Decree of the Sith

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1281597136' post='2412469']
As a basic timeline, yes. Obviously we knew there was an issue, but we were waiting to see whether any proof could be offered of sedrick's guilt. Instead, Rok just DoW'd him out of the blue.
[/quote]

Why didn't you ask about reps when you asked for proof of guilt?

[Sulmar]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1281597310' post='2412472']
Why didn't you ask about reps when you asked for proof of guilt?
[/quote]
Because we weren't going to pay reps if he wasn't guilty?

[R&R-Viking]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1281597650' post='2412479']
Because we weren't going to pay reps if he wasn't guilty?
[/quote]

You believe he's not guilty, correct?

You went to war over him, and are losing badly.

Guess what you'll probably have to do anyway!

[fant0m]

[quote name='Viking' timestamp='1281608645' post='2412564']
You believe he's not guilty, correct?

You went to war over him, and are losing badly.

Guess what you'll probably have to do anyway!
[/quote]

Don't bother asking for proof of guilt when we attack one of your members....just pay the reps we demand or we'll roll you and take the reps as well!

[Drai]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281587845' post='2412252']
How is that in any way a reply to what I said?
[/quote]
Really? You tried to justify NSO helping him out by saying they had talked to the 'rogue' and discovered he had a good reason. They refused to listen to anybody else's story. It has everything to do with what you said.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='fant0m' timestamp='1281615305' post='2412590']
Don't bother asking for proof of guilt when we attack one of your members....just pay the reps we demand or we'll roll you and take the reps as well!
[/quote]

My sarcasm needs new batteries

Edited August 12, 2010 by kevin32891

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1281616699' post='2412600']
Really? You tried to justify NSO helping him out by saying they had talked to the 'rogue' and discovered he had a good reason.
[/quote]
No, I didn't say that. Reread my post, please.

(It doesn't say who they asked questions of.)

[Corinan]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1281618853' post='2412615']
So you can just waltz around and go harassing alliances, and if you make a !@#$%^&* reason to attack said alliance. They should shut up and pay the reps without any proof of guilt?
[/quote]

I think your sarcasm detector needs new batteries, brotha.

[deathcat]

[quote name='fant0m' timestamp='1281615305' post='2412590']
Don't bother asking for proof of guilt when we attack one of your members....just pay the reps we demand or we'll roll you and take the reps as well!
[/quote]

This seems to encompass my feelings on this matter... Bully up NSO or else...

oo/ NSO (I hope you get this resolved quickly.. BS diplomacy FTW?)

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1281596730' post='2412463']
They didn't come to us saying they were going to attack him, they just attacked him.
[/quote]


He told you himself he was going to be attacked [b]before[/b] he was accepted, and yes we did come to you about it. We were pretty much told that you guys would decide if he is a rogue or not ... which is actually pretty damn ridiculous. Again, you guys interjected yourselves into something that did not concern you.

[Merrie Melodies]

1. Sedrick is at war
2. NSO recruits Sedrick while wars are on going
3. RoK contacts NSO about Sedrick and his application to NSO (Lets face it, NSO wouldn't have given TENE the time of day so their protectors RoK needed to do this)
4. NSO claims sovereignty of Sedrick and the actions taking place prior to Sedrick being a member
5. RoK states you have no sovereign claim to what happened to Sedrick and if you aid him we will consider it a act of war
6. NSO aids Sedrick
7. RoK rolls NSO

Did I miss anything? Is anything I said not true?

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281633980' post='2412873']
He told you himself he was going to be attacked [b]before[/b] he was accepted, and yes we did come to you about it. We were pretty much told that you guys would decide if he is a rogue or not ... which is actually pretty damn ridiculous. Again, you guys interjected yourselves into something that did not concern you.
[/quote]

I understand your point of view, but the way we saw it was that he was our member. If we considered him a rogue, then we would eject him, which would allow you to attack him. I can see how that would seem ridiculous from your point of view, but from our stance, the second that we accepted him, he became our member. This means that we would have to protect him from future attacks. We would not assist him from his current or prior engagements because that is our policy. In retrospect, considering how dumb this member is, I would have ejected him earlier solely on how much trouble he was causing for us. But we don't think it's that ridiculous for us to ask for evidence. We have had countless situations like these where other alliances provided us with the necessary evidence for us to eject people like sedrick. This is literally our procedure, and we've never had a problem like this up until now.

EDIT: All in all. Thinking about this gave me a headache. And thinking about this now continues to give me a headache. This war is so dumb.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Jrenster

[Adam Suttler]

[quote name='Viking' timestamp='1281522612' post='2411017']
Yeah well I've been on this side the entire time and not once did Nordreich ever apologize to me or my old alliance (R&R) for the crimes they committed against us in two wars (rogues, ghosting). If you're entitled to declare injustices, I'm allowed to hold a grudge.

e- ugh, this should have been in the above post
[/quote]
What NoR has done to you in the past has no bearing to current events, nor does it hold any bearing to my position in this scandal. I speak for myself, and as such, I don't expect my alliance affiliation to be of any consequence when I do so.

Edit: I'd like to add that, if it's any consolation, I'm sorry for your loss with NoR's past transgressions, but I'm obviously not in a position to speak for my whole alliance. I'm a firm believer in straight diplomacy, and the effects that it can have in attaining peace. I also hate holding grudges, and having them held against me or my alliance, especially if it can be easily rectified.

Perhaps our problem is that we generalize the attitudes of our peers through the affiliation of the collective alliance, ignoring the individual's opinion, tone, and argumentative direction. But enough philosophy for today.

The fact remains that this war really shouldn't be a war. Sure, mistakes were made, but they could have been rectified easily and effectively through diplomatic and monetary means, rather through open warfare. Alas, there's nothing we can do.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281634657' post='2412883']
1. Sedrick is at war
2. NSO recruits Sedrick while wars are on going
3. RoK contacts NSO about Sedrick and his application to NSO (Lets face it, NSO wouldn't have given TENE the time of day so their protectors RoK needed to do this)
4. NSO claims sovereignty of Sedrick and the actions taking place prior to Sedrick being a member
5. RoK states you have no sovereign claim to what happened to Sedrick and if you aid him we will consider it a act of war
6. NSO aids Sedrick
7. RoK rolls NSO

Did I miss anything? Is anything I said not true?
[/quote]
The usual diplomatic negociations between steps 3-6 have been omitted by RoK, which doesn't really give NSO much room for explanation or admission of their mistake. Otherwise, everything seems to be normal. Though I'm not sure that fighting a war over Sedrick is in NSO's best interests. However, it is the principle of the idea that counts, I suppose.

What I'd like to turn your attention to, is the fact that RoK had to ask for the assistance of 3+ alliances to attack NSO, simply because of a breach in rogue protocol. If that is not highly suspect and rather overkill in nature, I'm not sure what definition you're looking for.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Adam Suttler

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Adam Suttler' timestamp='1281640498' post='2413019']
What NoR has done to you in the past has no bearing to current events, nor does it hold any bearing to my position in this scandal. I speak for myself, and as such, I don't expect my alliance affiliation to be of any consequence when I do so.

Edit: I'd like to add that, if it's any consolation, I'm sorry for your loss with NoR's past transgressions, but I'm obviously not in a position to speak for my whole alliance. I'm a firm believer in straight diplomacy, and the effects that it can have in attaining peace. I also hate holding grudges, and having them held against me or my alliance, especially if it can be easily rectified.

Perhaps our problem is that we generalize the attitudes of our peers through the affiliation of the collective alliance, ignoring the individual's opinion, tone, and argumentative direction. But enough philosophy for today.

The fact remains that this war really shouldn't be a war. Sure, mistakes were made, but they could have been rectified easily and effectively through diplomatic and monetary means, rather through open warfare. Alas, there's nothing we can do.


The usual diplomatic negociations between steps 3-6 have been omitted by RoK, which doesn't really give NSO much room for explanation or admission of their mistake. Otherwise, everything seems to be normal. Though I'm not sure that fighting a war over Sedrick is in NSO's best interests. However, it is the principle of the idea that counts, I suppose.

What I'd like to turn your attention to, is the fact that RoK had to ask for the assistance of 3+ alliances to attack NSO, simply because of a breach in rogue protocol. If that is not highly suspect and rather overkill in nature, I'm not sure what definition you're looking for.
[/quote]
Steps 3,4 and 5 were the diplomatic steps. Once a "do this and get that" statement is issued there really isn't much left to talk about, especially when one indeed performs the "do this" part for it leads straight to "get that"

[Tautology]

[quote name='Adam Suttler' timestamp='1281640498' post='2413019']
What I'd like to turn your attention to,... [/quote]
Ooh, maybe he's discovered a new insight...

[quote]... is the fact that RoK had to ask for the assistance of 3+ alliances to attack NSO, simply because of a breach in rogue protocol. If that is not highly suspect and rather overkill in nature, I'm not sure what definition you're looking for.[/quote]
... but, no, it's the same thing that has already been explained at least 4 times in this forum.

There's a good reason why people learn to read before they learn to write, Adam. Please at least skim the relevant topics before you post.

[Adam Suttler]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281641149' post='2413040']
Steps 3,4 and 5 were the diplomatic steps. Once a "do this and get that" statement is issued there really isn't much left to talk about, especially when one indeed performs the "do this" part for it leads straight to "get that"
[/quote]
I just don't think that a full-scale war is necessary in the obliteration of a rogue. In any normal situation, a series of diplomatic talks and reps would be paid in order to resolve the issue. In this case, it just seems as though NSO made a small mistake, and has to pay for it with their lives. What is just in this type of conflict? It's overkill and bloodthirst from Hoo's side; nothing more, nothing less.

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1281641367' post='2413046']
Ooh, maybe he's discovered a new insight...


... but, no, it's the same thing that has already been explained at least 4 times in this forum.

There's a good reason why people learn to read before they learn to write, Adam. Please at least skim the relevant topics before you post.
[/quote]
I wasn't about to reveal any new insights as to the function of the war, but I was hoping to solidify as to why such efforts were required, in order to solve a small problem such as a rogue. It's not news, but I'd like some further clarification. Sorry for the slight inconvenience in my postings.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Adam Suttler

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Adam Suttler' timestamp='1281641369' post='2413047']
I just don't think that a full-scale war is necessary in the obliteration of a rogue. In any normal situation, a series of diplomatic talks and reps would be paid in order to resolve the issue. In this case, it just seems as though NSO made a small mistake, and has to pay for it with their lives. What is just in this type of conflict? It's overkill and bloodthirst from Hoo's side; nothing more, nothing less.


I wasn't about to reveal any new insights as to the function of the war, but I was hoping to solidify as to why such efforts were required, in order to solve a small problem such as a rogue. It's not news, but I'd like some further clarification. Sorry for the slight inconvenience in my postings.
[/quote]
I agree, normally this type of affair wouldn't have led to war. I believe you have to look into the NSO behavior, especially since the end of the Bi-Polar war to get a real sense of why people were so quick to set diplomacy aside. You can only sit on a highway overpass throwing tomatoes at passer byes for so long before one of them gets a hold of you.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281641759' post='2413059']
I agree, normally this type of affair wouldn't have led to war. I believe you have to look into the NSO behavior, especially since the end of the Bi-Polar war to get a real sense of why people were so quick to set diplomacy aside. You can only sit on a highway overpass throwing tomatoes at passer byes for so long before one of them gets a hold of you.
[/quote]

What have we done since the end of the Bi-Polar War? We've actually been pretty toned down, which I hated.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281643770' post='2413135']
What have we done since the end of the Bi-Polar War? We've actually been pretty toned down, which I hated.
[/quote]
Are you really going to make me go digging through 6 months of threads to list all of them? How many dealing with CSN are there from you alone?

As to why you ended up in war so soon I can't answer with anything concrete as I am not in RoK, but I think I have a fair idea. Hell many of our members who came from RAD are doing cart wheels over this war. Remember when NSO stomped RAD over Jason8 accepting a duel offer from Anthony? A equally stupid war you took delight in. What comes around goes around.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281646780' post='2413205']
Are you really going to make me go digging through 6 months of threads to list all of them? How many dealing with CSN are there from you alone?

As to why you ended up in war so soon I can't answer with anything concrete as I am not in RoK, but I think I have a fair idea. Hell many of our members who came from RAD are doing cart wheels over this war. Remember when NSO stomped RAD over Jason8 accepting a duel offer from Anthony? A equally stupid war you took delight in. What comes around goes around.
[/quote]

Let the hate consume you and allow you to come back to your home once more.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281648226' post='2413253']
Let the hate consume you and allow you to come back to your home once more.
[/quote]
\m/ was always my home, I do love me some Sith, but compared to \m/ you guys at best are my friends with benefits.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Merrie Melodies

[streak324]

This might be like the vietnam war when U.S. spends billions of dollars just to protect a nation and then watch it become captured. Do not let something like that happen NSO.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281633980' post='2412873']
He told you himself he was going to be attacked [b]before[/b] he was accepted, and yes we did come to you about it. We were pretty much told that you guys would decide if he is a rogue or not ... which is actually pretty damn ridiculous. Again, you guys interjected yourselves into something that did not concern you.
[/quote]


[quote]Session Start: Sat Aug 07 22:02:17 2010
[22:02] <Heft> Hi
11[22:02] <VanHooIII[RoK]> Hello
[22:03] <Heft> Your guys are attacking a new member of ours: http://www.cybernati...ation_ID=410982
[22:03] <Heft> I'd prefer if that didn't happen[/quote]

I'm sorry but isn't that clearly not the case according to these logs?

[Static]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281634657' post='2412883']
1. Sedrick is at war
2. NSO recruits Sedrick while wars are on going
3. RoK contacts NSO about Sedrick and his application to NSO (Lets face it, NSO wouldn't have given TENE the time of day so their protectors RoK needed to do this)
4. NSO claims sovereignty of Sedrick and the actions taking place prior to Sedrick being a member
5. RoK states you have no sovereign claim to what happened to Sedrick and if you aid him we will consider it a act of war
6. NSO aids Sedrick
7. RoK ,[b]and FRIENDS[/b] rolls NSO

Did I miss anything? Is anything I said not true?
[/quote]
Had to fix that for you.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='lionheart' timestamp='1281650628' post='2413319']
Had to fix that for you.
[/quote]
Heck. I'll accept your edit, it doesn't change the facts of how it went down.