the gremlins

[TOLWYN]

just curious to know, it looks like a lot of people hate the gramlins or whatever and wont sell them tech. i wonder why that is.

[James IV]

Its because the haters are gonna hate. =P

Gramlins is still fighting IRON from their upper tiers so IRON and its friends don't want the Gramlins to be fed anymore tech to hurt them with.

[anenu]

there is a 200+ page topic about this already, i suggest you read that if you really want to know.

[TOLWYN]

im sorry but i tried to read that and i was confused right from the start. it would be nice if someone could just explain in a meaningful way wats going on. why is there even a war in the first place.

Edited July 6, 2010 by TOLWYN

[Horatio Longworth]

Read up on your history a bit, read the 200+ page topic, and you will get a better understanding. It's complicated and I'm not sure if even [i]I[/i] could explain it to you.

Thank you for not using all caps this time.

[iMatt]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Unjust_War

everything you need to know ^ there.

[Pomiel]

[quote name='anenu' date='06 July 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1278434386' post='2361191']
there is a 200+ page topic about this already, i suggest you read that if you really want to know.
[/quote]

lmao

no, you definitely shouldn't read that thread. you'll probably get bored halfway through page 2


Basically, NpO didn't like \m/ so they started a war. Then as that war came to a close, The Order of the Paradox (TOP) declared war on the Complaints and Grievances Union ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Complaints_and_Grievances_Union"]wiki[/url]) because they thought CnG were planning to harm them or some crap ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79441"]DoW[/url]) . Shortly afterwards, several of TOP's allies, including IRON, DAWN, TORN, and others also declared on CnG for similar reasons ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/TOP-C%26G_War"]wiki[/url]) . The Gramlins under Ramirus Maximus recently adopted a "paper-less" policy in which they don't sign treaties, and support people they consider to be their friends. Despite this, they still maintain (?) a treaty with Mostly Harmless Alliance, the Harmlin Accords, which basically states that Gramlins and MHA are the same alliance ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_H%C3%A4rmlins"]wiki[/url]). Thus, the Harmlins declared IRON ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79461"]DoW[/url]).

Eventually, most forces on the side of Complaints and Grievances Union agreed to cease hostilities with the TOP side in the Easter Sunday Accords ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=83752"]forums[/url]). Ramirus Maximus, and the Gramlins, however did not agree to this, despite their brothers in MHA's name appearing on the document. This is where things get really controversial: Ramirus wanted IRON et al to agree to unconditional surrender, which would basically allow Gramlins to dictate whatever they wanted as terms after the surrender. Ramirus maintains that this was only to force IRON to concede that it was wrong to begin the war. Many were vehemently opposed to this as they believed Gramlins could abuse this power. Thus, the Gramlins continue their fight against IRON alone, to this day.

Ramirus claims that this course of action is better suited towards the Gramlins beliefs and ideals laid out in the Codex of War and that because of this, the idea of abusing the unconditional surrender wouldn't happen, and claims that if IRON had accepted unconditional surrender when first offered, IRON would be free from terms before the ESA were passed. People are mad because they believe Ramirus is running what was once a very well respected alliance into the ground. The Gramlins one had 80 (?) nations in their prime (I don't remember cause I was MIA for about a year), and now they only have 19 (?) last I checked.

Ramirus believes that IRON is continuing ideas that were fought against in the Karma war; the idea that you can attack anyone for any reason as long as you're strong enough. IRON and most others believe that Ramirus was setting a precedent for allowing unconditional surrenders which could easily be abused. Additionally, Ramirus is kind of a dick sometimes and talks down at basically everyone playing the game. He uses real life concepts that probably don't have any place in the game and this makes it hard for anyone to sympathize with him.

/summary

edit: /biast probably

edit2: /some of it might be wrong too...

Edited July 6, 2010 by Pomiel

[The Eye]

This is basically an IC question, and also essentially a 'Can someone tell me what's going on' thread which are not allowed, so I'm going to lock it. The thread in World Affairs is the primary reference (though yeah, 200 pages ).

[quote]This is where things get really controversial: Ramirus wanted IRON et al to agree to unconditional surrender[/quote]
That's what the huge thread is about.

[Kim Jaym Il]

Well at least the caps lock is gone.

[TOLWYN]

[quote name='Pomiel' date='06 July 2010 - 11:23 AM' timestamp='1278437000' post='2361222']
lmao

no, you definitely shouldn't read that thread. you'll probably get bored halfway through page 2


Basically, NpO didn't like \m/ so they started a war. Then as that war came to a close, The Order of the Paradox (TOP) declared war on the Complaints and Grievances Union ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Complaints_and_Grievances_Union"]wiki[/url]) because they thought CnG were planning to harm them or some crap ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79441"]DoW[/url]) . Shortly afterwards, several of TOP's allies, including IRON, DAWN, TORN, and others also declared on CnG for similar reasons ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/TOP-C%26G_War"]wiki[/url]) . The Gramlins under Ramirus Maximus recently adopted a "paper-less" policy in which they don't sign treaties, and support people they consider to be their friends. Despite this, they still maintain (?) a treaty with Mostly Harmless Alliance, the Harmlin Accords, which basically states that Gramlins and MHA are the same alliance ([url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_H%C3%A4rmlins"]wiki[/url]). Thus, the Harmlins declared IRON ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79461"]DoW[/url]).

Eventually, most forces on the side of Complaints and Grievances Union agreed to cease hostilities with the TOP side in the Easter Sunday Accords ([url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=83752"]forums[/url]). Ramirus Maximus, and the Gramlins, however did not agree to this, despite their brothers in MHA's name appearing on the document. This is where things get really controversial: Ramirus wanted IRON et al to agree to unconditional surrender, which would basically allow Gramlins to dictate whatever they wanted as terms after the surrender. Ramirus maintains that this was only to force IRON to concede that it was wrong to begin the war. Many were vehemently opposed to this as they believed Gramlins could abuse this power. Thus, the Gramlins continue their fight against IRON alone, to this day.

Ramirus claims that this course of action is better suited towards the Gramlins beliefs and ideals laid out in the Codex of War and that because of this, the idea of abusing the unconditional surrender wouldn't happen, and claims that if IRON had accepted unconditional surrender when first offered, IRON would be free from terms before the ESA were passed. People are mad because they believe Ramirus is running what was once a very well respected alliance into the ground. The Gramlins one had 80 (?) nations in their prime (I don't remember cause I was MIA for about a year), and now they only have 19 (?) last I checked.

Ramirus believes that IRON is continuing ideas that were fought against in the Karma war; the idea that you can attack anyone for any reason as long as you're strong enough. IRON and most others believe that Ramirus was setting a precedent for allowing unconditional surrenders which could easily be abused. Additionally, Ramirus is kind of a dick sometimes and talks down at basically everyone playing the game. He uses real life concepts that probably don't have any place in the game and this makes it hard for anyone to sympathize with him.

/summary

edit: /biast probably

edit2: /some of it might be wrong too...
[/quote]

thank you for that well written explanation, its very informative. sorry to the mod about making this thread cus i didnt kno it wasnt allowed. just please dont ban me.

Edited July 6, 2010 by TOLWYN

[Seth Muscarella]

banning tolwyn is banned, fyi. also, i've never seen anything good come out of a 200pg thread, and i doubt it will in that case either.

[Believland]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='06 July 2010 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1278448879' post='2361438']
banning tolwyn is banned, fyi. also, i've never seen anything good come out of a 200pg thread, and i doubt it will in that case either.
[/quote]
That's because you know nothing.

Tolwyn, the story is very long and it began a long time before the 2nd UJW(lol). Basically Ram ran a perfectly capable and respected alliance into the ground. Then pulled out a shovel and started to dig.

[Alistair Thorrington]

[quote name='The Eye' date='06 July 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1278438448' post='2361241']
This is basically an IC question, and also essentially a 'Can someone tell me what's going on' thread which are not allowed, so I'm going to lock it. The thread in World Affairs is the primary reference (though yeah, 200 pages ).


That's what the huge thread is about.
[/quote]

Wait a second, this thread isn't locked at all!

I don't know what kinda stunt you're trying to pull here, pal, but I don't like it, not one bit.

[Marneus Calgar]

[quote name='Alistair Thorrington' date='07 July 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1278473935' post='2362071']
Wait a second, this thread isn't locked at all!

I don't know what kinda stunt you're trying to pull here, pal, but I don't like it, not one bit.
[/quote]
Maybe he thinks it'll go somewhere and not be 200 pages of circling like the other thread.

[Eric Cantona]

[quote name='The Eye' date='06 July 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1278438448' post='2361241']
This is basically an IC question, and also essentially a 'Can someone tell me what's going on' thread which are not allowed, so [b]I'm going to lock it[/b]. The thread in World Affairs is the primary reference (though yeah, 200 pages ).


That's what the huge thread is about.
[/quote]

o rly