Co-Prosperity Sphere Announcement

[Banksy]

[quote name='Branimir' date='03 July 2010 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1278108377' post='2358132']
And they laughed at Vladimir's account of GPW1 as rewriting history. Unlike you, he actually has something to work with, while your statement is just a humorous relief in otherwise uneventful season.[/quote]
Okay, man!

[quote name='Branimir' date='03 July 2010 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1278108377' post='2358132']
As it will remain it seems. The two major blocks are keeping it together. While certainly some complaints will come onto the account of that, honestly, its just rational course of action. It has a bad effect on the interest levels of an average nation ruler on our planet, but still, if they chose to play it "conservatively" (lets call it like that) its their call to make. They say they are friends, so, they are friendly. Eventually everything comes to an end, but now its age of "co-prosperity". We are all friends. The world is a friendly place. So, friends, who is buying me bier? [/quote]
I'm unsure what you are trying to say here. Are we wrong for wanting a peaceful and stable world? We are conservative because, frankly, we don't want to ignite a war.

[quote name='Branimir' date='03 July 2010 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1278108377' post='2358132']
What would you all do if there was no NPO?
I mean I do love the fact we are center of the world for so many, but its also kind of silly at moments.[/quote]
I think you will find that the Supergrievance Coalition[sup]TM[/sup] is at the centre of the world, thank you very much.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1278109600' post='2358151']

Athens & co made up a bs CB and rolled TPF with the intention of dragging the rest of us into the curb stomp we have received twice in a year.

[/quote]

Which is why we gave them white peace after a week. Because we wanted to curbstomp you all. Right.

[quote]might have taken a week but when they came you couldnt get out quick enough, less than 1 day I believe. [/quote]

But I thought the point was to drag you into a war! Which one is it, Alterego, did we purposely draw you in to curbstomp you, or are we afraid of you? You can't have it both ways.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Penkala

[Alterego]

[quote name='Penkala' date='03 July 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1278113728' post='2358187']
Which is why we gave them white peace after a week. Because we wanted to curbstomp you all. Right.



But I thought the point was to drag you into a war! Which one is it, Alterego, did we purposely draw you in to curbstomp you, or are we afraid of you? You can't have it both ways.
[/quote]
The idea was a curbstomp. Whenthey realised it would be a close fight they bailed out and waited for a more lopsided fight to come along. Thas why the 2 top blocs are trying to form a super bloc. To keep things lopsided. Anything else? tie your shoe laces and wipe your nose perhaps.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1278113625' post='2358184']
It might have taken a week but when they came you couldnt get out quick enough, less than 1 day I believe.
[/quote]
You declared when peace talks were wrapping up, what do you expect?

[Penkala]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1278114345' post='2358197']
The idea was a curbstomp. Whenthey realised it would be a close fight they bailed out and waited for a more lopsided fight to come along. Thas why the 2 top blocs are trying to form a super bloc. To keep things lopsided. Anything else? tie your shoe laces and wipe your nose perhaps.
[/quote]

No no no, you said we tried to lure all of you into a war to beat you all down, then said we backed off because you were all to strong.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' date='03 July 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1278114396' post='2358198']
You declared when peace talks were wrapping up, what do you expect?
[/quote]
NPO declared in an earlier war "during" peace talks. I cant remember for sure but I think you finished the peace talks then and it was white peace all around, no wait! I expected the same I guess.

[D34th]

The funny thing about [b]majority[/b] of people complaining about the "New Hegemony" is that all they want is the old one back.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Penkala' date='03 July 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1278114498' post='2358199']
No no no, you said we tried to lure all of you into a war to beat you all down, then said we backed off because you were all to strong.
[/quote]
One no would have Sufficed.

[quote name='D34th' date='03 July 2010 - 12:52 AM' timestamp='1278114753' post='2358206']
The funny thing about [b]majority[/b] of people complaining about the "New Hegemony" is that all they want is the old one back.
[/quote]
Quite a few of the old one are in the new one so you are incorrect.

[D34th]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1278114907' post='2358208']
One no would have Sufficed.


Quite a few of the old one are in the new one so you are incorrect.
[/quote]


Yeah I'm incorrect because you said so.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1278114603' post='2358201']
NPO declared in an earlier war "during" peace talks. I cant remember for sure but I think you finished the peace talks then and it was white peace all around, no wait! I expected the same I guess.
[/quote]
The scenarios are pretty different.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Challenge for you here, Bob. Please compare the wars that took place within 1 year of the Karma war by our side to the wars that took place within 1 year of GWIII by WUT. Please list all the wars started by us and by them over the same amount of time, and take a looksee at how they compare. I await your results. [/quote]
I'm not sure how this is relevant to my point. It sounds awfully like the 'But we're [i]not as bad as they were[/i]!' argument applied to every SG injustice, actually. Just because you're (so far) not as evil a hegemon as the Hegemony doesn't mean you aren't becoming one. A better comparison anyway would be the year after the formation of the Hegemony, the signing of WUT ('Supergrievances' certainly didn't exist before Karma) – except that actually it would be more like the six months after that because (OOC)the game was only two years old then and now it's four(/OOC). And in the six months after the formation of the Initiative there were two major wars, aimed at the old enemy, and finally resulting in a beatdown. Not that different from the TPF war (where SG backed down from a close fight) and the Bipolar War (where SG took advantage of a convenient situation to roll the 'old enemy').

Anyway, despite the irrelevance of your question, here's what I can remember. Remember that a year back then is actually more like two years now so the outcome is hugely biased in favour of SG (which is why you asked as you did).
For the Initiative-Continuum Hegemony we have:
Viridicide (May 07).
Unjust War (Aug-Sept 07)
VietFAN II (Dec 07)
GPA war (Jan 08)
NADC? I don't really remember when that was. But it was started by Polar anyway who were outside what's usually considered the Hegemony.

For Supergrievances we have:
Ni (Nov 09)
TPF War (Dec 09)
Bipolar War (Jan 10). Again started by Polar but SG were all over it and escalated it.

Anyway, yeah, like I say, I'm not sure what your point is here. Supergrievances, if cemented sufficiently as one entity (which treaties like this move towards it being), is hegemonic, and that isn't affected by whether you're 'not as bad as the NPO' or even if you're perfect benevolent rulers of the world.

[quote]No no no, you said we tried to lure all of you into a war to beat you all down, then said we backed off because you were all to strong. [/quote]
Both of these things have some element of truth.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 July 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1278116082' post='2358222']
Bipolar War (Jan 10). Again started by Polar but SG were all over it and escalated it.
[/quote]

Who exactly are we counting as "SG" here? The main escalators were PC, FOK and NSO for the first half and then TOP and IRON for the second half.

[Banksy]

haha, yes. A "SG coalition" started the BiPolar war, a war that is certainly on par with the Woodstock, GATO-1V and Vietfan.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 July 2010 - 07:15 PM' timestamp='1278116082' post='2358222']

Bipolar War (Jan 10). Again started by Polar but [i]SG were all over it and escalated it.[/i]

[/quote]


Uh no, TOP and IRON were the ones to escalate it. We had no real desire to get involved.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Londo Mollari

[Penkala]

[quote name='Alterego' date='02 July 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1278114603' post='2358201']
NPO declared in an earlier war "during" peace talks. I cant remember for sure but I think you finished the peace talks then and it was white peace all around, no wait! I expected the same I guess.
[/quote]

What? That makes no sense and does not defend you at all. Besides, yes, it was pretty much white peace all around. Maybe what, 10% of alliances paid any reps?


[quote]One no would have Sufficed.[/quote]

What? You're just like Aut. When I beat you, you turn to silly arguments and criticisms.

[quote] except that actually it would be more like the six months after that because (OOC)the game was only two years old then and now it's four(/OOC). [/quote]

What the hell? Just because we've all been around longer doesn't mean the number of wars started in a given time period is no longer relevant. NPO did much much more than we have. So much more, in fact, it's incredible you can even compare us to them or mention how 'scary' it is that we have power now.

And I love how you count the bipolar war as one of ours. That's some cute revisionism. "Your ally was attacked because Grub didn't like that they said, and you had the audacity to follow your [b]MDoAPs[/b], so you started the war basically."

You're so off it's sad, Bob.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Penkala

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 July 2010 - 07:15 PM' timestamp='1278116082' post='2358222']
Ni (Nov 09)
[/quote]
I don't think this was a war in all honesty.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Vladimir' date='03 July 2010 - 01:04 AM' timestamp='1278111858' post='2358173']Call me when the new and exciting world of multipolar conflict happens. I'll be at the top of a mountain in the Temple of Prophecy.[/quote]
Hahaha. Your cutting tongue yet again scores. Shame it probably passed over many heads.

Also, to say, your one liners are better suited for the audience and their attention span. Point in case your analysis of the "promised land of multipolar politics and wars connected to them". I would like to see the critics now, and the most funny thing of all is-- it was all just common sense basically. Heh.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Branimir' date='02 July 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1278119702' post='2358253']
Hahaha. Your cutting tongue yet again scores. Shame it probably passed over many heads.

Also, to say, your one liners are better suited for the audience and their attention span. Point in case your analysis of the "promised land of multipolar politics and wars connected to them". I would like to see the critics now, and the most funny thing of all is-- it was all just common sense basically. Heh.
[/quote]

Did you, like, miss the time between Karma and now? I mean, I know you were busy trying to find away to defeat us before you paid all your reps and had to accept complete defeat, but there were five pretty clear blocs and over a dozen different near-wars that projected all these blocs helping and fighting in different groups. The world was very multi-polar, and 2 of the weaker blocs (the two essentially run by a single alliance -- NpO's and TOP's) died. A third has had a sharp decline.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Penkala

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' date='02 July 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1278102604' post='2358027']
You're forgetting the strategic victories for MK in UjW and noCB!!
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So you used nukes and managed to do more damage to your enemy than you would have without them? However, you still lost. TOP also nuked and completely ravaged CnG. Could they not claim that as a strategic victory as well? So maybe they did lose. But they did blow up a lot of your stuff!

I am sorry, but no amount of 'skill' can overcome a 100 mil NS handicap. So please let us not pretend that SF and CnG solidifying its rule is not a bad thing.[/color]

[quote name='Penkala' date='02 July 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1278108608' post='2358136']
We entered the last three wars with more even odds than those NPO entered for the past several years. It's not our fault we're more skilled than them.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am only going to mention global wars since GWIII (which was the last remotely even war) since the beat downs of the NPO era are rather irrelevant (and would not have been [i]as[/i] lopsided had people honored their treaties). So far as global wars go the UjW, Karma, and the what are we even calling the last war each had about a 2 to 1 strength ration. ~ had 90 mil to UjP's 45 mil. Karma had 200 mil to Hegemony's 100, and Big Side once again had 200 mil to Little Side's 100. That may seem like 2 to 1 odds, which aren't bad for the underdog, but when we factor in the mechanics of war, it pretty much makes it a certain victory for the larger side. No skill involved whatsoever. In fact, it would take an act of God for the larger side [i]not[/i] to win.

The only global war in which the losing side had even worse luck was the noCB war, in which BLEU had 33 mil to the Coalition's 133 mil. Or to put it another way, the Coalition had four times as much strength. I would also like to remind you that your beloved Superfriends took part in that war (on the beating down side mind you).[/color]

[quote name='Penkala' date='02 July 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1278120154' post='2358260']
The world was very multi-polar, and 2 of the weaker blocs (the two essentially run by a single alliance -- NpO's and TOP's) died. A third has had a sharp decline.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]And the two remaining blocs, instead of deciding to go at each other, fell very much in love. So much for that multi-polar world. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.[/color]

Edited July 3, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Branimir]

[quote name='Penkala' date='03 July 2010 - 03:22 AM' timestamp='1278120154' post='2358260']Did you, like, miss the time between Karma and now? [/quote]
No I didn't? Did you?
Hah, no you didn't, its just the party line in you. That also makes you a party unable to really debate.

As it may be, I am not going to argue with you. Vlad said enough already-- "Za pametnog dosta" ("For a smart guy, enough"),...to use a proverb from my nation.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Branimir

[wickedj]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 July 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1278101714' post='2358011']
The preamble is close enough to the truth that, while still funny, it is a bit uncomfortable. Cementing Supergrievances as a permanent pseudobloc will indeed make you a hegemon.
[/quote]
Oh Bobby, you're love for your former Citadel crew has left you blind or atleast crazy. You realize VE is essentially a defacto Superfriend, right? I mean surely you havent forgotten about all those treaties and blocs with GOD and RoK

[Penkala]

Rebel Virginia, you cannot simply exclude the data from Pacifica's numerous 12-1 beatdowns and then claim that we walked into battles with odds in our favor more than NPO. That is not how it works.


[quote]
So you used nukes and managed to do more damage to your enemy than you would have without them? However, you still lost. TOP also nuked and completely ravaged CnG. Could they not claim that as a strategic victory as well? So maybe they did lose. But they did blow up a lot of your stuff.[/quote]

And CnG did equally as well as TOP, unlike NPO who used their greater numbers to finally inflict damage to MK!


[quote]That also makes you a party unable to really debate.

As it may be, I am not going to argue with you. [/quote]

"What happened to the multi-polar world we were promised?!?!"

*Points to it*

"You're hard to debate with I'm not going to respond."

Edited July 3, 2010 by Penkala

[Choader]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' date='02 July 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1278119616' post='2358252']
I don't think this was a war in all honesty.
[/quote]
It wasn't. If that's being called a war now you might as well call the GPA war a raid.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Choader' date='02 July 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1278121929' post='2358287']
It wasn't. If that's being called a war now you might as well call the GPA war a raid.
[/quote]

The GPA war [i]was[/i] a war. The Ni raid lasted for two days and reps were paid and an apology was made. It was an actual tech raid. NPO's war on GPA involved use of all weapons available (except nukes; it was a conventional war) and lasted what was it, a month? No reps were paid for damages.

[Anomaly]

I'm Anonomaly now.

Bah.