to see that it is all overblown hype with no substance. GOONS have been the victims of highly publicized rogue attacks, wars, and coordinated propaganda in an attempt to slander them. Shoot, we've been presented with "numbers" to show how bad they are with their raids only to have it come out later that not all of the information was correct. How about the people who have fought GOONS and have come out and said that they aren't as bad as advertised only to have their threads hijacked by the detractors who are uninvolved? And then we've seen a coalition that included several "moralists" who thought if they could come up with a CB, valid or not, it would be a good enough reason to attack GOONS. Honestly, I'm surprised some of you didn't get rolled for that. But hey, this is the post-Karma world we live in and those kinds of things don't happen anymore.

So GOONS are not persecuted? Pshhh.

All you guys have shown is that the louder you scream, the more transparent you become. Maybe now is the time to put a clamp on it and make us wonder what you're up to instead of telegraphing it like mad radicals with a bullhorns.

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[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1287617346' post='2489071']
Your personal attack on me aside...

I'd go the other way and say that GOONS have been by far the most persecuted alliance around here for several months now. In fact the non-stop banter against them has been counterproductive for your side in that those on the fence have had enough time to see that it is all overblown hype with no substance. GOONS have been the victims of highly publicized rogue attacks, wars, and coordinated propaganda in an attempt to slander them. Shoot, we've been presented with "numbers" to show how bad they are with their raids only to have it come out later that not all of the information was correct. How about the people who have fought GOONS and have come out and said that they aren't as bad as advertised only to have their threads hijacked by the detractors who are uninvolved? And then we've seen a coalition that included several "moralists" who thought if they could come up with a CB, valid or not, it would be a good enough reason to attack GOONS. Honestly, I'm surprised some of you didn't get rolled for that. But hey, this is the post-Karma world we live in and those kinds of things don't happen anymore.

So GOONS are not persecuted? Pshhh.

All you guys have shown is that the louder you scream, the more transparent you become. Maybe now is the time to put a clamp on it and make us wonder what you're up to instead of telegraphing it like mad radicals with a bullhorns.
[/quote]

Ok maybe both sides need to get off their damn soap box. GOONS are far from inocent in anything they have done. THey have been loud mouthed and provoking. They called Ejay out and he responded. Umbrella wants GOONs for their tech farm you just want to be in a Bloc of some power. You are no better than RV or Schatt at trying to spin this !@#$ to your favor. If you want to spin something why dont you spear head it instead of using goons or ninjas to further your propoganda.

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[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287618003' post='2489082']
Ok maybe both sides need to get off their damn soap box. GOONS are far from inocent in anything they have done. THey have been loud mouthed and provoking. They called Ejay out and he responded. Umbrella wants GOONs for their tech farm you just want to be in a Bloc of some power. You are no better than RV or Schatt at trying to spin this !@#$ to your favor. If you want to spin something why dont you spear head it instead of using goons or ninjas to further your propoganda.
[/quote]
Maybe you should do something about it. :smug:

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[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1287615985' post='2489057']
Many times have I seen you and others criticize my alliance for being like the former GOONS, and now apparently you don't? Can't have it both ways, RV. :(
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You wouldn't be compared to the former GOONS if you didn't act in ways reminiscent of them.

And Mr. Wallace, there is no coordinated propaganda campaign against GOONS. Simply having a lot of critics does not mean people are actively working together to "smear" GOONS. It simply means you've rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

And Mr. Bud, I have no agenda. I have no desire to ever be in a position of power. My objections to GOONS and others like them exist merely because I have a strong distaste for bullies and thugs.

As for Ninjas, had GOONS not gone out of their way to harass them and provoke them, they'd never have been attacked. GOONS isn't completely innocent here. Don't forget that. I know I won't.[/color]

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If he does anything, I'd hope it'd be to realize that perhaps GOONS are actually good allies to have. If you don't think the campaign(not necessarily centralized, but we saw some of the clusters emerge) to make GOONS into some sort of boogeyman is exaggerated and overblown, I don't know what to tell you.(I think Gopherbashi's sig puts it well) I mean, it can't be denied that GOONS get judged more harshly than anyone else right now because they're GOONS. People are ready to assume the worst and lose their better judgement in the process and it's sad to see.

Edited by Antoine Roquentin
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[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1287619504' post='2489100']
[color="#0000FF"]You wouldn't be compared to the former GOONS if you didn't act in ways reminiscent of them.
[/color]
[/quote]
So you admit to being a liar? Good to know, RV... good to know.

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[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1287570846' post='2488629']
You don't get how this works, GOONS must have forced them to say terms were light under threat of disbandment.
[/quote]
Pardon my momentary lapse in logic; I stand corrected.
:v:

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[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287618003' post='2489082']
Ok maybe both sides need to get off their damn soap box. GOONS are far from inocent in anything they have done. THey have been loud mouthed and provoking.
[/quote]
Hardly traits exclusive to GOONS.
[quote]
They called Ejay out and he responded.
[/quote]
It's still not a commonly accepted CB, if we tried to attack somebody on the grounds we didn't like them, we'd be crucified for it, and you know it.
[quote]
You are no better than RV or Schatt at trying to spin this !@#$ to your favor.
[/quote]
The difference being we are in the right, Schatt is a liar, and RV is just overreacting.

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[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1287619962' post='2489106']
Hardly traits exclusive to GOONS.

It's still not a commonly accepted CB, if we tried to attack somebody on the grounds we didn't like them, we'd be crucified for it, and you know it.

The difference being we are in the right, Schatt is a liar, and RV is just overreacting.
[/quote]

Why dont you go back through out this thread and re read my posts. I basically said what you did in your first sentance. [quote]If you attack with out a CB and there are no reprecusions then we as a society basically are telling the GOONS its ok to go out and pull their BS and their would be no consequences. Lets not be hypocrites here. Ninjas felt this was a decent deal, GOONS has done what it needed to in order to help their smaller nations seems like a relatively equal deal to me. Perhaps if people would stop nit picking and trying to live off of others blood we could get back to ploting our next big global shake down or at the minimum perhaps a good precedence was set that we can have minor conflicts with out going full scale global. Either way im going to go throw up now for even feeling the need to express this view.

[/quote]
Pay attention to the content and do follow the complete conversation ol boy. You are far from in the right and i called both sides loud mouths and if you look closely i told the guy from VE to stop trying to use yours and Ninjas blood to try and spin stupid !@#$ as well as RV and Schatt. You are far from innocent Sardonic as is goons youd try to kill Valhalla if you could even fabricate something. Oh wait you started that once didnt you. All that aside i think ive been pretty $%&@en objective through out this thread so if you want to throw angst at someone pick another $%&@en target instead of one that has pretty much defended you in this damn thread.

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[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287620922' post='2489116']
blah blah blah... You are far from innocent Sardonic as is goons youd try to kill Valhalla if you could even fabricate something. Oh wait you started that once didnt you.
[/quote]
Hardly, we, unlike those in the WCE, do not believe in faking CBs. You also think we harbor a special hate for Valhalla, we don't, just some of your lesser posters.
[quote]
All that aside i think ive been pretty $%&@en objective through out this thread so if you want to throw angst at someone pick another $%&@en target instead of one that has pretty much defended you in this damn thread.
[/quote]
Glad you can recognize that we are in the right here, so thanks you for that. I didn't mean to offend, I was merely correcting you on certain misconceptions.

Edited by Sardonic
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[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287620922' post='2489116']
Pay attention to the content and do follow the complete conversation ol boy. You are far from in the right and i called both sides loud mouths and if you look closely i told the guy from VE to stop trying to use yours and Ninjas blood to try and spin stupid !@#$ as well as RV and Schatt. You are far from innocent Sardonic as is goons youd try to kill Valhalla if you could even fabricate something. Oh wait you started that once didnt you. All that aside i think ive been pretty $%&@en objective through out this thread so if you want to throw angst at someone pick another $%&@en target instead of one that has pretty much defended you in this damn thread.
[/quote]
I'd hardly say you've been objective at all, especially since you have to resort to name calling and cursing.

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[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1287619543' post='2489101']
I mean, it can't be denied that GOONS get judged more harshly than anyone else right now because they're GOONS. People are ready to assume the worst and lose their better judgement in the process and it's sad to see.
[/quote]

GOONS gets judge more harshly than anyone else right now because they make far more mistakes than anyone else right now. They have some [i]terrible[/i] raiders in that AA. Terrible. GOONS are seemingly forever making good on a raid on a member of one alliance or another.

And that brings us to the other side of the coin. They always make good on those bad raids and have always been - to my knowledge - easy to deal with in those matters.

Ultimately, I'm sure it's the attitude combine with all the mistakes that leads so many to believe the worst.

As for anyone 'doing something about it' I don't see it. GOONS surely is as well lead as any alliance. If someone did put a coalition together, GOONS wouldn't be dumb enough to hand them a CB anyway.

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[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1287623536' post='2489146']
GOONS gets judge more harshly than anyone else right now because they make far more mistakes than anyone else right now. They have some [i]terrible[/i] raiders in that AA. Terrible. GOONS are seemingly forever making good on a raid on a member of one alliance or another.

And that brings us to the other side of the coin. They always make good on those bad raids and have always been - to my knowledge - easy to deal with in those matters.

Ultimately, I'm sure it's the attitude combine with all the mistakes that leads so many to believe the worst.

As for anyone 'doing something about it' I don't see it. GOONS surely is as well lead as any alliance. If someone did put a coalition together, GOONS wouldn't be dumb enough to hand them a CB anyway.
[/quote]
We've made far more mistakes than anyone else right now? Outside of raiding, which you make a nebulous claim about how we're "terrible" at it, you give no other example of a mistake we made.

As for "doing something about it", the Ninjas did just that, as did FnKA, and subsequently are having to deal with the consequences of "doing something about it".

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