Ragnarok Declaration of War

[Xerxer]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281318469' post='2405865']
"We're not going to tell you why, but if you aid your member, it's an act of war on RoK."

Makes perfect sense. Who needs sovereignty anyway.

Hoo, your ego is so massive, it boggles the mind. Or is that just the cult following you around, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it's both. But believe it or not, not everyone here is just going to "take your word for it." Again, thanks for being the judge, jury, and executioner for members of other alliances. But no thanks. If you don't want him to get aided, provide reasons why he shouldn't be.
[/quote]

We're talking about Ragnarok and NSO, and you're talking about a personality cult in [i]Ragnarok[/i]? There's a reason NSO climbed in members and NS so quickly, and I'll give you a hint: it had nothing to do with nation building programs, and everything to do with an Idol of Planet Bob.

You've been MIA for a while HoT, but it hasn't been [b]that[/b] long has it?

[quote]"We're not going to tell you why, but if you aid your member, it's an act of war on RoK."[/quote]

Let's start with the fact that said nation was at war with TENE and RoK. Then let's add NSO's 'membership policy' to the mix. They accept members that are currently on other alliances' ZI list all the damn time. In this case, they took it a step too far.

We say: "Hey, we're at war with him, send him cash, and we have to act accordingly, don't send him any aid." They look us in the eye, and dispatch two nations to send him 3 mil each.

We called their bluff. Now they can either back it up, or roll over. Their choice.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Xerxer

[Heft]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281318774' post='2405890']
We would not be at war had you simply not aided the rogue. I said we'd consider it an act of war not after, not during, but [b]before[/b] you did it. You did it to prove a point and try and stick it to us, I suppose? ... I guess assuming we'd do nothing about it.
[/quote]
As stated plenty of times, I assumed you would handle it in a reasonable fashion and pursue a proper resolution. As also stated plenty of times, it was dumb of me to do.

That you actually had what appeared to be a productive conversation with RV after I left, which you conveniently didn't share, seemed to support that.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281318903' post='2405903']
I know what you're trying to do, and you're really bad at it. Let me explain:

We are Ragnarok.

They are CSN.

Had we been in that situation (and this situation as well), then you'd be on to something. We weren't, so you're not.
[/quote]

You, Ragnarok, flexed your muscle when was was threatened. I'd that made you involved.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281318263' post='2405847']
Because the NSO knew that aiding a known rogue was an act of war? The amount sent and the size of the nation matter not.
[/quote]Wrong, because evidence and reasons were not communicated. Hoo just told them "Don't aid your member or we will war you." Why should NSO leave their internal affairs to an external leader? If I went up to RoK and told them that if they aided some dude in their ranks it would be an act of war, with no good reason for the demand, I'd fully expect RoK to dump as much aid as they could on the guy.

Hoo is not the god of the cyberverse, as much as some people seem to believe. We don't have to take his word as infallible, and he better submit evidence when he makes a demand like this.

[Penkala]

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281318404' post='2405857']
Making a fool out of yourself yet again Penkala?

Hint: NSO requested we stay out. Although I wouldn't expect a person of your intelligence to understand the difference.
[/quote]

Hint: That's a terrible excuse. That's NSO being a good ally, trying to help you.

Everyone who's ever run away from a war has used that excuse. Go run away, you cowards.

[Seerow]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281318891' post='2405901']
For there to be a failed negotiation there would have to be an attempt at negotiation. RoK dodged all such attempts, preferring instead to rush into an unnecessary war.
[/quote]

Nonsense, read the logs. There were offers to make peace if reps were offered, and NSO were made aware that any aid sent to the rogue before the matter was settled would be an act of war. The fact that they ignored this and went onward fully realizing the ramifications of their actions indicates they are the ones who were eager for a war, RoK was sticking to their word. How often have we seen an alliance ridiculed for making an assertion then failing to back it up? RoK is doing the right thing here, and had NSO simply not sent aid, this wouldn't have happened. They also could have, as I mentioned, simply lied about the aid, saying it was sent by an unwitting member after a request was made via IRC or the like, and that it would be handled. The fact that NSO chose to act in a way that they had been informed ahead of time would be met with war indicates a failure in negotiation, and that they either thought RoK was bluffing, or they genuinely wanted the war. Either way NSO is getting deliberately what they asked for.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281319111' post='2405918']
You, Ragnarok, flexed your muscle when was was threatened. I'd that made you involved.
[/quote]


Repeat this in english, please. I cannot bat another ridiculous response down again until you do.

[Penkala]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281318469' post='2405865']
"We're not going to tell you why, but if you aid your member, it's an act of war on RoK."

Makes perfect sense. Who needs sovereignty anyway.

Hoo, your ego is so massive, it boggles the mind. Or is that just the cult following you around, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it's both. But believe it or not, not everyone here is just going to "take your word for it." Again, thanks for being the judge, jury, and executioner for members of other alliances. But no thanks. If you don't want him to get aided, provide reasons why he shouldn't be.
[/quote]

You know it's bad when you're denying facts even NSO has acknowledged. Hoo told them why they shouldn't aid the guy.

[quote]not everyone here is just going to "take your word for it." [/quote]

Hey dude, I'm going to bold this since you ignored it the other 4 times it was said: [b]There were war declarations still on the guy's war screen. It was pretty damn easy to see that Hoo was telling the truth.[/b]

Edited August 9, 2010 by Penkala

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Xerxer' timestamp='1281319008' post='2405910']
Let's start with the fact that said nation was at war with TENE and RoK. Then let's add NSO's 'membership policy' to the mix. They accept members that are currently on other alliances' ZI list all the damn time. In this case, they took it a step too far.

We say: "Hey, we're at war with him, send him cash, and we have to act accordingly, don't send him any aid." They look us in the eye, and dispatch two nations to send him 3 mil each.

We called their bluff. Now they can either back it up, or roll over. Their choice.
[/quote]

You're totally missing the part where we say we will protect our member unless you provide further proof. You know, a lot like how you said don't send aid? Yea. Kind of like that.

[Necromancer V4L]

If you guys want to DoW NPO, why are you even bothering to try and find a (semi)valid CB? You've got the balls and firepower to do it, so stop screwing around and make it happen already.

[Qazzian]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281319316' post='2405929']
Repeat this in english, please. I cannot bat another ridiculous response down again until you do.
[/quote]

Ha, touche

"You, Ragnarok, flexed your muscle when war was threatened. I'd say that made you involved."

[Choson]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1281319387' post='2405934']
You're totally missing the part where we say we will protect our member unless you provide further proof. You know, a lot like how you said don't send aid? Yea. Kind of like that.
[/quote]

I guess the two offensive wars that your member was in didn't count as proof, huh?

[Seerow]

[quote name='Necromancer V4L' timestamp='1281319428' post='2405936']
If you guys want to DoW NPO, why are you even bothering to try and find a (semi)valid CB? You've got the balls and firepower to do it, so stop screwing around and make it happen already.
[/quote]

I'm curious, what does NPO have to do with this?

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1281319459' post='2405938']
Ha, touche

"You, Ragnarok, flexed your muscle when war was threatened. I'd say that made you involved."
[/quote]


With the CSN situation? We weren't even involved.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281319221' post='2405924']
Hint: That's a terrible excuse. That's NSO being a good ally, trying to help you.

Everyone who's ever run away from a war has used that excuse. Go run away, you cowards.
[/quote]

u mad?

You are always welcome to Dow us if you are so desperate for some war though. Not to mention that NPO isn't the topic of this discussion so how about we keep this on topic?

Edited August 9, 2010 by silentkiller

[Feanor Noldorin]

Another curb-stomp? How [i]exciting[/i].

Edited August 9, 2010 by Feanor Noldorin

[Necromancer V4L]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1281319489' post='2405944']
I'm curious, what does NPO have to do with this?
[/quote]

You tell me, that's all everyone is talking about. Decided I'd go with the flow and ask the obvious question.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1281319489' post='2405944']
I'm curious, what does NPO have to do with this?
[/quote]


Well, they brought them up as the "real" target and then proceeded to lament about how this always turns into a conversation about the NPO ... even if [b]we[/b] never initially mentioned them. Heh.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1281319484' post='2405943']
I guess the two offensive wars that your member was in didn't count as proof, huh?
[/quote]

The member claimed they were a result of aggressive spy action and was in the peace process. RoK claimed this fella was a rogue prior to that. Thus, the proof we were asking for.

[Seerow]

[quote name='Necromancer V4L' timestamp='1281319656' post='2405956']
You tell me, that's all everyone is talking about. Decided I'd go with the flow and ask the obvious question.
[/quote]

Hrm maybe I should read more than the first few pages and the last page.

[Seerow]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281319704' post='2405961']
Well, they brought them up as the "real" target and then proceeded to lament about how this always turns into a conversation about the NPO ... even if [b]we[/b] never initially mentioned them. Heh.
[/quote]

Ah thanks for summarizing for me. Saves me the trouble of reading those middle 14 or so pages.

[Foose Babganoosh]

This should raise the GRL up

[iamthey]

Heh, alright Rok. Nothing that even a lopsided war with NSO is going to cause a thousand times more damage than the six million in aid ever would, and noting that in attacking the rogue your nations probably would have profited from the NSO aid. This has to be one of the most ridiculous spectacles I have ever seen.

[Choson]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1281319705' post='2405962']
The member claimed they were a result of aggressive spy action and was in the peace process. RoK claimed this fella was a rogue prior to that. Thus, the proof we were asking for.
[/quote]

I see no definitive proof that they were a result of aggressive spy action, nor do I see any evidence of the member going through the peace process. I only see your empty words. However, I can see proof that this member nation was in two offensive wars and that you aided them.

[shaneprice]

This is sad, but the fact that so many declared upon so few indicates that they are springing a trap to bring NPO and IRON in again. When you try to set traps you should be a bit less obvious.