International Coalition of Armed Nations

[Believland]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281745305' post='2415088']
Who is this guy anyway? Does he realize how bad he is making himself look with the whole cowardly line? Using ICAN"s opinion to justify your own? LMAO
[/quote]

Someone who has shown in the past that he has no idea what he's saying.

Caleb, ICAN also screamed the loudest that GATO was great.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Caleb279' timestamp='1281743296' post='2415042']
No.
Its still cowardly, even ICAN agreed. So you stop thinking you know everything, please.
[/quote]

ICAN supported GATO the most in their cancellation.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1281740619' post='2414971']
So you have the timing argument, and then a bunch of stuff about Omni. Yeah, GATO are totally cowards.
[/quote]

No GATO are not cowards, nor was that the point I was trying to make. The post I quoted, and subsequently replied to was that there was very little reason to bash GATO. I merely showed that there was plenty reason to bash GATO's AC and GATO itself.

[Sir Sci]

As much as I still like some members in ICAN, I cannot say that I am unhappy about this.

Emp was unhappy when we told him to bring his ego into check, so he cancels. No surprise.

o/ GATO

[Caleb279]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1281745664' post='2415095']
Someone who has shown in the past that he has no idea what he's saying.

Caleb, ICAN also screamed the loudest that GATO was great.
[/quote]
I've got a better history than you, just because you may have disagreed with me in the past doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying.

Yeah, I've seen that now. That wasn't a great point, but I stand by my statement. You guys can defend GATO all you want, but plenty of people agree...a treaty cancellation during a war is a cowardly thing to do. Yes, NSO said they weren't calling for help...if their allies had any stones they'd back them up anyway, thats my opinion.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Caleb279

[Cao Pai]

[quote name='Caleb279' timestamp='1281772412' post='2415547']
I've got a better history than you, just because you may have disagreed with me in the past doesn't mean I don't know what I'm saying.

Yeah, I've seen that now. That wasn't a great point, but I stand by my statement. You guys can defend GATO all you want, but plenty of people agree...a treaty cancellation during a war is a cowardly thing to do. Yes, NSO said they weren't calling for help...if their allies [s]had any stones[/s] were stupid they'd back them up anyway, that's my opinion.
[/quote]



That's my opinion.

[DevastationStation]

Dubya... tee... eff - no, seriously, what is this.. I don't even..? After all that mindless hailing in the cancellation thread (NSO)...? Huh?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1281740214' post='2414963']
There is the timing, the weak excuse used, the fact that Omni didn't have the support of his alliance to do it at the time, the fact that omni presented half truths to the people in GATO who [i]did[/i] actually support the move in order to get them to approve etc...
[/quote]

so wait, where is there a fact that the entire alliance did not support Omni? i have not seen, nor heard of this until you stated it Jac. second, the weak excuse? please. NSO was idiotic throughout the entire process. Yes, Hoo was also pretty stupid throughout, demanding crap without giving a shred of proof until the very end at which point he ceased diplomatic efforts and launched a war. Now, just because Hoo did not use a very diplomatic approach, does not mean that NSO couldn't. Heft should never have sent the aid after Hoo stated very specifically that "any aid sent will result in war". sorry, but it is very clear that Hoo will declare war. Heft sent the aid anyways and did so without once communicating to GATO at least (hell from the sounds of it, NSO's other gov members had no clue) that Heft was about to do an action that would result in a war. just because NSO did not [i]believe[/i] that war would occur, fact is, the threat of war over aid was there.

so, what else do you need? i do not support this war in the least, i think it is pathetic that Hoo/RoK went to war over 6 measly million. but, Heft knew what would happen if he sent the aid (sorry, but to not consider the worst option first and foremost is just plain ridiculous when it comes to matters like this. if war is threatened, you should always assume war will be brought) and sent it anyways.

what Omni did is between Omni and GATO, no one else. If GATO feels the same as you, then they will act accordingly. if they don't, then they will act accordingly. what Heft did had the very real potential of drawing in GATO and forcing GATO to tee off against other allies of theirs. Then there is the fact that NSO was trying to get GATO to bring in their allies. does not sound like NSO was considering not asking their allies to come in, until GATO told them about this.

so, how about you stop trying to make it seem like GATO is the worst ally ever and realize that NSO $%&@ed up huge in this entire mess. The only mistake GATO made was timing, plain and simple. any attempt to paint it otherwise is ridiculous considering what NSO did or tried to do.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1281806625' post='2415810']
so wait, where is there a fact that the entire alliance did not support Omni? i have not seen, nor heard of this until you stated it Jac.[/quote]
According to Magicninja the treaty actually was not dead until several days after the post by omni, because omni did not have the authority to terminate it by himself. Also there was the fact that a certain GATO official(not omni) apologized to NSO for his actions in the GATO thread because he was not presented with all of the facts by Omni. I guess you need to look a little closer, because this was a very tough issue for GATO internally after the original nullification, and it is easy to see.

[quote]second, the weak excuse? please. NSO was idiotic throughout the entire process. Yes, Hoo was also pretty stupid throughout, demanding crap without giving a shred of proof until the very end at which point he ceased diplomatic efforts and launched a war. [/quote]
Right there you prove the point that NSO had little reason to alert GATO because it is so absurd to war over 6 mil. If I say don't come into my IRC channel or we will declare war, will you run around telling all your allies to get ready to fight? No you wouldn't, because it is absurd.



[quote]what Omni did is between Omni and GATO, no one else. If GATO feels the same as you, then they will act accordingly. if they don't, then they will act accordingly. what Heft did had the very real potential of drawing in GATO and forcing GATO to tee off against other allies of theirs. Then there is the fact that NSO was trying to get GATO to bring in their allies. does not sound like NSO was considering not asking their allies to come in, until GATO told them about this. [/quote]

This is pure speculation on your part. I have been with NSO the whole way and NSO was never planning on activating any treaties even before GATO alerted them of this cancellation.

[quote]so, how about you stop trying to make it seem like GATO is the worst ally ever and realize that NSO $%&@ed up huge in this entire mess. The only mistake GATO made was timing, plain and simple. any attempt to paint it otherwise is ridiculous considering what NSO did or tried to do.[/quote]

They are not a bad ally as long as coming in for your defense furthers their political goals, or is convenient for them, plain and simple.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Jacapo Saladin

[JWConner]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1281664614' post='2413646']
Magic careful where you step... I was asked not to post screen shots and logs.. but you're pushing it. Learn what you are talking about before your mouth gets GATO some more bad PR. Run along now kiddo.
[/quote]

lolEmp

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1281665607' post='2413673']
Well that's quite the turn around.

You should probably just stop.
[/quote]

You know you fail when you have me and Athens agreeing on something.

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281667500' post='2413728']
Hey GATO have you guys thought about hiring these guys for your PR department? They do almost as good a job as Penkala. Almost.
[/quote]

I dunno, Penkala is pretty amazing. But then again, Emp is pretty amazing himself. How bout we call it a tie?


[quote name='Cao Pai' timestamp='1281744268' post='2415065']
That's like citing Wikipedia in a college level essay.
[/quote]

hahahahaha

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1281830135' post='2416161']
According to Magicninja the treaty actually was not dead until several days after the post by omni, because omni did not have the authority to terminate it by himself. Also there was the fact that a certain GATO official(not omni) apologized to NSO for his actions in the GATO thread because he was not presented with all of the facts by Omni. I guess you need to look a little closer, because this was a very tough issue for GATO internally after the original nullification, and it is easy to see.[/quote]

so what you are saying is that GATO had a hard time actually canceling this treaty? heh. seems like all those out there saying that GATO are cowards who conveniently drop their treaties are spinning quite a bit since you just stated how rough a time GATO had with actually doing this. thanks for the clarification on that.


[quote] Right there you prove the point that NSO had little reason to alert GATO because it is so absurd to war over 6 mil. If I say don't come into my IRC channel or we will declare war, will you run around telling all your allies to get ready to fight? No you wouldn't, because it is absurd.[/quote]

Actually, if it was me, i would have told Hoo to $%&@ off and told my allies we were most likely going to war since it appeared that Hoo was hellbent on war. but that is just me, guess when an alliance threatens war if i do such and such, i take it seriously no matter how stupidly absurd it is.


[quote]This is pure speculation on your part. I have been with NSO the whole way and NSO was never planning on activating any treaties even before GATO alerted them of this cancellation.[/quote]

read below and see your own pure speculation Jac.

[quote]They are not a bad ally as long as coming in for your defense furthers their political goals, or is convenient for them, plain and simple.
[/quote]

oh, yup, here it is. your own pure speculation. if you are going to tell me not to speculate (though mine has Omni stating he was asked to bring in his allies to the war planning room, not to mention he himself being asked, which begs the question if NSO was not actually going to drag their allies in, why were they asking Omni to enter the war planning room?)

not to mention, you stated how hard of a time GATO had internally with canceling this treaty and yet, you make it seem as if it was easy for them to do just that with this comment. good job on contradicting yourself mate. Either GATO easily threw away this treaty or they had a rough time with canceling it. it has to be one or the other, cannot be both. which version do you want to stick with?

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1281831918' post='2416176']




oh, yup, here it is. your own pure speculation. if you are going to tell me not to speculate (though mine has Omni stating he was asked to bring in his allies to the war planning room, not to mention he himself being asked, which begs the question if NSO was not actually going to drag their allies in, why were they asking Omni to enter the war planning room?)

not to mention, you stated how hard of a time GATO had internally with canceling this treaty and yet, you make it seem as if it was easy for them to do just that with this comment. good job on contradicting yourself mate. Either GATO easily threw away this treaty or they had a rough time with canceling it. it has to be one or the other, cannot be both. which version do you want to stick with?
[/quote]

Uh, this "war planning room" is just a place where NSO allies can gather to get updates on the whole situation. /gasp


Gato itself had a hard time cancelling(democracy), omni and a select few of his government did not. So yes it can be both

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1281838691' post='2416241']
Uh, this "war planning room" is just a place where NSO allies can gather to get updates on the whole situation. /gasp


Gato itself had a hard time cancelling(democracy), omni and a select few of his government did not. So yes it can be both
[/quote]

so, gov=entire alliance, which means when Heft aided sedrick, it was all of NSO aiding sedrick. also, if it was a place to simply get updates- why call it a war planning room? couldn't they simply call it a private chan for their allies? or if it was to simply get updates, i am not sure why queries would not have sufficed as it seems to have been the way in which Omni was updated in the first place. calling it a war planning room carries, well, a huge implication that, well to be frank and honest, war is going to be planned in that room. not updates on the whole situation. so you can gasp all you want, but calling it a war planning room will tend to give someone the impression that war planning will occur. if that is not the impression that was wanted, then NSO should have called it something different.

and honestly, you cannot tell me that if i were to invite you to a war planning room (if we were allies) you would not think a war (whether defensive or offensive) was not in the works. i know you are not that dumb to actually think a war planning room would be anything but a war planning room. nor can you think anyone is that dumb.

[Griff]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1281846915' post='2416346']
so, gov=entire alliance, which means when Heft aided sedrick, it was all of NSO aiding sedrick. also, if it was a place to simply get updates- why call it a war planning room? couldn't they simply call it a private chan for their allies? or if it was to simply get updates, i am not sure why queries would not have sufficed as it seems to have been the way in which Omni was updated in the first place. calling it a war planning room carries, well, a huge implication that, well to be frank and honest, war is going to be planned in that room. not updates on the whole situation. so you can gasp all you want, but calling it a war planning room will tend to give someone the impression that war planning will occur. if that is not the impression that was wanted, then NSO should have called it something different.

and honestly, you cannot tell me that if i were to invite you to a war planning room (if we were allies) you would not think a war (whether defensive or offensive) was not in the works. i know you are not that dumb to actually think a war planning room would be anything but a war planning room. nor can you think anyone is that dumb.
[/quote]

I can see what people mean when they talk about strawmen after this

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Griff' timestamp='1281864907' post='2416552']
I can see what people mean when they talk about strawmen after this
[/quote]

lawlz. okay. if that is a strawman, then everything Jac has said against GATO is strawman since i simply used what he said against GATO, against NSO. honestly, i don't care one way or the other really. either Jac's argument stands strong and thus so does mine, or Jac's argument is destroyed and so is mine. either way, it really is a win-win for me.

[Ernsters]

Hope you don't mind my interjection in your case of "blah blah" and "blah blah"

Congrats getting out there on your own ICAN

[The Corrupt Teacher]

How did I miss this? One of my favorite CN failures goes and makes himself look like a moron again and I missed it? Seriously ICAN needs to disband while its still only a bit behind.

Also like Tyler said when are you going to roll him/me/TIO?

[Skippy]

Well Bernkastel is now nuclear, it could be any day :3

We need to fill a few holes in our gov first though

[ooc]RL claimed a few victims :/[/ooc]

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1281940670' post='2417661']
Well Bernkastel is now nuclear, it could be any day :3
[/quote]

Emp is in my range... in fact, he's the only one. :<

[xplicit313]

It was not an easy decision to make to cancel GATO as our protectorate, and we at ICAN still love GATO very much. I will still hail GATO for the right decisions, as I would any other alliance. I trust any decision Omni makes just like I would trust any decision my brother would make, and the same goes with Emporor. Some of you may not like us, and for that I suppose I understand, as we all have our reasoning behind things. That is really all I have to say on the subject.

[porksaber]

[quote name='Bernkastel' timestamp='1281941382' post='2417677']
Emp is in my range... in fact, he's the only one. :<
[/quote]

I strongly encourage you to act on this!

[Penkala]

Attacking ICAN or encouraging rogues to hit them will probably end very poorly for the aggressors.

[Cao Pai]

Seeing how they're only 12 members now I don't think anybody is willing to waste their time.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1282015003' post='2418588']
Attacking ICAN or encouraging rogues to hit them will probably end very poorly for the aggressors.
[/quote]

i encourage \m/ to make ICAN an attacktorate...

[Augustus Autumn]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1282022920' post='2418927']
i encourage \m/ to make ICAN an attacktorate...
[/quote]

That would imply the effort in doing so is worthwhile.