Decree of the Sith

[Drai]

It'd be hilarious if you guys did ask for help, honestly.

[Boyle]

!@#$, good luck NSO. Have some fun with it, at least.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281312879' post='2405387']
I doubt very much that the NSO's treaties include a "request for help" clause. Thus I'm going to conclude that any treaty partner not defending the Legion of Brown is led by lying cowards.
[/quote]

You're really pushing that whole "Legion of Brown" thing a bit too hard. It's not sticking, man. Give it up.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281313033' post='2405401']
Has everyone just accepted the fact that no one is going to help NSO? Wow, that`s quite telling.
[/quote]

I've been watching NSO beg their allies not to assist them since about 2 minutes after this war was declared. NSO is asking to be allowed to act as a shield and sacrifice themselves so this lot of jerks can't get at their real targets. It's honorable and admirable of them to ask.

[Branimir]

Well stated.

Hail the Sith o/

[Eternal Enigma]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281312949' post='2405392']
What's the matter? Upset that you're not going to get your war after all?
[/quote]
whats wrong? looking for an excuse for the absense of kahoneys?

[pezstar]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281313064' post='2405404']
We at Nordreich tend to abide by agreements to defend allies. I thought the STA felt the same way.
[/quote]

We do. We also respect our allies enough that, when they point blank ask us to not enter to defend them, we're willing to consider their point of view. I'm sorry that Nordreich doesn't think enough of her allies to care what they want.

Edited August 9, 2010 by pezstar

[Pyroman]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281312879' post='2405387']
I doubt very much that the NSO's treaties include a "request for help" clause. Thus I'm going to conclude that any treaty partner not defending the Legion of Brown is led by lying cowards.
[/quote]

I mean, calling either side of this "cowards" would be less reasonable to the side that is fighting off 5 other alliances on their own. But then, I wouldn't want you to think your opinion mattered to someone.

[Akatsiya]

Spare me the self-righteous drivel. Don't protect rogues.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1281313076' post='2405406']
The two scenarios are different, dont try and compare. SF and co target NPO in this and you know it... RoK looked for any excuse to start a war and attempt to bring in NSO's allies. I dont see how our moral obligations are of any concern to you anyway.
[/quote]

They're different? No, they really aren't. And SF and co target NPO in this and we know it? Evidence? Logs? Such a bold statement latent with unbearable logic. The fact is that this isn't "any excuse"; NSO aided the rogue [b]after[/b] being warned that if they did so there would be consequences. Sorry if you bunch can't just parade around doing whatever you please.

And moral obligations? Perhaps I misused the meaning. Maybe the "Mutual Defense Pact" part of MDP/MDoAP is something I should be talking about, then. I didn't realize that in such treaties a request had to be made to come to one's aid. I thought that was an ODP, but apparently I have been duped and wronged here.

I don't give two craps if NSO's allies don't join as I am not even at war here; just making the point that, in this case, the MDP/MDoAP/MADP clauses in their treaties are being rendered "optional". Play with this as you may, it matters not.

[Aurion]

I admit, I continually am impressed by people's ability to refuse to see the obvious.

"No, we [i]weren't[/i] retarded, you're trying to set our allies up!"

Tbh I figured you had to be trying to set [i]us[/i] up, because people just don't usually act that dumb for no reason.

[Eternal Enigma]

well, looks like NSO wants to go down the " we're going to become martyrs!" route

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Eternal Enigma' timestamp='1281312770' post='2405367']
who needs to get rid of you when you'll be too weak to even be even remotely slightly relevant to the rest of the cn world after the tanks have finished rolling
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]We were rolled last time. We bounced back. Like I said, you're not getting rid of us and we're here to stay. Again, sorry to disappoint.[/color]

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='NewPoseidon' timestamp='1281312221' post='2405306']
So you're gonna sacrifice a million NS of old members for the sake of one new member? Okely dokly doo!
[/quote]

Thats what alliances do. They protect their members. The age of the member really doesn't have any relevance.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1281313076' post='2405406']SF and co target NPO in this and you know it... [/quote]

Since I was made aware of all of this by our allies yesterday, I can assure you that this is not an effort to 'target' the NPO. If Pacifica decides to follow the NSO's advice and don a chicken suit, that's entirely up to them.

And, as expected:

[quote]2. The New Sith Order and The New Pacific Order will defend one another in the event of war. This obligation shall be considered annulled in the event that that war was a result of another treaty obligation. Note that although the obligation is annulled, both sides still maintain the right to defend one another in this situation.[/quote]

The treaty doesn't actually give the NPO an 'out' here. I'm not going to bother reading the NSO's other treaties, but I expect the same applies to those as well.

[der_ko]

[quote name='Mr Rosenberger' timestamp='1281312196' post='2405304']
I do not know you guys, however what I just read was very moving and throwing yourself out there to protect your members....that is well honorable. I'm going to have to give a o/ for NSO.
[/quote]
If your idea of protection is diving into peace mode en masse and lanuching no wars against the attackers, then yes, NSO is certainly protecting their new rogue member.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1281313334' post='2405438']
They're different? No, they really aren't. And SF and co target NPO in this and we know it? Evidence? Logs? Such a bold statement latent with unbearable logic. The fact is that this isn't "any excuse"; NSO aided the rogue [b]after[/b] being warned that if they did so there would be consequences. Sorry if you bunch can't just parade around doing whatever you please.
[/quote]

And we were more than willing to release him, once you provided more information. The strong-arm diplomacy you deployed reeks of war-mongering. You're welcome. Quit whining that you got what you wanted.

[Crymson]

Apparently the SF alliances feel very poorly about their own military capabilities, given that they felt the participation of much of the bloc and some of its allies was necessary in order to take on NSO. Interesting!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Crymson

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281313188' post='2405420']
I've been watching NSO beg their allies not to assist them since about 2 minutes after this war was declared. NSO is asking to be allowed to act as a shield and sacrifice themselves so this lot of jerks can't get at their real targets. It's honorable and admirable of them to ask.
[/quote]

Or perhaps they dont want their allies to pay for the silly mistake they just made.

[Hakim]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1281312448' post='2405334']
VE has, on our membership application, this question:



To say yes does not deny them membership, it just means we will have to gauge their admission based on more factors than what we normally do, and potentially engage in diplomatic measures to clear up any problems they had. It prevents problems like this.

[/quote]


So we are all supposed to use VE admission rules now?

Power corrupts....

[Heft]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281313402' post='2405445']
[color="#0000FF"]We were rolled last time. We bounced back. Like I said, you're not getting rid of us and we're here to stay. Again, sorry to disappoint.[/color]
[/quote]
It's not like our material strength has ever had much correlation with our influence anyway.

We will rise up stronger than you can possibly imagine, etcetc.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Eternal Enigma' timestamp='1281313396' post='2405444']
well, looks like NSO wants to go down the " we're going to become martyrs!" route
[/quote]

What you're doing. You're bad at it.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281313188' post='2405420']
I've been watching NSO beg their allies not to assist them since about 2 minutes after this war was declared. NSO is asking to be allowed to act as a shield and sacrifice themselves so this lot of jerks can't get at their real targets. It's honorable and admirable of them to ask.
[/quote]
Pez, I don't [i]really[/i] expect you or anyone else who has made up their minds on the issue to believe me, but I like you so I feel compelled to tell you that NSO is the real target. I personally think the CB is solid, but if you have issues with it, I can respect that. It is, however, the reason their is currently a war going on. It's not to strike at anyone else, and if NSO isn't calling in help, that is actually a positive for me, personally, because I like several of the alliances who likely would have chained in and wasn't looking forward to finding them opposite me again should the war expand.

[Kevlar]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1281313334' post='2405438']
I don't give two craps if NSO's allies don't join as I am not even at war here; just making the point that, in this case, the MDP/MDoAP/MADP clauses in their treaties are being rendered "optional". Play with this as you may, it matters not.
[/quote]
I think the point is no one gives two craps about your interpretation of other people's treaties That's for them to squabble over

-Kev

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281313125' post='2405412']
[color="#0000FF"]We'll be making some house calls in five days.[/color]
[/quote]

But I thought peace was a lie?