There are too many alliances and some of you should disband.

[Sognatore]

PhR will be sticking around. Anyone is welcome to discuss merging into us though

[Sabertooth]

You do have a valid point that there are too many alliances in this game. Unfortunately nothing will change. More and more alliances will continue to create. Alliances spread like the plague.

[Dochartaigh]

This almost makes me want to go out there and create a new alliance.

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1280435182' post='2394305']
It's not an assumption, it's an opinion. As much as I would love to debate with you about what each of the 24k members of Cybernations find fun, I don't think it's logically appropriate.

The point of the matter is that we hold the believe that the game itself isn't very fun without war, drama, intrigue or story. If people want to be bloated hippies and sit around and build their nations, fine. Just know that you don't really contribute much to our community.
[/quote]

How do you know that everyone finds war, drama...etc interesting? It is an unreasonable assumption. As I said before, only a small fraction of the CN population is active on the OWF. This does not support your assumption. I would bet that the "community" that appreciates such things consists of a minority of the nations on CN.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1280437094' post='2394344']
The problem isn't the treaty web (even if it's an obstacle, for obvious reasons) or the number of alliances. The problem is the lack of ambition displayed by virtually all of the "big" (top 75?) alliances. I'd say that, in fact, you are more likely to find an ounce of ambition in the smaller alliances, if only because their leaders usually want their alliance to grow and themselves to be recognized.

In major and well established alliances, the number of leaders who are content to simply sit by and [i]avoid problems[/i] is incredibly high. They're more than happy to simply sit by and let others do the leading, take decisions for them and just be on friendly terms with whatever people they call their allies.

From the time of the Pax Pacifica, a few alliances in the WUT and then Q-1V sphere competed for power: FAN, GOONS, TOP and NpO are examples of that. We wanted to do our own things, our own way and we had other ambitions, even if most of the sphere(s) (depending on the time) was content to sit back and let NPO lead.

Nowadays, I don't really see any competing ambition in the SG super-structure or really outside. A vast lot of alliances are simply names with members, with leaders trying to play this game as if it's a popularity contest.

Boredom will end up spawning another war in the next months no matter what, though, so all is well I guess.

I agree with most of the list nevertheless.
[/quote]
The issue is really that people want drama in OOC forums, but the second any drama occurs in IC, it ends in !@#$%*ing and claims of 'aggression' and the culprits being 'immoral.' A lot of established alliances simply can't be bothered with the fuss.

I agree that micro alliances tend to have a lot of ambition, but those alliances have less to lose, so to speak, NS wise and historically than larger alliances. The leaders of these micros also tend to be fuelled by ego. Most micros are founded by ex-gov members from larger alliances. They want recognition, and they often want power. Hence the appeal of a smaller alliance. In the past there was less competition for government spots in the larger alliances, there wasn't competition for positions/power to the extent that there, perhaps, is today. People make their own alliances so they can guarantee their 'time in the limelight.' When the game was newer it was probably (relatively) easier for government members to gain their places, to stoke their egos, and so there wasn't the *need* to create a micro alliance.

Any IC ambition in the game will probably come from people outside of C&G and SF. Those alliances don't have the same level of motivation to excel (politically) as they are already on top and dominant. They don't have an interest in creating drama or upsetting the power balance. OOC ambition is here, it just isn't visible unless you really know the people or alliances who have it, it's quite a subjective measure.

I suppose I agree with this list in principle, I don't understand why a lot of alliances exist. But the issue isn't really the alliances, it's the mindset we are in. Back-in-the-day there were a large number of treaty options available for alliances. Today it's the ODPIAT, the protectorate and the non-chaining MDP. There is also no self-imposed barrier on the number of treaties or blocs an alliance can/should enter either. Look at the OP's alliance. The NSO is in two MDP blocs with a ton of outside treaties. As Sparta has been brought up throughout this thread (oh Olaf), they are an alliance with links to both sides of the so-called SG with strong connections and MDPs, paralysing the web. In 2006, would either alliance have had more than two or three military treaties?

We've almost reached the 'top' of the scale. We've done blocs, MADPs, colour sphere arrangements, alliances dedicated to the infiltration of others, guerrilla warfare etc etc. There hasn't been a whole lot of progression in any form since 2008. Unless a significant change to the gameplay or the political system (such as some sort of 'new' treaty, a new political movement, i dunno) then there isn't any way to progress in the way in which I think a lot of people want to take us.

A bit of uncertainty would be nice. I know some people call for a reset, but that isn't the answer as we will quickly pick up where we left off, the same alliances will dominate. Political upheaval or a few major change in mechanics would probably help.

[xenon]

Oh, sorry. I didn't see your account on our boards, were you that person spying on our sekretz?

Edited July 29, 2010 by xenon

[Divi Filius]

I'm not sure why you did, but thanks for not disbanding us.


Also, congratulations on an awesome topic.

[Burnsey]

We appreciate the input but,no, we don't really give a damn what you think.

[Cairna]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1280374583' post='2393474']
For what it's worth, more than a few of us completely agree with the boring part but don't know how to change without acting OOC. I've suggested RPing some kind of event that turns us into an alliance full of zombies/vampires/monsters etc., but I don't think it's going to happen.

Maybe you could build on this thread to suggest specific merger partners for some of the boring alliances? The potential in-game benefit isn't worth ripping a multi-year community apart, but mergers at least let everyone stay together and just get some new friends. If you played match-maker it might take some of the initial awkwardness away from proposing the idea? It'd be like "Hey, ally, can you believe Corinan's thread where he thought we should merge? That's so crazy. Ha.... But. You ever think...maybe he's on to something? "
[/quote]
Hey good looking. I'm boring, you're boring, wanna tie that knot?

[lmcfalcon12]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1280440009' post='2394403']
This almost makes me want to go out there and create a new alliance.
[/quote]

Heh heh. I've had my hand in creating one or so. If it would piss off the haters even more, I'd go form another one.

...and another...

...and another...

...because this thread is a joke. You're entitled to your opinion, but part of the freedom of this game is creating your own alliance if you so choose and playing the game as you will.

:rejected:

[Zoomzoomzoom]

I've got a list of alliances that would prove far more successful if merged.

NATO, UBD, TFD, MCXA, GDA, GUN - Let's face it, you're all allied in some way or another and TFD's officials seem competent enough to handle such a large influx of nations. The rest of you must have something to contribute as well. We might want to throw RDD in here too. I don't quite know who they are close with.

LoSS - you had your fun. I'd compare your success in this game to that of CON. They were smart and merged with IRON. It's your time to do the same. GATO or IAA would suffice since I believe those two are worthy enough to stay independent.

MA and TTK. You'd think I'd be saying to merge into one another, but I don't even think that's a good enough fix. I think a mixed merger between GOD and CSN would be a good choice.

Carpe Diem - merge with someone. I don't care who. Pick NSO or Silence.

CCC - You always seem to have your head up NpO's $@!. You might as well make it a permanent residence.

GOP, TDO, GPA - Like Corinan said. Just all merge into GPA. You'd be huge to ensure your defense and you'd just find more friends all bunched up together. What's there to lose? You guys going to fight over who gets the Minister of Defense position?

Alpha Omega - Join Sparta and help them out.

NpO micro alliance MDP partners (TKTB, UINE, FAR, Avalanche) - Join NpO thanks.

The Resistance - Join ODN.

GLOF and 1TF - Merge with NV.

TOOL, FEAR, TPF - Merge into one AA.

Various black alliances - This would include Nemesis, Dark Fist, MFO, Azn, Asgaard, HOL, ubercon, agw overlords, etc etc etc etc etc. Merge a few of yourselves into one another or other larger alliances.

GRE - give it up and join fark or mha

FCC and OG - give it up. Whatever remaining active nations fcc has would fit in well over at umbrella.

\m/ - Join PC

Probably plenty more. Just some of opinions. Would they work? idc

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Lord of the Port' timestamp='1280436525' post='2394327']
Sons of Lacedaemon, hear my words!
Your King deceives you, for he is not a son of Zeus, Father of Gods and men, but he is a son of Typhon, and of Eris, a deceiver!
Your king is not a king of honor, but a king of betrayal, and sleeps with the Persians, and rents himself to those man-girls from Athens!
Flee your homes, for Zeus will slay your king, and slay you all, if you stay in your doomed city! Run to where the blackbird flies, and follow his divine rule!
[/quote]

So how did it feel getting rolled all to hell and back by a Son of Typhon and a bunch of man-girls from Athens?

[Unholy]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1280443453' post='2394453']
So how did it feel getting rolled all to hell and back by a Son of Typhon and a bunch of man-girls from Athens?
[/quote]

This made my day.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1280442576' post='2394437']
Hey good looking. I'm boring, you're boring, wanna tie that knot?
[/quote]
I suggested we pursue a merger with you guys about an hour ago on our boards. I'm not even kidding

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1280442946' post='2394445']
The Resistance - Join ODN.
[/quote]
Not likely seeing how relations are evidently not what they were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89300&view=findpost&p=2378417"][Link][/url]

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1280444371' post='2394472']
Not likely seeing how relations are evidently not what they were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89300&view=findpost&p=2378417"][Link][/url]
[/quote]


So I'm told.

They should just disband and scatter then.

[Uralica]

If we went by your list of TFD allies and your scenarios, Zoomeh, TFD'd also likely get a third of CCC. The remainder would split between Polaris, and if they remained intact, GR. If not, the split would be 50-50 between TFD and Polaris. It's about history.

Of course, if the situation happened with me in CCC (like I was for the first six months of my existence on Bob) I'd have a helluva time choosing between the three. I never assume that anyone will take me in just like that, anyway. I just assume that I'd have to bend over backwards to win admission to any alliance until/unless told otherwise.

Now as for TOOL, I think a few people would leave if that merger happened, either from the TOOL crowd who don't like tech-raiding (if we went with TPF's raiding policy) or the TPF crowd that do (if we went with TOOL's).

Edited July 29, 2010 by Uralica

[Believland]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1280444371' post='2394472']
Not likely seeing how relations are evidently not what they were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89300&view=findpost&p=2378417"][Link][/url]
[/quote]

Don't worry he's a tad slow. One of these days he'll get it.

[Sabertooth]

The only way this could ever happen is if only a certain number of alliances were allowed in the game. They would need to be forced to disband to make it happen.

If all the alliances mentioned were forced to disband, which alliances would people flock too?

[janax]

Asgaard, FCC, Umbrella, Ubercon, OMFG and Argent will merge and ensure that NSO is never allowed to cross the 50K NS barrier with any nations

[Corinan]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1280446362' post='2394509']
Asgaard, FCC, Umbrella, Ubercon, OMFG and Argent will merge and ensure that NSO is never allowed to cross the 50K NS barrier with any nations
[/quote]

Bet you won't do it for real.

[Believland]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1280446362' post='2394509']
Asgaard, FCC, Umbrella, Ubercon, OMFG and Argent will merge and ensure that NSO is never allowed to cross the 50K NS barrier with any nations
[/quote]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. It think they'll just merge back into NPO.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1280446977' post='2394511']
I wouldn't worry about that too much. It think they'll just merge [b]back[/b] into NPO.
[/quote]

Rather unlikely. Also, we didn't splinter off from NPO, so I'm not sure how we could merge back into it.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='kulomascovia' timestamp='1280440696' post='2394412']
How do you know that everyone finds war, drama...etc interesting? It is an unreasonable assumption. As I said before, only a small fraction of the CN population is active on the OWF. This does not support your assumption. I would bet that the "community" that appreciates such things consists of a minority of the nations on CN.
[/quote]

It may not be an undeniable fact, but it's certainly not unreasonable. It's a well justified opinion given our beliefs.

And you can't assume otherwise either. What are you going to do? PM every nation on CN and poll them about what they like best? Stop treating this like you can prove it or something. It's like I said; it's a belief. You can't shatter our beliefs.

[Fizzydog]

Asgaard has a great growth program and is keeping our nations up to date. Go away.

I agree about too many alliances tho.