The Ninjas Announcement: Lowering of Swords

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1287590131' post='2488777']
I am not putting in question fairness or not, of the reps amount. I am just somewhat confused at their intended purpose.

Reps are just punitive measures, you are not getting back via them what you lost in the conflict.


So, when they are applied they are so the opponent be kept down more in relation to you, so to further minimize the threat he posses to you.
But, I don't believe this really applies here. I am sure that GOONS know how they cant get back what they lost in this skirmish, only a minor fraction, and also I am sure they don't feel threaten by the Ninjas to feel the need to keep them down as much as possible-- to inflict really punitive terms. Also I doubt they really hate them enough for that. And, I feel by their decisive victory on the battle field, they did hurt, damaged Ninjas enough for their act of aggression on them.

I also feel that they did this to end a fight that only hurt them on the PR field, somewhat. So to minimize the damage done there. So, why even ask for any reps, considering this all, it just opens another can of worms,....

This lesson is not only one I feel GOONS here failed, but historically my alliance too (before somebody yells NPO evilz huuurrr durrrr). I think its time to learn this lesson, of when asking for any reps just doesn't accomplish anything, and finally end the practice.
[/quote]
Nicely put but let me throw a question to you. Considering GOONS is a bottom heavy alliance,300 million would allow substantial growth to those smaller nations that was stunted due to this war wouldnt it? If it was an AA like Umbrella or MK whom are top heavy I would agree with your statement.

Im sick to my stomach here defending GOONS but if we are going to persicute them then lets do it right. 300 mill is a drop in the bucket to the bigger nations but to those smaller ones it will be a hay day. 300 mill really isnt cripling to Ninjas either considering its two rounds of 3 mill basically x 6 slots per nation or if they really want to pay it off quickly each nation can send out 50 tech per slot there by increasing the pay out to 27 million per nation in one round which would allow them to pay it all off in a single round of reps. Does this really cripple Ninjas in todays economy. I really dont think so. Ninjas attacked GOONS and stunted there growth while the reps themselves are really punitive i can see why it would be considered a decent offer. If you attack with out a CB and there are no reprecusions then we as a society basically are telling the GOONS its ok to go out and pull their BS and their would be no consequences. Lets not be hypocrites here. Ninjas felt this was a decent deal, GOONS has done what it needed to in order to help their smaller nations seems like a relatively equal deal to me. Perhaps if people would stop nit picking and trying to live off of others blood we could get back to ploting our next big global shake down or at the minimum perhaps a good precedence was set that we can have minor conflicts with out going full scale global. Either way im going to go throw up now for even feeling the need to express this view.


****apparently some one beat me to this while i was typing oh well*****

Edited October 20, 2010 by Buds The Man

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1287576669' post='2488668']
My complaints about FnKa are over them paying higher reps and only being allowed individual surrenders.
[/quote]
You really should stop complaining about things when you don't know the details.

FnKa turned down an alliance-wide surrender in favor of individual terms because it made more sense for their particular situation.

[SirWilliam]

Comrade mattski133 hit the nail on the head. To many alliances such an amount would be a drop in the bucket, but to GOONS, due to our nation spread (being such a bottom-heavy alliance), such an amount goes a lot further.

Additionally, if we're peacing out wars where the other combatant is the aggressor, and fighting for (debatably) objectionable reasons, walking our separate ways with nothing in the way of consequences isn't much of a deterrent for others to take similar actions.

[CRexx]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1287592453' post='2488794']
You really should stop complaining about things when you don't know the details.

FnKa turned down an alliance-wide surrender in favor of individual terms because it made more sense for their particular situation.
[/quote]
I would totally volunteer to do a mercy if it would knock down the alliance wide terms for The Ninjas. However we went with straight cash, so no worries.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Reps are just punitive measures, you are not getting back via them what you lost in the conflict. [/quote]
In simplistic terms, that's true, but reps also have two other purposes, which have been alluded to in posts above me. The first is deterrence (which is why I object much more to reps in an aggressive situation): if GOONS let alliances attack them and then release them as soon as they ask with no terms, it's like saying 'Sure, go ahead and attack us, it will cost you nothing'. And the second is to [i]compensate[/i] for the damages done to GOONS' larger nations by sending some aid to the younger nations – so no, the reps can't replace the actual infra that was destroyed, but in an alliance with a lower tier it [i]can[/i] compensate the alliance as a whole for the damage done.

Edit: Buds, I rarely agree with Valhalla members so just an acknowledgement of your great post, and thanks for looking across the political lines to take an objective view of this one.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Bob Janova

[Lord Strider]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287585337' post='2488736']
WOW arent you just full of !@#$. They did what many would dream of doing but would not. Im pretty sure GOONS walked away limping from this. They neither looked weak nor pathetic they took a stand and while they may have lost they did so with dignity. I look forward to when your lying on your back with a boot on your throat again.
[/quote]

Oh sure; I dream all the time about running into a biker bar and punching one of them in the face, then getting kicked around for a few hours afterward. I don't think GOONS had an real damage from that fight, as you stated. Dignity you say? It looked more like retard rage to me. A smart person would have talked some smack, then come back after making some good plans and put a stop to it. Blinding running into a fight because you want to "do something about it," only makes you look like a stupid fool.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Lord Strider' timestamp='1287595008' post='2488815']
Oh sure; I dream all the time about running into a biker bar and punching one of them in the face, then getting kicked around for a few hours afterward. I don't think GOONS had an real damage from that fight, as you stated. Dignity you say? It looked more like retard rage to me. A smart person would have talked some smack, then come back after making some good plans and put a stop to it. Blinding running into a fight because you want to "do something about it," only makes you look like a stupid fool.
[/quote]
Spoken like a true elitest one who apparently likes to sit on top of the world and look down their nose at people. You never know that one little stand may have done more than any amount of smack talking. Only the future will tell.

Good to see some old style posting comming from MK members who does it remind me of, im trying to think, oh well it will come to me in time im sure.

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1287559991' post='2488580']
Obligatory victory for GOONS, also OmasNams, it was a pleasure fighting you and we should do it again at some point :v
[/quote]

The pleasure was mine as well . Hopefully next time I won'[t have to turtle and we can both get some decent casualties

[Gobb]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1287576669' post='2488668']
My complaints about FnKa are over them paying higher reps and only being allowed individual surrenders. Here, Ninjas are allowed alliance surrender terms, as is proper to end an alliance war
[/quote]
That might just be because FnKa decided to disband.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1287592453' post='2488794']
You really should stop complaining about things when you don't know the details.

FnKa turned down an alliance-wide surrender in favor of individual terms because it made more sense for their particular situation.
[/quote]
Well, if true that merely transfers my dislike of the terms from GOONS to FnKa, whose government decided that they preferred to have their membership kept at war.

Yeah that's a really classy way to defend your members. Hopefully those people don't intend to ever enter an alliance government ever again, and pretend that they care about their membership.

[Lord Strider]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287595303' post='2488816']
Spoken like a true elitest one who apparently likes to sit on top of the world and look down their nose at people. You never know that one little stand may have done more than any amount of smack talking. Only the future will tell.

Good to see some old style posting comming from MK members who does it remind me of, im trying to think, oh well it will come to me in time im sure.
[/quote]

Don't hurt yourself to much trying to use your brain.

Anyways, congrats to Ninja on getting out of the war. Think before you make a pickett's charge next time.

[nippy]

[quote name='CRex of Gulo Gulo' timestamp='1287593049' post='2488801']
I would totally volunteer to do a mercy if it would knock down the alliance wide terms for The Ninjas. However we went with straight cash, so no worries.
[/quote]

Perhaps you could volunteer to do a mercy board term, just to see what it's like. I'm under the impression that our talented GOONS in charge of creating sig ribbons should create one to reward people for completing terms just for the sake of completing terms. Yeah, it's a small reward, but the real reward is participating in an activity that tickles the imagination and promotes comedy.

[potato]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287595303' post='2488816']
Good to see some old style posting comming from MK members who does it remind me of, im trying to think, oh well it will come to me in time im sure.
[/quote]

Valhalla? Wait... no. That can't be it: we're hiding behind no one.

[Mandolus]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1287599433' post='2488852']
Well, if true that merely transfers my dislike of the terms from GOONS to FnKa, whose government decided that they preferred to have their membership kept at war.

Yeah that's a really classy way to defend your members. Hopefully those people don't intend to ever enter an alliance government ever again, and pretend that they care about their membership.
[/quote]

It was all clearly stated in that thread you didn't bother to read before you started posting crap in it. Seriously man, this is pathetic. You just hop from GOONS thread to GOONS thread trying to push an anti-GOONS agenda without bothering to look at the facts.

[Branimir]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1287590887' post='2488779']I'd guess, and I say GUESS, cause I don't know the true intent, but this money sent to our smaller nations could be put to very good and productive use, as opposed to one of our larger nations who will be rebuilt fairly shortly on our own will. [/quote]
I suppose, yes. Am not much of a stat guy, didn't noticed your average nation strength there.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287592686' post='2488798']Additionally, if we're peacing out wars where the other combatant is the aggressor, and fighting for (debatably) objectionable reasons, walking our separate ways with nothing in the way of consequences isn't much of a deterrent for others to take similar actions.[/quote]
Ehm,...no, I dont see it like that in this case. Consequence is a decisive military victory for you on the field, meaning strong loses for the aggressive party. But additionally, by admittance of the aggro party here this are light terms. Not a very good deterrent at all, hence.

Hearing the response, I now better understand why reps were included. I suppose its a matter of weighting does this boost to some of your lower tier nations outweigh the can of worms asking for reps in this case causes, while you want to close one with peace in the first place.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Branimir

[nippy]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1287602566' post='2488880']
Ehm,...no, I dont see it like that in this case. Consequence is a decisive military victory for you on the field, meaning strong loses for the aggressive party.
[/quote]

How do you figure? Unless the aggressive group is completely inept and none of them have nukes, how is the battle supposed to result in such extreme one-sidedness, to the point of being worthy of punishment in itself?

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1287600173' post='2488859']
Valhalla? Wait... no. That can't be it: we're hiding behind no one.
[/quote]
Dont let 2+ year old BS get in the way of the way things are now Potato. Also please respond to the post not the AA for once or is that too much to ask. All i see in this post is Valhalla HUURRRRR try comming up with something original instead.

@Strider trust me it didnt take long to figure out same arrogance just a change in the AA tag is all.

[Tigerdonia Redux]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1287576669' post='2488668']
Yes, because Hal's posts in this thread mirror mine exactly.



My complaints about FnKa are over them paying higher reps and only being allowed individual surrenders. Here, Ninjas are allowed alliance surrender terms, as is proper to end an alliance war, and they pay 20M per nation, and won't be required to pay out any tech. That's better than the reps FnKa got, and they're much more capable of paying out as well.

And they're not being kept at war.
[/quote]

To be fair.. you'd complain either way.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1287599433' post='2488852']
Well, if true that merely transfers my dislike of the terms from GOONS to FnKa, whose government decided that they preferred to have their membership kept at war.

Yeah that's a really classy way to defend your members. Hopefully those people don't intend to ever enter an alliance government ever again, and pretend that they care about their membership.
[/quote]I don't think there's much concern here because those FnKa members are inactive and could not be contacted about/did not bother with negotiations for an alliance-wide peace.

Also this is NOT the FnKa thread.

[nippy]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287603143' post='2488889']
Dont let 2+ year old BS get in the way of the way things are now Potato. Also please respond to the post not the AA for once or is that too much to ask. All i see in this post is Valhalla HUURRRRR try comming up with something original instead.
[/quote]

Hey, we're consistently persecuted for our AA, no matter which one of us posts. Welcome to reality.

[potato]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1287603143' post='2488889']
Dont let 2+ year old BS get in the way of the way things are now Potato. Also please respond to the post not the AA for once or is that too much to ask. All i see in this post is Valhalla HUURRRRR try comming up with something original instead.
[/quote]

I responded in the same vein as you did to LordStrider. Take that as you will.

[Wargarden]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1287582535' post='2488706']
You take that back.
[/quote]

No way man.

Also, nipples.



GOONS

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1287602566' post='2488880']
Ehm,...no, I dont see it like that in this case. Consequence is a decisive military victory for you on the field, meaning strong loses for the aggressive party. But additionally, by admittance of the aggro party here this are light terms. Not a very good deterrent at all, hence.
[/quote]

With all due respect, it's of little consequence to myself or to GOONS if you see it from our perspective. I merely presented our justification. Take it as you wish.

Now that said, you do realize that the deterrent isn't intended for The Ninjas, but for other alliances, right? Hence it's irrelevant whether or not The Ninjas deem them to be light. Regardless, a deterrent, the strength of which is admittedly debatable, is better than none.

[nippy]

[quote name='Wargarden' timestamp='1287604694' post='2488903']
Also, nipples.


[/quote]

yourself, man.

=LOST=

[Cornelius]

I am truly glad to see peace prevail here for both sides.