Pandora's Box

[Prodigal Moon]

Arguments aside, it is a real deterrent to going rogue on them.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1286761678' post='2480844']
Arguments aside, it is a real deterrent to going rogue on them.
[/quote]
Get your alliance in on the fun and it won't be going rogue! I mean, you did tell the WCE to pull the trigger, and the WCE are made up of legit alliances. So I'm not even sure where this talk of going rogue came from.

Edited October 11, 2010 by General Scipio

[Prodigal Moon]

^ After Ninjas and FnKa kicked it off, I started a thread in our forums titled: "Wars on GOONS; Anyone up for a suicide run?" but it didn't go anywhere

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sooner' timestamp='1286750845' post='2480692']
Why so angry, RV? Upset that you didn't get leaked details about PB before MCXA and SuperCoolYellow?



RV: The only time you were ever credible was when you were in LOSS and VE and NPO took you out back to the woodshed and gave you the beating you deserved. You took your lumps and moved on, learned from your mistake and LOSS became all the better for it. Hell, VE even released LOSS from terms early and fought for LOSS not to get moved, etc. Or did you forget about that while rubbing your hands together like a jewel thief after a big score with your crew (Schattenman, Peggy, and the rest of the Camp Councilors)?


For you to talk about a lack of human decency, you really don't know VE nor GOONS. Stop pretending you know how our respective alliances work. You were never a member of either alliance. Your speculation is nothing but mindless dribble and drool. And don't talk like you never manufactured a CB against an alliance. Or did you forget about GW3? And lastly, who gave you the right to decide who gets rolled or not? Yeah, no one.



Oh what would you know, spy? Your alliance isn't relevant anymore, just like GGA wasn't relevant anymore after numerous defeats.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Actually, I was never in LoSS, and I knew about PB for a few days before Supercoolyellow leaked it to the public. So you're wrong on two counts there sparky. As for GWIII, I was only a low level bureaucrat in the NPO. If you're under any impression that I had decision making power, you're greatly mistaken. Keep on reaching for those straws though.[/color]

[Earogema]

[quote name='fant0m' timestamp='1286742107' post='2480599']
The only reason you didn't go with a manufactured CB was because none of you could think of an even half decent one. That and the fact ODN actually managed to sort out the whole mess by using a little common sense. I'm sure you might be able to find a CB in future though, who knows, maybe that micro bait alliance could work.

With the intelligence we've seen on show from those who oppose GOONS we'll all be waiting for your eventual master plan to crush us into dust with baited breath. Until that time I guess we'll have to amuse ourselves with your incompetence and dillusions that you are in fact the good guys.
[/quote]
That doesn't make any sense. A manufactured CB wouldn't be something we'd have to think of for a half decent one. It's not hard to use a newbie or a rogue, or a reroll to make an easy CB. The reason we didn't attack is because we realized that nobody would like it if we did in fact manufacture one. Manufacturing a CB and finding a good one are two completely different things.
[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286741922' post='2480595']
1. You didn't attack, you're right. Probably the only smart thing that came from that meeting of the mindless.
2. You didn't actually manufacture one, but you were trying as hard as you can to manufacture one. Doesn't paint you in any better of a light.
[/quote]
1. So the whole reason we met was to attack and we didn't. So if that was the only smart thing, I guess mission accomplished.
2. We were not trying [i]hard[/i] to manufacture one. We tried to get ONE UPN CB to work (which wasn't a manufacturing, since it would assume we did something to make that GOONS nation attack) and it fell through. There were like 2 other ideas and neither had any serious considering.
[quote name='leprecon' timestamp='1286741566' post='2480587']
And there is no war because your logs were leaked and everybody saw how willing your coalition was to attack without motive.
We have to take your word for this because who knows what would have happened had those logs not leaked.
And to be honest, taking your word for it would be pretty damn ridiculous right now after everybody found out how trustworthy you guys are.
[/quote]
The logs were leaked like 2 days or so after that meeting, which was ample time to move.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1286717987' post='2480366']
So, um, what was the point of that tirade, exactly?

1. When talking about an alliance, the terms "reduce to useless fragments", "injure beyond repair or renewal", "ruin", "render ineffective or useless", "invalidate", "defeat completely" and so on point towards forcing disbandment to me. To use one example, to render an alliance ineffective or useless would essentially mean to push it to the point where it could not protect its own members or live up to the aims in its charter. This would lead to disbandment, as we have seen in the past. If the aforementioned terms are not applicable to alliance disbandment, I would hate to see the words you would use to relate to disbandment!

2. What the hell are you even talking about here? Seriously, you're all over the place.

3. I'll be sure to rearrange my post according to your standards next time!
[/quote]

what tirade exactly? me pointing out where you are wrong? now lets go on to what tirade means- prolonged outburst of [b]bitter[/b] denunciation. well considering i was not bitter at all, nor do i truly care enough about you, MK, RV, or GOONS to warrant me being bitter about any of ya'll, pretty much shows you are trying to use flowery words in an attempt to defend yourself being found wrong. how about you actually learn what most of that stuff actually means instead of immediately going for the most negative connotation you can find.

reduce to useless fragments more than likely would mean to destroy enough infra and tech that the nations are incapable of attacking anyone but the smallest nations.

injure beyond repair or renewal is something very close to what MK tried to do to NPO.

ruin- well just check out all those ruins in that other realm that claims so many. none of those look to be completely destroyed to me.

render ineffective or useless- see reduce to useless fragments.

invalidate- to make not valid... well lets look up what valid means- valid means "well-founded, sound" "legally effective or binding"... to validate something is to "make valid"... so yeah trying to equate invalidate with "forced disbandment" shows that you are stretching the meaning of that word pretty thin.

defeat completely- well a defeated army tends to surrender... that means that in order to surrender GOONS could not be disbanded. again, stretching.

as for my #2 point- if you have no clue how to read your own post that i quoted before reading mine, then whatever. but no, i am not all over the place. in fact, my points pretty much follow the structure of your post just using first, second, and third structure. reread yours and figure out how the first part goes with the first part of your post where you discuss the word destroy. the second part- zomg- follows that with discussing the quote you put in, wait for it, right underneath where you discuss the word destroy. the third part goes along with the second part. wow. that was amazingly hard wasn't it?

actually, i never suggested you rearrange your post. you should reread mine with a more clear mind and realize where you made your mistake. but because you may have a hard time doing so, i will just lay it out. your whole post was full of !@#$%^&*. it was a weak argument and you suggested within your post you had stronger evidence.

"Anyway, the discussion of semantics is irrelevant, as [b]RV makes his intentions even more clear a number of other times:[/b]"

so what i suggested was that you just throw out the stronger evidence instead of the weak crap you did throw out.

@Rhobar- yeah great argument. excellent job. you totally shredded my entire argument./sarcasm the context i was unsure of was the context surrounding the quote that Denial had chosen. without that context, the quote is basically useless. sure anything taken out of context can be made to look bad. i could cherry pick quotes and most likely prove that MK wanted/wants to disband NPO and many other alliances. would that make it true? no not really. so if you are gonna try to bag on me, at least bring something to the table instead of some stupid remark.

@Goldielax- wait- you telling me no alliance has ever used the back channels to "posture"? right..... i am also sure and know for a fact that the back channels are also used for the facade you speak of.

back channels are only a private OWF. deals are made in back channels and those deals are made through various means which include posturing and faking.

also, love how you put in "established" in front of alliances. good spin. i am quite serious about that. i bet most would not have picked up on it.

as for CBs, so if NPO had gotten a hold of MK and others plotting their downfall before Karma and MK had gotten slammed by it, you would have stated it was a legitimate CB?

as for being hegemonic by osmosis- well i won't even touch that considering my feelings on what actually makes a hegemony.

[General Scipio]

Just FYI there is this thing called a shift key. It makes your writing readable. Please use it in the future, tia

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1286772143' post='2481214']
Just FYI there is this thing called a shift key. It makes your writing readable. Please use it in the future, tia
[/quote]

Acronyms: To capitalize or not to capitalize?

What is this "full stop" people keep going on about?

[LJ Scott]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1286760887' post='2480830']
Besides, even if they were in range I'd end up fighting 1 GOON and 3 PC/Umbrella/MK nations.
[/quote]

Awww come on, I'll be gentle

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='LJ Scott' timestamp='1286783113' post='2481388']
Awww come on, I'll be gentle
[/quote]
I doubt that

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1286757347' post='2480768']
Hail Haflinger, second vanguard of the Box!
[/quote]
Actually, by the time I found out about it, it was pretty much all already over. Perks of being retired

There were alot more than two though, if it'd just been RV and one other person we'd probably be in Bipolar II now.

[Louisa]

[quote name='Sooner' timestamp='1286753920' post='2480726']
Well he was responsible for his part as LOSS's leadership in GW2 and GW3.
[/quote]

sorry but I fear that you have mistaken our Blue-Fonted Saviour for another kettle of fish, namely that dastardly New Reverie. (NR or RV, who would win a cage fight?)

Well, have fun all. ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora%27s_box"]PS.[/url])

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1286763279' post='2480867']
^ After Ninjas and FnKa kicked it off, I started a thread in our forums titled: "Wars on GOONS; Anyone up for a suicide run?" but it didn't go anywhere
[/quote]

I'm sorry that there are intelligent people in your alliance.

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1286801233' post='2481469']
I'm sorry that there are intelligent people in your alliance.
[/quote]

Aren't you clever, you can imply things by inference! How about you but out, and leave judgements of the character of those involved in Rogufest 2010 to those PB members we are engaged with. At least they have conducted themselves respectfully, and havent engaged in hollow chest-beating or inane sideline commentary. (See I can do it too!)

[Skap Q]

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1286803340' post='2481477']
Aren't you clever, you can imply things by inference! How about you but out, and leave judgements of the character of those involved in Rogufest 2010 to those PB members we are engaged with. At least they have conducted themselves respectfully, and havent engaged in hollow chest-beating or inane sideline commentary. (See I can do it too!)
[/quote]

He has conducted himself much poorer than any of the combatants and he isn't even losing anything.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1286803340' post='2481477']
Aren't you clever, you can imply things by inference! How about you but out, and leave judgements of the character of those involved in Rogufest 2010 to those PB members we are engaged with. At least they have conducted themselves respectfully, and havent engaged in hollow chest-beating or inane sideline commentary. (See I can do it too!)
[/quote]

Boy that's one hell of an ego you've got. I wasn't even referring to you guys.

Are you going to even try to pretend that declaring on GOONS was a smart move? You've lost half of your NS and any political capital you could have accrued (except for the few who think you're attacking GOONS on a moral basis). You wrecked your alliance for no reason. So I said to Prodigal Moon that it's good that Silence has smart members who wouldn't support such an idiotic move.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='leprecon' timestamp='1286719181' post='2480375']
You have uncovered a secret conspiracy by highlighting one word. Congratulations!
[/quote]

Don't be silly, of course not. But words have a funny way of allowing perspective into ones mind.

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1286809016' post='2481515']
Boy that's one hell of an ego you've got. I wasn't even referring to you guys.

Are you going to even try to pretend that declaring on GOONS was a smart move? You've lost half of your NS and any political capital you could have accrued (except for the few who think you're attacking GOONS on a moral basis). You wrecked your alliance for no reason. So I said to Prodigal Moon that it's good that Silence has smart members who wouldn't support such an idiotic move.
[/quote]

Yes, I do indeed have a very healthy ego, thank you: Now tell us how you really feel. You remain unable to judge FnKa's declration by our standards. We wanted a war, we got one. GOONS and their partners in this war have accepted it with no real contest. Did you even consider we don't care about our statistics or supposed political capital? We found out who our real friends are, and even found some respect from the nations we are fighting. Thats worth the price we will eventually have to pay to the piper. Well, I'll be, eh?

[Hadrian]

[img]http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu8/AlexanderTheGreat2009/PandorasBox_2.jpg[/img]



That's all I have to say on the matter.

[Bob Janova]

I just hope that the actual announcement is as interesting as this thread.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1286816145' post='2481588']
I just hope that the actual announcement is as interesting as this thread.
[/quote]

Dear Janova,

Please tell the relevant people "Hurry Up!"

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1286812606' post='2481553']
You remain unable to judge FnKa's declration by our standards.[/quote]

The standards of celebrating roguery, right?

[quote]
We wanted a war, we got one. GOONS and their partners in this war have accepted it with no real contest. Did you even consider we don't care about our statistics or supposed political capital? We found out who our real friends are, and even found some respect from the nations we are fighting. Thats worth the price we will eventually have to pay to the piper. Well, I'll be, eh?
[/quote]

Don't think I don't accept your war. I'm very happy you declared on GOONS, and I'm quite enjoying watching you guys get rolled, especially by some of my former comrades. And sorry, I tend to think in conventional means as far as success goes. I would consider MK a successful alliance. I would consider FnKa an incompetent one, regardless of my personal feelings. But that's where you and I differ.

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1286817003' post='2481599']
The standards of celebrating roguery, right?
[/quote]

You know it. Friends remain more important to me than norms regarding sucess, and if a friend wants to make a stand on something based on subjective merit, I will support them. I guess thats where we differ.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1286817650' post='2481609']
You know it. Friends remain more important to me than norms regarding sucess, and if a friend wants to make a stand on something based on subjective merit, I will support them. I guess thats where we differ.
[/quote]

Where we differ is that if my friend is being an asshat, I'm going to tell them "Yo, you're being an asshat," not give them a spot in my government and condone what they did. I voted to fight with TOOL in Karma despite a) hating NPO, and b) knowing we'd likely get rolled. Don't lecture me on supporting friends.

[nippy]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1286813381' post='2481564']
That's all I have to say on the matter.
[/quote]

Put some effort into your propaganda next time.