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Return of the lulz


Unko Kalaikz

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[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1285832141' post='2469529']
I would argue that Vox was anti-lulz. If you look at the founding members of Vox, they all seem to put time into their posts and seem very competent. I also think you'd be surprised at the amount of anti-lulz folk out there.

The only reason I am not terribly upset that GOONS has returned is that they bring more members to Planet Bob. If Bob was on the rise, than I would love to see them rolled into oblivion.
[/quote]

See you're missing how Schattemen style logic works. It's not anti lulz so much as anti people who don't bow down to me.

1. Micro-alliances crushed causing some people to leave Bob: Bad
2. Crushing the GOONS AA and exterminating lulz style play (thus leading to people leaving Bob): Desirable

It's not so much a moral crusade as a "Get rid of the people that don't bow to me" kind of gig.

Edited by CRex of Gulo Gulo
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[quote name='Commisar Gaunt' timestamp='1285852019' post='2469685']
Lulz is just a label that NPO and friends used to call their enemies in order to make it appear as if they were somehow a joke alliance and nothing to be taken seriously. It doesn't actually mean anything, aside from the implication that fun is bad (and whoever hates 'lulz' alliances hates fun).
[/quote]

We have enemies? Who?

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[quote name='Commisar Gaunt' timestamp='1285852019' post='2469685']
Lulz is just a label that NPO and friends used to call their enemies in order to make it appear as if they were somehow a joke alliance and nothing to be taken seriously. It doesn't actually mean anything, aside from the implication that fun is bad (and whoever hates 'lulz' alliances hates fun).[/quote]
'Lulz' was a self-given title by many old alliances, and it grew naturally into a universally recognised style of activity from there. The Order had nothing to do with it.

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[quote name='Vladimir' timestamp='1285854342' post='2469707']
'Lulz' was a self-given title by many old alliances, and it grew naturally into a universally recognised style of activity from there. The Order had nothing to do with it.
[/quote]

But comrade, you forget. We are the great evil, it was us, and us alone who did all these bad things. Nobody else was involved but the big bad NPO :wacko:

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[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1285832141' post='2469529']
I would argue that Vox was anti-lulz. If you look at the founding members of Vox, they all seem to put time into their posts and seem very competent. I also think you'd be surprised at the amount of anti-lulz folk out there. [/quote]

Actually it was a mix. Doitzel and Electron Sponge were anti-lulz. Other prominent members were either pro-lulz or neither pro or anti-lulz.

[quote]The only reason I am not terribly upset that GOONS has returned is that they bring more members to Planet Bob. If Bob was on the rise, than I would love to see them rolled into oblivion.[/quote]

The nation rulers they usher in do not exceed the numbers they run off. At best they are a neutral influence--at worst we're leaking nations at a faster rate because of the "first person shooter" mentality of many of their members ("ha, ha! we owned that guy and he deleted!").

My take on the whole lulz thing: I enjoy humor. There's nothing wrong with some lulz now and again. If everything is very serious business, Planet Bob can be a rather dull place. When lulz becomes the dominant thing of everything you do however, whether you are a nation ruler or a whole alliance, then you're a comedian and don't be surprise if no one ever takes you seriously--even when you have a moment you're trying to be serious.

I have always strived for a balance, whether I was \m/ or Browncoats or Ragnarok or Valhalla. What people don't get, especially the OP, is that there is a difference between people who take things a bit tongue and cheek and those that play things like some sort of maniacal chaotic clown (a certain banned member and former member of \m/ comes immediately to mind...). There is also a difference between those types and people who are just plain cruel, sadistic, and anti-social and then try to cover what they do with humor or laugh at things normal people don't find funny at all. The /b/, eBaumsWorld.com, etc. types. People often mistake the later type for being "lulz" either purposely (as Electron Sponge) or because they are painting with too broad a brush.

Note to OP: When it suited Pacifica it kept a whole stable of what you call "lulz" alliances around to fight your wars. When you decided that one or more of them had become inconvenient, you through action or inaction allowed them to be cut down like a rabid dog. Those alliances were not without sin--indeed they had made many enemies on their own. but don't pretend that NPO didn't have its share of blood on its hands. There was plenty of blood shed to go around.

[i]OOC: As Admin hasn't seen fit to implement personality testing as part of the nation creation process, we'll always have people around the game who delight in spoiling the experience of other players in petty ways, or simply don't care that ganging up on people 3 vs. 1 and declaring and re-declaring on them until they quit/delete isn't cool. There's also not really a whole lot more Admin can do mechanically to remedy the situation in a meaningful way without seriously affecting the way legitimate wars are fought. The solution, if there is one, must come from the players.[/i]

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I'm not sure I can adequately describe how much I hate the word "lulz", and moreover, to be associated with it.

Also GOONS reformed concurrently with karma, not after, and we claimed protection from the orders, so I'm not really sure how you have any leg to stand on anyway.

Edited by Sardonic
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[quote name='Commisar Gaunt' timestamp='1285852019' post='2469685']
Lulz is just a label that NPO and friends used to call their enemies in order to make it appear as if they were somehow a joke alliance and nothing to be taken seriously. It doesn't actually mean anything, aside from the implication that fun is bad (and whoever hates 'lulz' alliances hates fun).
[/quote]
When you guys don't bother posting your own DoWs and just declare where ever you want you are a joke or rogue alliance, whichever term you prefer. That you guys declare on those you don't think can fight back, do what you want to those who can't do anything to resist and don't care about sticking to any of the normal procedures to war so people know exactly who is fighting makes me think you guys are a lulz alliance not to be taken seriously. Also your continued abuse of sanctions while trying to pass it off as dealing with rogues makes me think you guys don't care about the consequences as long as you get to have your fun.

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uggh.... GOONS nor \m/ truly bring much to this world other than annoying threads such as this. that being said, i reject any notion that Francoism truly exists anywhere outside of Pacifica. another thing that is quite amusing is this little "fact": "Despite the fact that the Continuum ushered in an age of unprecedented prosperity and peace," that is basically one huge lie. There was so much fear, curbstomps, and mini-wars that occurred during the time of Q as well as a couple of massive wars (WoTC for one) that to claim there was unprecedented prosperity (unless you were in Q or sucked their dick) and there was very little actual peace.

there is a reason NPO got its ass stomped on and no it was not some vengeance of "lulz" alliances when many of the alliances who stomped on NPO or fought against NPO/Q/etc were "conservative" alliances.

MK is a mix alliance in my opinion. they like to have fun but know how to play politicks at the same time. that is why they have managed to survive for as long as they have.

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1285895904' post='2470473']
uggh.... GOONS nor \m/ truly bring much to this world other than annoying threads such as this. that being said, i reject any notion that Francoism truly exists anywhere outside of Pacifica. another thing that is quite amusing is this little "fact": "Despite the fact that the Continuum ushered in an age of unprecedented prosperity and peace," that is basically one huge lie. There was so much fear, curbstomps, and mini-wars that occurred during the time of Q as well as a couple of massive wars (WoTC for one) that to claim there was unprecedented prosperity (unless you were in Q or sucked their dick) and there was very little actual peace.
[/quote]

I disagree. The only reason you generally had to fear was if you decided to be part of an alliance that was antagonistic to the Hegemony. I'm not saying there was never abuse of that power by clinger-ons and smaller allies (like GOONS before... and GOONS today...), or poor decisions made by Pacifica (we're human too :P ). But the reason why so many embraced Order was because it was good sense, and the francoist policies that brought Pacifica security and prosperity spilled over to less gifted alliances who were eager to seek the light.

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285912903' post='2470828']
I'm not saying there was never abuse of that power by clinger-ons and smaller allies (like GOONS before... and GOONS today...)
[/quote]

Do some damn research before opening your mouth. If you think Neutral Shoving was a 'clinger-on' of any sort, you're basing all your opinions on uneducated assumptions.

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[quote name='Anu Drake' timestamp='1285933242' post='2470961']
Don't call it a comeback, everyone's been here for years. But I do get your point on the rising levels. It's as if someone has opened a box that they shouldn't have. What's that box name I'm looking for...
[/quote]
[IMG]http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz304/Revanche23/haw-1.gif[/IMG]

Any claim that levels of tech raiding have risen is absolute nonsense. I challenge anyone making those claims to produce some concrete data. Anyone that has been: 1) around long enough to remember previous eras and 2) is not purposely ignoring facts to suit their political agenda, would realise that the prevalence of tech raiding has remained relatively constant. What changes is how much people either brag (think of the former incarnation of GOONS and \m/ in the Unjust Path era) or complain (think of right now) about the practice. Technology raiding is something that has always crossed ideological lines: there were raiders in The Initiative and The League, there were raiders in the ~ Coalition and the Unjust Path, there were raiders in both sides of the noCB War, there were raiders in both sides of the Karma War, just as there were raiders on both sides of the BiPolar War. The only time tech raiding actually matters is when there is a dearth of meaningful drama and/or when one particular 'side' wants to further themselves politically. Interestingly enough, said side will always ignore the fact that they are actually allied to raiders.

Edited by Denial
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Stagnation was readily apparent during Q's reign. The only reason that time was more exciting was because the opposing force actually had the fortitude and drive to bring about the demise of Q using more effective methods than feigning public outrage. They actually [i]did[/i] things, what a wonderful concept.

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Your analysis is interesting, and clearly took some time and effort.

It is also fatally flawed, however, by self-serving misconceptions.

[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285825307' post='2469442']
In fact the eradication and decline of lulz was in a way too successful. Vox Populi, which was a movement mostly lead by a combination of lulz remnants and ambitious outcasts, managed to successfully convince the world that order and civilization was a [i]bad[/i] thing. Despite the fact that the Continuum ushered in an age of unprecedented prosperity and peace, many reminisced for the days of war, glory and conquest, when leaders proved their merit on the battlefield rather than the office. [i]Stagnant[/i] became the new description of world affairs. [/quote]

This is a key part of the timeline and you have it disastrously wrong, if only by omission. Your "age of unprecedented prosperity and peace" for Q was in fact an era of unipolar arrogance. To hear you tell it, the lulz side was pretty ineffective and incompetent all along, so why do they suddenly become inhumanly powerful propagandists and manipulators overnight just by teaming up with 'some ambitious outcasts?'

The lulz0rz did not cause Karma, as you imply repeatedly they were never capable of it. Instead, they hitched a ride on the tsunami of blowback that Pacificas own actions had already set in motion. This is a fundamental misunderstanding caused by your refusal to admit the faults of your own Alliance.

[quote]Which nicely ties to the next point. Many wonder why Mushroom Kingdom and other alliances ally with GOONS. After all, they are physically insignificant, not even ranking amongst the top twenty alliances. They are poorly organized and relatively close to the state of nature, with inadequate leadership and poor discipline in the ranks, as demonstrated by Schattenman recently in his article [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=92632"]Institutional Anarchy.[/url] Yet they seem to be the standardbearer of the forces of chaos, just as Pacifica was the standardbearer of Order in the days of prosperity and reason.[/quote]

One might also wonder why back in the day Pacifica, 'the standardbearer of Order' as you wish to describe her, [i]imported[/i] the old GOONS to this world in the first place. They werent any different back then.

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[quote name='Unko Kalaikz' timestamp='1285825307' post='2469442']
a complete lack of intellectual substance
[/quote]

I believe you mean a lack of "stick up the assness." Not all of us love to hear ourselves talk quite as much as you.

Edited by Mathias
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