Red Raiding Safari

[Heft]

I, also, enjoy aggravating people I don't like by punching random bystanders in the face. There is clearly no better way of addressing disagreements.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='shilo' date='20 July 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1279645299' post='2380831']
But they had viceroys!
[/quote]
Is that flippancy I sense? because the whole Viceroy gig in the old era was nothing to be flippant about

[Kim Jaym Il]

[quote name='der_ko' date='20 July 2010 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1279663097' post='2381329']
No, we want to make it clear we will not allow third parties to decide our internal policies. Pissing off the NPO is just a bonus.
[/quote]

What about all the alliances who sign protectorates with smaller alliances? Why do you allow them to decide your internal policies?


[quote name='der_ko' date='20 July 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1279663801' post='2381350']
Good for you, you've figured out how CN works.
[/quote]

I seem to remember fighting for a world where just because you were the biggest didn't mean you could do whatever you wanted to others. I think your alliance was there too.


[quote name='Beefspari' date='20 July 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1279663863' post='2381354']
Or maybe because NPO just recently started to try and enforce it and has caused a lot of internal discussion between the involved groups.
[/quote]

As his post said, it was well enforced prior to Karma. Surprisingly there was no outcry from anyone about losing their right to raid red back then.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Jaymjaym' date='20 July 2010 - 06:31 PM' timestamp='1279665099' post='2381381']
What about all the alliances who sign protectorates with smaller alliances? Why do you allow them to decide your internal policies?
[/quote]

This has to be the most retarded question I've read in this thread. It's commonly accepted that a protectorate is a treaty between two alliances. A haphazard attempt to keep everybody from raiding the unaligned without their consent on any color is infringement.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Emperor Marx

[King Wally]

man you people on here crying about the red raid safari are really glass half empty type people arent you?

If you were smart you would draft a nice recruitment message and send it to all the red nones being raided reminding them that they would be safe from raiding if they simply took 5 minutes to sign up to your alliance NPO etc.

Hell you would come across as the hero's on white stallions riding in to save them from the evil outland raiders (like me!) and you would bump up your membership considerably....

...and the problem is again?

[Mathias]

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 06:07 PM' timestamp='1279663605' post='2381342']
I don't remember you trying to make clear that you don't allow third parties to decide your internal policies when NPO created this doctrine or any time before Karma war. What changed after that? Oh wait! I know the answer! You are doing it now just because you can.
[/quote]

NPO created (well, re-created) this doctrine after the Karma War. I'm fairly certain that the alliances involved were no less able to raid red when NPO was under terms and rebuilding, than they are now that NPO is out of terms and rebuilt.

[D34th]

[quote name='der_ko' date='20 July 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1279663801' post='2381350']
Good for you, you've figured out how CN works.
[/quote]

Good for you too, at least you aren't trying to give a poor excuses for your actions anymore.

[quote name='Beefspari' date='20 July 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1279663863' post='2381354']
Or maybe because NPO just recently started to try and enforce it and has caused a lot of internal discussion between the involved groups.
[/quote]

So you are saying that never NPO tried to enforce revenge doctrine before? Please, read my post again.

Edited July 20, 2010 by D34th

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 11:40 PM' timestamp='1279665628' post='2381397']
Good for you too, at least you aren't trying to give a poor excuses for your actions anymore.



So you are saying that never NPO tried to enforce revenge doctrine before? Please, read my post again.
[/quote]


I think what he was meaning to say is that NPO before had the ability to do as they please and use there might to dictate what happened on that sphere. This is not the case now. They may be trying to dictate what happens on that sphere now and it's not being tolerated? I could be wrong, I'm sure he will correct me if im wrong.

[Lennox]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' date='20 July 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1279663388' post='2381337']
That may be the reasoning you're looking for but it isn't the reasoning for our actions. I know how spiteful you are, but we don't all think and behave like you.
[/quote]


When a polar member is siding with NPO, I think its fairly obvious whats going on.

[Seerow]

[quote name='King Wally' date='20 July 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1279665474' post='2381387']
man you people on here crying about the red raid safari are really glass half empty type people arent you?

If you were smart you would draft a nice recruitment message and send it to all the red nones being raided reminding them that they would be safe from raiding if they simply took 5 minutes to sign up to your alliance NPO etc.

Hell you would come across as the hero's on white stallions riding in to save them from the evil outland raiders (like me!) and you would bump up your membership considerably....

...and the problem is again?
[/quote]


The problem is the evil tech raiders killing innocent pixels to prove a point!










But seriously, the old Revenge Doctrine never got challenged because when the NPO instituted it, they were on top of the world. There was no force who would try to challenge them over something as small as tech raiding a relatively small sphere. There were simply easier targets around. That's one of the perks of being on top, you can do things and nobody will question it.

In the year since then, the NPO has lost the power and influence that allowed them to get away with such acts. They need to realize that them saying something unilaterally does not make it so. Had they gone to tech raiding alliances individually and tried to forge a treaty with each one, to ignore the red sphere in raids, it may have been met with a better response. And had they gone this route, the NPO (and the rest of red dawn) would have been able to enjoy the stability granted by their sphere being protected from raids by a voluntary treaty.

The method they chose to take however, was to pretend like they are still on top of the world, and assume nobody would question their will, and simply told everyone else they would not raid red or face consequences. No asking, no negotiation, no discussion. They just decided they could declare that other alliances could not do something, and that the other alliances would listen.

Obviously, some people don't like that attitude when it's not coming from a group that can destroy them without any effort, and will challenge this attempted infringement upon their own sovereignty. If the unaligned red players don't like that, they are welcome to join an alliance for protection, or change color spheres.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1279665628' post='2381397']
So you are saying that never NPO tried to enforce revenge doctrine before? Please, read my post again.
[/quote]
Since the end of the war?

[D34th]

For everyone who are saying "The reason of safari isn't t piss off NPO" : it's already pretty clear by posts of your own people that is not true.

I have just one question to do:

If you start to hurt and harm innocent people just because you can and to piss off a third part, what make you better than NPO in the old days?

Note: Because we don't install viceroys and this kind of BS isn't an acceptable answer.

[quote name='Beefspari' date='20 July 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1279666068' post='2381407']
Since the end of the war?
[/quote]

That's what I said in my post?

[Seerow]

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1279666963' post='2381428']
For everyone who are saying "The reason of safari isn't t piss off NPO" : it's already pretty clear by posts of your own people that is not true.

I have just one question to do:

If you start to hurt and harm innocent people just because you can and to piss off a third part, what make you better than NPO in the old days?

Note: Because we don't install viceroys and this kind of BS isn't an acceptable answer.



That's what I said in my post?
[/quote]


I want to point out there's a difference between doing something to piss off the NPO and doing something to show NPO we're not going to put up with their King of the Hill attitude. You may not see the distinction, but it does exist.

[supercoolyellow]

Don't get me wrong, I generally support tech raiding, as it is a good way to engage members and [ooc] help them enjoy the game [/ooc]

However a certain red alliance is going to turn this into a recruiting drive, and add to their members off of this, and I find that to be ironic, when this whole move is to blatantly try to show them that they aren't in control any more, and in th eend it will likely push them closer to first.

Edited July 20, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[mrwuss]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='20 July 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1279667829' post='2381453']
Don't get me wrong, I generally support tech raiding, as it is a good way to engage members and [ooc] help them enjoy the game [/ooc]

However a certain red alliance is going to turn this into a recruiting drive, and add to their members off of this, and I find that to be ironic, when this whole move is to blatantly try to show them that they aren't in control any more, and in th eend it will likely push them closer to first.
[/quote]


Good, get the unaligned into an AA.

Having more members doesn't put them in control it simply gives them the largest zoo.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='mrwuss' date='20 July 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1279668163' post='2381462']
Good, get the unaligned into an AA.

Having more members doesn't put them in control it simply gives them the largest zoo.
[/quote]

While I don't think being big for the sake of being big is that great of an objective. There has historically been a great recruiting benefit to being #1 as some new players will just join the #1 alliance.

[o-dog]

[quote name='Seerow' date='21 July 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1279667579' post='2381443']
I want to point out there's a difference between doing something to piss off the NPO and doing something to show NPO we're not going to put up with their King of the Hill attitude.
[/quote]

You're having a laugh aren't you?!?

The people showing King of the Hill tendencies these days ain't the NPO.

[Seerow]

[quote name='O-Dog' date='20 July 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1279668299' post='2381467']
You're having a laugh aren't you?!?

The people showing King of the Hill tendencies these days ain't the NPO.
[/quote]

When an alliance decides to tell all other alliances "You can't do this" I would call that trying to act like they're the king of the hill. It's one of the things the NPO did to prove their superiority early in CN, and those raiding red are doing the right thing by preventing them from being able to recreate the persona of an untouchable force.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1279666963' post='2381428']
Note: Because we don't install viceroys and this kind of BS isn't an acceptable answer.
[/quote]

In this case I'd say that answer is pretty acceptable. It's a raid. One war cycle. They're not going to keep those nations at war for years, extort massive amounts of tech from each one, or do any other crap like that.

It's a little fun and games, toughen up.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='20 July 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1279663238' post='2381334']
You mean, after they granted you a protectorate agreement to help you bring your alliance into existence.

Nice gratitude there, big boy.
[/quote]
You're half right, the protectorate was with NPO [b]and[/b] NpO (funny story). It was really NpO who did the main part, the NPO half was canceled with the rest of their treaties post-karma. Not to mention all the good the NPO half of it did was dragging the process out a month while we waited for them to come to their conclusions. Regardless, I commend you for remembering this obscure fact about our history, even if you twisted it.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Sardonic

[o-dog]

[quote name='Seerow' date='21 July 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1279668545' post='2381476']
When an alliance decides to tell all other alliances "You can't do this" I would call that trying to act like they're the king of the hill. It's one of the things the NPO did to prove their superiority early in CN, and those raiding red are doing the right thing by preventing them from being able to recreate the persona of an untouchable force.
[/quote]

So Red Dawn is a uniquely NPO project is it? And you decided to make your stand against it now, as opposed to when it was originally launched (without NPO signatures)? And why is striving to protect your colour sphere equal to becoming an untouchable force? Were FAN or GOLD attempting to become untouchable forces?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Seerow' date='20 July 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1279667579' post='2381443']
I want to point out there's a difference between doing something to piss off the NPO and doing something to show NPO we're not going to put up with their King of the Hill attitude. You may not see the distinction, but it does exist.
[/quote]
You guys are beginning to believe your own BS. You're walking over others just the way you all accused the NPO of doing.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='20 July 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1279668568' post='2381477']
In this case I'd say that answer is pretty acceptable. It's a raid. One war cycle. They're not going to keep those nations at war for years, extort massive amounts of tech from each one, or do any other crap like that.

It's a little fun and games, toughen up.
[/quote]
The difference Damsky, these cowards will make war on nations and call it tech raids. If any large alliance were to organize a raid against them they would cry and activate treaties to no end to win. Prey on the weak is all they can do.

Hurt those that can't call for help...KARMA achieved nothing.

[magicninja]

I almost want to agree with death that beating up on innocent nations to prove a point to NPO and other red alliance is pretty $%&@ed up. If you want to piss them off raid their nations. I bet you get a good rise out of them for that.

[D34th]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='20 July 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1279668568' post='2381477']
In this case I'd say that answer is pretty acceptable. It's a raid. One war cycle. They're not going to keep those nations at war for years, extort massive amounts of tech from each one, or do any other crap like that.

It's a little fun and games, toughen up.
[/quote]

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Oh yeah, both are wrong.

[quote name='Seerow' date='20 July 2010 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1279667579' post='2381443']
I want to point out there's a difference between doing something to piss off the NPO and doing something to show NPO we're not going to put up with their King of the Hill attitude. You may not see the distinction, but it does exist.
[/quote]

I'd say that isn't NPO who is playing "King of the Hill" game.

I almost can imagine he dialogue:

NPO: Can you please not raid the unaligned red nations?
Raiders: No, because we do what we want and you can do nothing about it! If you want that so much make me stop!

Edited July 20, 2010 by D34th

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='20 July 2010 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1279669040' post='2381491']
The difference Damsky, these cowards will make war on nations and call it tech raids. If any large alliance were to organize a raid against them they would cry and activate treaties to no end to win. Prey on the weak is all they can do.
[/quote]


Bahha what?

Of course, a full scale alliance war is very different than a 1v1 raid. They're raiding unaligned red nations. Once they become aligned it will stop.

[quote name='D34th' date='20 July 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1279669188' post='2381498']
Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Oh yeah, both are wrong.
[/quote]

OH GOD TWO GROUND BATTLES WHICH WILL PROBABLY RESULT IN THE LOSS OF TEN TECH. [b]THE HORROR![/b]

Edited July 20, 2010 by Mr Damsky