Ragnarok Declaration of War

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281321146' post='2406065']
Oh, so the CB was the NSO entering into PM? Thank you for enlightening us!

[NATO, your DoW is at update.]

Of course they wanted war, the NSO was aiding and supporting a nation attacking their protectorate. They were stonewalled by the NSO.
[/quote]

please stay up for reset to see if that is true please.

[D34th]

After 21 pages all I see from NSO and allies is: "I knew Hoo was wanting war, that was a trap!"

If you knew it why the hell you aided a nation? You could have created a thread here in this OWF forums about how Hoo is evil and how he wanted to avoid diplomacy and start a curbstomp then after +50 pages of complains from both sides he would be forced to try diplomacy and give tons of bad PR for ROK and all that NSO would lose is some infra of a small nation who would be re-build with the same 6m that you send to start this war.

Next time be smart, use the problem as a opportunity not as a tool to dig your own grave.

Edited August 9, 2010 by D34th

[Stormsend]

I...

Well...

...Ok, I got nothing. Oh, and hi, Van Hoo.

[Banksy]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281321577' post='2406084']
As I said before, RoK and friends thought that NSO was just a big button they had to press to make NPO get another curbie. But the concept of 'Defense' is so much more than blindly rushing into an obvious trap. NSO is smart enough to realize this, and called RoK's ploy. Watching people like you helplessly trying to goad NPO and friends into war is just delicious. This ploy has failed just like the Red Raiding Safari did. The only question is, why not just attack NPO directly for no reason, SuperGrievances probably have the political capital to get away with it. Though I might want to bite my tongue on that, too many more failed attempts and it's likely to become a reality.
[/quote]
It's almost like you actually believe C&G and SF leaders sit in some 'lair' plotting how they will roll the NPO. The Red Safari, while boarish on behalf of the raiders, was initiated by the NPO/ Here, the NSO was given ample oppurtunity to srt this our diplomatically, but instead decided to play the matyr card. C&G and SF don't really give a flaming $%&@ about the NPO. This is the NSO's mistake and, predictably, the NPO is staying out of this conflict. Anyone could see this wasn't going to lead to another GW or a NPO curbstomp. The NPO doesn't want to fight again.

[Kochers]

[quote name='TheThirdMark' timestamp='1281312818' post='2405378']
Well its clear NSO wanted this war by on purpose letting this small problem escalate.
Starting to whine about Alliance size is a real dumb thing since the smaller Alliance spit in the bigger Alliances face and ''expected'' a continuation of communication.

NSO was offered a very easy way out where each and everyone could continue their normal way of life but instead choose to go to war over a rogue.

Most Brilliant move this year so far.
[/quote]
So, from this post I learned that either A) You can't read or B) You've been drinking a bit too much of the Kool-aid.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1281313489' post='2405453']
Sending aid to a rogue nation somebody at war with is a blatant bait.

Doing so after you've been warned about it is downright stupid.

NSO wanted to provoke an incident. They got one, hope they like it.
[/quote]
And attacking their member before all of this wasn't a bait by RoK at all...

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1281313711' post='2405488']
RoK: Don't aid the rogue, that'll be an act of war
NSO: *aids*
RoK: That's an act of war! War!
NSO: What? What did we do wrong?

Really? You waited for Hoo to tell you not to aid the rogue and then did it anyway? That's about as blatant a provocation as you can get. Yes, of course $6m is pretty irrelevant, but it's a matter of principle, and you don't get to do something so deliberately inflammatory and then get to play the 'Who? Me?' card when you get attacked for it.
[/quote]
I still you Bob, but I'm afraid we're on opposite sides this time.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281314377' post='2405549']
If someone comes to you and says "This guys is a rogue, don't aid him" and your first response is to send him aid....*sigh*....never mind.
[/quote]
Yeah, because that's [i]exactly[/i] what happened...

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1281314885' post='2405590']
My definition of cowardice is not honouring a treaty. What is yours?
[/quote]
As someone earlier said, your definition is sorely lacking.

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281316316' post='2405717']
Apparently your alliance decided to take action without you, by aiding the known rogue, [b]without waiting for evidence from RoK[/b] or by their own research. If your alliance was wanting to come to a true resolution of the issue, they would have held off on aiding the nation in question. Especially, since you were gone.

However, since they did take the course of action that they did, they decided a fine course of action for both their alliance and yours which happened to give them just CB.
[/quote]
NSO asked for evidence. RoK DoW'd on the NSO member. NSO aids [u]their own member[/u]. RoK declares war.

Does that help you understand?

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281317825' post='2405808']
Taking pretty much the last PR hit you can, eh, NPO? Now you'll also be known as an alliance who threw a friend to the wolves because the wolves were just too strong. This is excellent.
[/quote]
uh huh....[i]right[/i]....

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1281318368' post='2405853']
NSO wanted to start something - aiding the person in question is pretty contrary to conducting good diplomacy in this situation.
[/quote]
As is DoW'ing on a member of a sovereign alliance.

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281320603' post='2406028']
And once again, everyone who ever ran from a war said the exact same thing. NSO did what they had to do -- request you not to join. It's like saying "no really, you don't have to do that for me" to a buddy as your teeth fly everywhere. Your buddy shouldn't just say "oh ok" and walk away. Especially when he has a written document saying that if this happened he'd have your back. Is that really hard to understand?
[/quote]
As someone said earlier, you really want another global war, dontcha.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281321146' post='2406065']
Oh, so the CB was the NSO entering into PM? Thank you for enlightening us!

[NATO, your DoW is at update.]

Of course they wanted war, the NSO [s]was aiding and supporting a nation attacking their protectorate[/s] is allied to the NPO. They [s]were[/s] stonewalled [s]by[/s] the NSO.
[/quote]Fixed. You weren't terribly off. Just a few words out of place.

NSO was offering the branch of peace and diplomacy the whole time. A tiny drop of 6 million aid surely is not a situation beyond diplomatic discourse. RoK made themselves unavailable and unwilling to partake in diplomacy. They wanted this to become a war the instant the situation began. It was exactly what they were looking for.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281321924' post='2406111']
It's almost like you actually believe C&G and SF leaders sit in some 'lair' plotting how they will roll the NPO. The Red Safari, while boarish on behalf of the raiders, was initiated by the NPO/ Here, the NSO was given ample oppurtunity to srt this our diplomatically, but instead decided to play the matyr card. C&G and SF don't really give a flaming $%&@ about the NPO. This is the NSO's mistake and, predictably, the NPO is staying out of this conflict. Anyone could see this wasn't going to lead to another GW or a NPO curbstomp. [b]The NPO doesn't want to fight again[/b].
[/quote]

Declare on us and we'll tell you how much we want to fight.

[King Death II]

If you guys think that accepting a rogue nations that is at war with another alliance is ok then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with your logic. On top of the fact that he is in wars, the alliance's protectors come and tell you to make him stop and pay reps with a warning that if he is aided, that will be considered a declaration of war, you guys go ahead and aid the nation. There is a reason why there is a standard in CN not to accept nations with wars. You guys OBVIOUSLY chose to ignore that standard and aid and protect a nation in a war against an alliance. How the war started is of no consequence to this CB, even if it is not the nation's fault and that he was goaded into attacking TENE is of no consequence either. What is of consequence is the SIMPLE fact that he is in a war and you guys accepted him as a nation and blatantly ignore over 4 years of a standard in this game of not accepting nations with wars. You could have put him on probation of sorts to figure out what is the matter behind the wars and settled it that way but you chose to ignore all that and cause this war.

Please point out to me where the "flimsy" CB lays in this. Message me if you have to because it will probably get lost in this infinite thread. Thanks

[Max Cristof]

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281322199' post='2406129']
Declare on us and we'll tell you how much we want to fight.
[/quote]

Accept someone who goes rogue on us and we'll see what happens.

[Banksy]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281322112' post='2406124']
Fixed. You weren't terribly off. Just a few words out of place.

NSO was offering the branch of peace and diplomacy the whole time. A tiny drop of 6 million aid surely is not a situation beyond diplomatic discourse. RoK made themselves unavailable and unwilling to partake in diplomacy. They wanted this to become a war the instant the situation began. It was exactly what they were looking for.
[/quote]
Cute.

Rok clearly told the NSO not to aid the nation. So what did the NSO do? They aided the nation, a de facto support of the war. The NSO aren't naive, they knew what the situation was. Hell, heft's old alliance DoWed the GPA for aiding a GOONS member iirc.

[Caliph]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281321577' post='2406084']
As I said before, RoK and friends thought that NSO was just a big button they had to press to make NPO get another curbie. But the concept of 'Defense' is so much more than blindly rushing into an obvious trap. NSO is smart enough to realize this, and called RoK's ploy. Watching people like you helplessly trying to goad NPO and friends into war is just delicious. This ploy has failed just like the Red Raiding Safari did. The only question is, why not just attack NPO directly for no reason, SuperGrievances probably have the political capital to get away with it. Though I might want to bite my tongue on that, too many more failed attempts and it's likely to become a reality.
[/quote]
Are you folks still on odds about the Red Raid Safari? That was not a trap for the NPO, and neither is this.
Everything isn't about the NPO, nor is everything some huge conspiracy trap to draw in NPO or IRON or any of the other alliances you conspiracy theorists like to spout off at the mouth about.

This war is about NSO aiding someone who went rogue on a Ragnarok protectorate, and about NSO aiding Sedrick after knowing that Ragnarok would view it as an act of war.

Did this war have to happen? No, but NSO could have not aided Sedrick and we would not be in this situation right now.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281322112' post='2406124']
Fixed. You weren't terribly off. Just a few words out of place.

NSO was offering the branch of peace and diplomacy the whole time. A tiny drop of 6 million aid surely is not a situation beyond diplomatic discourse. RoK made themselves unavailable and unwilling to partake in diplomacy. They wanted this to become a war the instant the situation began. It was exactly what they were looking for.
[/quote]

I don't see what's so difficult to understand.

RoK: Do not aid this guy. He is a rogue. Helping him is an act of war.
NSO: *aid*
RoK and friends: *War*
NSO and friends: Bawwww.

[Banksy]

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281322199' post='2406129']
Declare on us and we'll tell you how much we want to fight.
[/quote]
Oh, but then you wouldn't have the choice! Attack SF for DoWing your MDoAP partner, then i'll happily take my words back.

[Deezznutts]

[font="Arial Black"]You guys are just a bunch of cowards who are attacking the smaller NSO nations! I have 774 infra like my nation is a threat to you tools. I love how everybody is commenting like rok is doing something noble or right hahaha this is a joke![/font]

[Wes Walz Pants]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281320237' post='2406005']
Not mad at all. I prefer this to you fighting, actually. It means NPO hits yet another low. I'm happy you proved to the world yet again what a terrible alliance and ally you are.
[/quote]
How long till you ghost an ally to fight in this war Penkala?

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281322199' post='2406129']
Declare on us and we'll tell you how much we want to fight.
[/quote]
NPO might fight but we know you won't silentkiller. Sup hippy?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Kochers' timestamp='1281322072' post='2406121']
As is DoW'ing on a member of a sovereign alliance.
[/quote]
So both sides disregarded good diplomacy. That just makes the NSO dumb for calling Rok's bluff when they weren't bluffing.

[the masheen]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281321924' post='2406111']
It's almost like you actually believe C&G and SF leaders sit in some 'lair' plotting how they will roll the NPO. The Red Safari, while boarish on behalf of the raiders, was initiated by the NPO/ Here, the NSO was given ample oppurtunity to srt this our diplomatically, but instead decided to play the matyr card. C&G and SF don't really give a flaming $%&@ about the NPO. This is the NSO's mistake and, predictably, the NPO is staying out of this conflict. Anyone could see this wasn't going to lead to another GW or a NPO curbstomp. The NPO doesn't want to fight again.
[/quote]

Whoa whoa whoa! Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that planet bob does not revolve around NPO and that every single move made by an alliance ever was not somehow influenced or trying to influence the NPO? Roll this man!

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281322473' post='2406152']
Oh, but then you wouldn't have the choice! Attack SF for DoWing your MDoAP partner, then i'll happily take my words back.
[/quote]

I'd rather respect the wishes of my ally tbf. But hey you know where we are come get us if you want a war so bad.


[quote]NPO might fight but we know you won't silentkiller. Sup hippy?[/quote]

Correct I am in hippy right now. All this war messes with my head.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Deezznutts' timestamp='1281322668' post='2406164']
[font="Arial Black"]You guys are just a bunch of cowards who are attacking the smaller NSO nations! I have 774 infra like my nation is a threat to you tools. I love how everybody is commenting like rok is doing something noble or right hahaha this is a joke![/font]
[/quote]
Damn you RoK, stop winning! RoK are at perfect liberty to protect their protectorates from attack. If you attack them, and your alliance condones/supports the attack, then I would expect RoK to act in a similar manner.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281322473' post='2406152']
Oh, but then you wouldn't have the choice! Attack SF for DoWing your MDoAP partner, then i'll happily take my words back.
[/quote]Oh come now, don't claim this is about a trivial NSO issue and then so blatantly try to goad the NPO into war.

You lot make me laugh. That's all this thread is. Goading NPO and denials of goading NPO. Really? It must sting to not get the prize you were after. Something about the flavor of tears.

[Banksy]

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281322973' post='2406184']
I'd rather respect the wishes of my ally tbf. But hey you know where we are come get us if [b]you[/b] want a war so bad.[/quote]
I'm not claiming [i]we[/i] want war, I simply said that is was clear [i]you[/i] were not seeking it.

[quote]Declare on us and we'll tell you how much we want to fight.[/quote]
:mudkips:

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281323014' post='2406187']
Damn you RoK, stop winning! RoK are at perfect liberty to protect their protectorates from attack. If you attack them, and your alliance condones/supports the attack, then I would expect RoK to act in a similar manner.
[/quote]
RoK's not at liberty to win unless they are doing something morally reprehensible, amirite?


Right?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281323119' post='2406194']
Oh come now, don't claim this is about a trivial NSO issue and then so blatantly try to goad the NPO into war.

You lot make me laugh. That's all this thread is. Goading NPO and denials of goading NPO. Really? It must sting to not get the prize you were after. Something about the flavor of tears.
[/quote]
Truly this is the NPO's greatest victory.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281323195' post='2406200']
I'm not claiming [i]we[/i] want war, I simply said that is was clear [i]you[/i] were not seeking it. [/quote]




A year of reps and war will unfortunately do that. Now we are steering too much offtopic. How about we discuss the validity of Rok's CB?

Edited August 9, 2010 by silentkiller

[Bob Sanders]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281321834' post='2406103']
After 21 pages all I see from NSO and allies is: "I knew Hoo was wanting war, that was a trap!"
[/quote]
Huh? I think that NSO was stupid and didn't come close to seeing the trap. I haven't seen a single person say they knew it was a trap before it happened.