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Red Raiding Safari


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[quote name='pezstar' date='20 July 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1279637097' post='2380570']
I am extremely disappointed in this. The general attitude of "We're on top, we'll do what we want" in this thread is sickening to us, an alliance who fought our butts off to get you there. This is sure as hell not what we fought for. I don't even know what to say. Shame on you all, and shame on us for thinking it would actually be different.
[/quote]

Raiding unaligned nations is worse than viceroys. Quit being a drama queen Pez.

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[quote name='pezstar' date='20 July 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1279637097' post='2380570']
I am extremely disappointed in this. The general attitude of "We're on top, we'll do what we want" in this thread is sickening to us, an alliance who fought our butts off to get you there. This is sure as hell not what we fought for. I don't even know what to say. Shame on you all, and shame on us for thinking it would actually be different.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Do I have to dig up some of my old comments from last summer? Can't say I didn't warn you.[/color]

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[quote name='Penkala' date='20 July 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1279637655' post='2380578']
Raiding unaligned nations is worse than viceroys. Quit being a drama queen Pez.
[/quote]
Trying to get people to judge your benevolence against previous, and now defunct, NPO standards is pretty silly because those standards were so low that exceeding them in itself is nothing noteworthy. It's getting boring listening to you patting your side on the back for not implementing viceroys, when you're still operating below a line of decency. Viceroys was way way way down below that line, but does that mean that everything above is fine? Obviously not. You can still be dicks without implementing viceroys.

It'd just be nicer if you set your own standards, instead of defaulting to the 'at least we're not quite as terrible as the NPO, judge us on those long-dead standards please' stance any time you get called on your crap.

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[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='20 July 2010 - 09:28 AM' timestamp='1279632509' post='2380490']
This looks a lot less like a nuisance, and much more like the systematic economic destruction of an entire sphere. I suppose the only thing that these guiltless red nations can do is leave the red sphere. When did Pingu become an apologist for what amounts to a race war?
[/quote]

Pingu didn't. 'Race war'? Seriously? I won't ask when WalkerNinja became an overwrought propagandist, since it seems second nature to him.

Raiding is disgusting. But it has never been and almost certainly will never be effectively countered by public diplomacy of this kind. Red sphere states can do what states have always had to do on an anarchic Bob - join together in alliances for mutual protection. I wish it were otherwise, but wishing changes nothing.

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[quote name='pezstar' date='20 July 2010 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1279637097' post='2380570']
I am extremely disappointed in this. The general attitude of "We're on top, we'll do what we want" in this thread is sickening to us, an alliance who fought our butts off to get you there. This is sure as hell not what we fought for. I don't even know what to say. Shame on you all, and shame on us for thinking it would actually be different.
[/quote]
This is the New World you helped create. Suck it up.

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[quote name='Corinan' date='20 July 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1279638261' post='2380598']
EVERYTHING WE DO WILL BE KEWL AS LONG AS WE DONT INSTALL VICEROYS. That about sums up the general attitude of the New Hegemony.
[/quote]

Literally the only thing different now.

Literally.

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And honestly I'm quite confident that the New Hegemony would be rolling alliances and installing viceroys had the Old Hegemony not already made it so taboo to do so. Clearly not the "freedom fighters" they once tried to pass themselves off as.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='20 July 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1279638319' post='2380601']
This is the New World you helped create. Suck it up.
[/quote]

It is still 100 times better than the world you tried to uphold.

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[quote name='AirMe' date='20 July 2010 - 03:50 PM' timestamp='1279633823' post='2380516']
I clearly remember them better than you do because we fought against other imposing their wills just because they were stronger and that is what you are doing now. The main outrage about Red was how they didn't allow other alliances on the color. I have no issues with them protecting the unaligned, in fact I applaud it.

Here is the thing, you need to drop the "Well, they imposed their will on us and now we need to get back at them" mentality. And if you guys had really thought about it, instead of giving this an actual name and just went about normal raiding practices it wouldn't be an issue. Instead you guys loosely organized a maneuver that some consider an act of war or at the very least trying to bait Pacifica into a war.
[/quote]
We're not imposing our will on the NPO. We're stopping the NPO from imposing their will on us. Huuuge difference.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='20 July 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1279638319' post='2380601']
This is the New World you helped create. Suck it up.
[/quote]


TOP was there too, if I recall correctly. And I usually do recall correctly.

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Perhaps I [i]was[/i] a bit overwrought. Forgive my Schattenman moment. But you make a statement that interests me:

[quote name='Pingu' date='20 July 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1279638222' post='2380596']
Raiding is disgusting.
[/quote]

If this is the case, what would you call individuals that escalate raiding to the level of interalliance coordination? Are they too disgusting?

Edited by WalkerNinja
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[quote name='Corinan' date='20 July 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1279638584' post='2380606']
And honestly I'm quite confident that the New Hegemony would be rolling alliances and installing viceroys had the Old Hegemony not already made it so taboo to do so. Clearly not the "freedom fighters" they once tried to pass themselves off as.
[/quote]

I'm not even going to bother arguing with someone who is so blatantly narrow minded.

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[quote name='pezstar' date='20 July 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1279638688' post='2380612']
TOP was there too, if I recall correctly. And I usually do recall correctly.
[/quote]
And TOP tried to help this one specific ally of yours in stopping this, if I recall correctly. And I know I recall correctly.

Edit:
Forgot to add another "NPO did worse, we're okay" comment.

Edited by shilo
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[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='20 July 2010 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1279638721' post='2380613']
If this is the case, what would you call individuals that escalate raiding to the level of interalliance coordination? Are they too disgusting?
[/quote]

Within the rules of discourse permitted in this venue, I suppose I must call them "misguided persons with whom I have serious ethical differences."

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[quote name='AirMe' date='20 July 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1279638659' post='2380610']
It is still 100 times better than the world you tried to uphold.
[/quote]
Actually, in your world that you helped create, with New Hegemony only being in total control now for a months now, I would say you are definitely on your merry way of reenactment. But if it helps you sleep at night.

Also, mandatory "NPO did worse, so we're okay" comment.

Edited by shilo
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