GOON spy orders

[Sardonic]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285244473' post='2462084']
I believe they are arguing with GOONS since they believe GOONS is not in the right. Honestly, it just seems like GOONS being GOONS. Folks forget that GOONS purposefully go for that whole spyglass ant burning 12 year old having a hissy fit schtick and want GOONS to act civil. In the civil world, what GOONS is doing is not right, in the GOONS world this is great fun.
[/quote]
Please explain to me how we are in the wrong for discovering the identity of somebody who secretly aided somebody we are at war with and prosecuting them. Your arguments are just vague statements of dislike for our alliance character, and do nothing to detract from the fact that we are right to seek justice.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1285242517' post='2462071']Your disasterous leadership of the ODN before and during the 3rd Great War makes anything out of your mouth regarding the Goons an absolute farce. My nation was ZIed due to your lack of decisive leadership in forming a proper military. Looking at these posts now make me slightly ill to my stomach thinking about what a sorry leader you were back then and how you got your entire alliance shot to hamburger fighting the first lot of Goons.

Seriously, put a cork in it.[/quote]I am old, but not too old to remember that I was elected to Secretary General AFTER GW III, when the ODN was in ruins.
Before that, I was hardly involved in the military, so your accusations are just stange.
I won't get here into an argument about the state of the ODN at the end of my term, but I don't think that it's something I need to be embarrassed with.
I don't know who you are and who is feeding you these stories. If you want to throw mud at me, at least get easily verifiable facts right.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Golan 1st

[Beefspari]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285244473' post='2462084']
I believe they are arguing with GOONS since they believe GOONS is not in the right. Honestly, it just seems like GOONS being GOONS. Folks forget that GOONS purposefully go for that whole spyglass ant burning 12 year old having a hissy fit schtick and want GOONS to act civil. In the civil world, what GOONS is doing is not right, in the GOONS world this is great fun.
[/quote]
That's a really weird thing to say. We aren't in the right? We aren't civil? We're the ones throwing a fit? Let me review the situation.

1) We post a thread asking people not to aid Methrage and that we'll take action against those that do
2) Two people do it anyway, we find out, and reps are paid
3) A third person does it again, presumably calling our bluff and/or thinking he'll get away with it
4) We check into it, he posts a thread saying that he'll declare war if we do it again (because he did it, and doesn't want to be caught)
5) We clarify that he did it, and offer the same deal as we gave the last two people
6) He declares war on us instead, stating he will never pay reps and he'll aid whoever he feels like

I'm not sure at what point any of the things you said happened. We aren't in the right, even though we gave fair warning, this is the THIRD TIME this has happened, and he started the conflict by aiding our enemy? We weren't civil, even though everyone involved knew what to expect, and we offered him the chance to pay reps that he didn't take? We threw a fit, because we did exactly what we said we'd do by checking into the situation and following up on it? And I'll remind you, he started it by sending aid, and then declaring war on us. He threw the fit by overreacting and not owning up to what he did. When presented with the truth, he just attacked us instead of seeking alternatives. I mean, we're cool to fight him, but you can hardly say we were in the wrong for warning everyone, requesting the same reps we've asked of everyone else, and then getting declared on.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I can't possibly imagine how we did anything wrong considering this is the third time this exact same situation has unfolded. Everyone knew what was going to happen, but it happened anyway. Nobody can say they were surprised by the events. We offered reps, he declared war. Please explain how we were wrong by following up on our word and offering what has been offered to the last two people who decided that our warning was okay to ignore. Please explain how if we say "don't aid this person," and you aid that person, you're somehow not at fault.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Beefspari

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285245250' post='2462088']
I am old, but not too old to remember that I was elected to Secretary General AFTER GW III, when the ODN was in ruins.
Before that, I was hardly involved in the military, so your accusations are just stange.
I won't get here into an argument about the state of the ODN at the end of my term, but I don't think that it's something I need to be embarrassed with.
I don't know who you are and who is feeding you these stories. If you want to throw mud at me, at least get easily verifiable facts right.
[/quote]

To be honest we sucked back then. Whether that's your fault is another matter.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1285245701' post='2462091']To be honest we sucked back then. Whether that's your fault is another matter.[/quote]That's something I cannot argue with
But he accused me personally

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285245797' post='2462092']
That's something I cannot argue with
But he accused me personally
[/quote]

The whole rogue Senator thing didn't really reflect well on you, but I'm not best qualified to comment as I wasn't around in ODN at the time and wasn't familiar with your story.

[eyriq]

Events do not occur in a vacuum. If you find your treatment [i]unjust[/i] introspection is in order.

[eejack]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1285245132' post='2462087']
Please explain to me how we are in the wrong for discovering the identity of somebody who secretly aided somebody we are at war with and prosecuting them. Your arguments are just vague statements of dislike for our alliance character, and do nothing to detract from the fact that we are right to seek justice.
[/quote]

I love GOONS Sardonic. That was a statement of support.

( GOONS are, of course, wrong anyway. Perhaps you figured out who aided a nation you have had sanctioned by multiple colors...even though
you declared war on his alliance...but you did so with scattershot phony aid attempts and by dragging in allies. The only way this might be justified is if you were right. Which luckily for Jim you were. The fact that you have made such a huge deal about this whole thing means folks will continue to aid the alliance you are attacking and eventually you will trip up and accuse the wrong person, causing a larger conflict. Which considering the GRL just started coming down means you are harming the entirety of planet bob with this farcical vendetta against a squeecky wheel. The amount of ruckus caused by this whole thing just proves this incarnation of GOONS can be manipulated like a puppet by a single nation. Which is not the GOONS I know and adore. )

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1285245909' post='2462094']The whole rogue Senator thing didn't really reflect well on you, but I'm not best qualified to comment as I wasn't around in ODN at the time and wasn't familiar with your story.[/quote]These things are separated by months, if not years.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Golan 1st

[James Wilson]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1285244863' post='2462086']
Pot, meet kettle.


Are you sure you're not an IRON member?
[/quote]
Wonderful post. Couldn't thank you enough for what a great contribution to the discussion your post made.

[Derwood1]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1285246025' post='2462096']
I love GOONS Sardonic. That was a statement of support.

( GOONS are, of course, wrong anyway. Perhaps you figured out who aided a nation you have had sanctioned by multiple colors...even though
you declared war on his alliance...but you did so with scattershot phony aid attempts and by dragging in allies. The only way this might be justified is if you were right. Which luckily for Jim you were. The fact that you have made such a huge deal about this whole thing means folks will continue to aid the alliance you are attacking and eventually you will trip up and accuse the wrong person, causing a larger conflict. Which considering the GRL just started coming down means you are harming the entirety of planet bob with this farcical vendetta against a squeecky wheel. The amount of ruckus caused by this whole thing just proves this incarnation of GOONS can be manipulated like a puppet by a single nation. Which is not the GOONS I know and adore. )
[/quote]

I think you might need to go back read up a bit before you jump into this.

[James Wilson]

[quote name='Mandolus' timestamp='1285231781' post='2462005']
Are you [i]kidding me[/i]? I can't possibly think of a better place to beat a dead horse than a GOONS thread!
[/quote]
Well, good luck with continuing to attempt to derail the thread. I'm actually going to talk about the topic cause that's what intelligent people do.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285215601' post='2461825']
UOKMB [b]defined themselves as rogues[/b] on more than one occasion, so we're going to go with them on this one. A group of rogues they may be, but not an alliance.
[/quote]
That's not relevant to the point I'm making. You should try and reread your post and my post, and see if you can figure it out.

(You should note that I've used the phrase "rogue alliance" on more than one occasion.)

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1285226044' post='2461973']
Secondly, where do we [i]brandish[/i] our "cowardice" as a valuable trait? I don't care if you think that smart and efficient raiding is cowardly, because while I disagree, you're entitled to that opinion. But... where do we brag about it? Yeah, sure, our raiding gets talked about a lot, but that's because it ruffles a lot of peoples' feathers. For the record, we have far more valuable traits than raiding a lot.
[/quote]
Oh ffs. You guys brag about your large number of declared wars at least once a day here on the forums. You don't brag about anything else besides your raiding.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1285242779' post='2462072']
Quite frankly, FAN could have no allies and nobody would want to tangle with them, in my opinion.
[/quote]
You'd be wrong. (No, I'm not one of the people who'd want to. But I know some people who would.)

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1285248164' post='2462116']
You'd be wrong. (No, I'm not one of the people who'd want to. But I know some people who would.)
[/quote]

I suppose you are best mates with NPO, but even they would want to avoid war with FAN at the moment. I suppose Umbrella could handle them no problem though.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1285242779' post='2462072']
Quite frankly, FAN could have no allies and nobody would want to tangle with them, in my opinion.
[/quote]

When we fought them they seemed a bit...rusty, I guess, though spirited. The extended period time spent not fighting and not being as familiar with various changes to Planet Bob military mechanics would likely account for that. Still, it was also clear they had friends willing to come to their aid, and as I stated more or less, allies make the difference.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1285248330' post='2462118']
I suppose you are best mates with NPO, but even they would want to avoid war with FAN at the moment. I suppose Umbrella could handle them no problem though.
[/quote]
lol

No, you're completely barking up the wrong tree. I'm not talking about them either.

But it's OK. I'm pretty sure there isn't an alliance of any relevance whatsoever that [i]somebody[/i] doesn't want to roll. I don't know anyone who wants to hit GPA, but I'd be surprised if there isn't some goofy alliance leader out there with a grudge.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1285248850' post='2462127']
When we fought them they seemed a bit...rusty, I guess, though spirited. The extended period time spent not fighting and not being as familiar with various changes to Planet Bob military mechanics would likely account for that. Still, it was also clear they had friends willing to come to their aid, and as I stated more or less, allies make the difference.
[/quote]

Oh sure, two years in peacemode under NPO's jackboot doesn't do aanyone's fighting ability much good. They're still a very impressive alliance though and I'd think twice before hitting them.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1285248919' post='2462128']
lol

No, you're completely barking up the wrong tree. I'm not talking about them either.
[/quote]

Then man up and say who they are, dammit. And people wonder why these forums aren't interesting.

[The MVP]

So we're supposed to be moral when dealing with GOONS when they're one of the biggest proponents of the anti-moralist brigade?

[quote]Spare me the disappointment speech please Bob. The fact that you now vouch for Goons does not erase my experience with them. [/quote]

This is probably the greatest pimp slap I've seen, ever.

Edited September 23, 2010 by The MVP

[Biazt]

Essentially this entire discussion comes down to some people being hypocritical and having double standards.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Biazt

[potato]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1285249870' post='2462140']
So we're supposed to be moral when dealing with GOONS when they're one of the biggest proponents of the anti-moralist brigade?
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with morality. GOONS say "Don't aid Methrage while he's at war with us". People do it anyway, get caught and are punished. It's as simple as that.

[ArneS]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1285249870' post='2462140']
So we're supposed to be moral when dealing with GOONS when they're one of the biggest proponents of the anti-moralist brigade?
[/quote]

So you admit that you are all hypocrites, and that your "morals" only apply when convenient?

I already knew that, this thread makes it even more clear.

[ArneS]

double

Edited September 23, 2010 by ArneS

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1285251370' post='2462150']
This has nothing to do with morality. GOONS say "Don't aid Methrage while he's at war with us". People do it anyway, get caught and are punished. It's as simple as that.
[/quote]

Yes and no.

Yes, people should be smart enough to realize that GOONS only has to make one IRC query before their friends jump to and start making moves. Sometimes they just simply volunteer. Spying. Bashing their critics in the forums. Whatever is required.

Indeed, I think it's not too much of a stretch to say that GOONS appears to be the one that wears these:

[img]http://www.performancetrendz.com/Images/Categories/mans-cotton-sateen-pants-jn05mp003f.jpg[/img]

the pants, in the relationship.

No, in that GOONS gives people on Planet Bob another reason to hate them every single day and they simply don't care. It makes it easier to root for the underdog, the underdog being whoever is opposing GOONS, even when that underdog has done something rather rash.

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1285251370' post='2462150']
This has nothing to do with morality. GOONS say "Don't aid Methrage while he's at war with us". People do it anyway, get caught and are punished. It's as simple as that.
[/quote]

I think peoples' argument over morality skirts the issue of the 'cult of sucess.' Namely, the spy operations the GOONS conduceted were justified ex post facto because they were correct. If they had accused someone who didn't do it, and conducted spy operations there would be the usual crowd bleating about how it was a violation of soverigenty and GOONS should be paying reps.

Edit: Commas are evil.

Edited September 23, 2010 by DeadAnimal