DoE @ 11:08 PM, attacked by GOONS @ 11:36:21 PM

[lamuella]

or it could be that they just want to try something different and will return if it doesn't work out.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' date='26 June 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1277603541' post='2351485']
I don't know about Invicta, but I know plenty of people in MK that are fit to lead but aren't in gov.
[/quote]
And they are leaving to found protectorates instead?

People competent for government with time on their hands for gov will be in your alliance government. Or they will leave because they disagree with something your alliance wants to do.

That second one doesn't sound like a solid basis for a solid relationship.

Also, this is an OOC forum. I'm not speaking here as Invicta gov. Actually most of my post is based on experiences in another world, where I happened to be playing someone who was allied to GOONS there. (No MK though.)

[quote name='Lamuella' date='26 June 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1277610480' post='2351565']
or it could be that they just want to try something different and will return if it doesn't work out.
[/quote]
Yes. Also there are rare examples of complicated drama situations where it's also a good idea.

This last "just want to try something different" thing is very rarely ever the truth. Usually it's code for "I hate this freaking charter."

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

So, someone or some people paid for GOONS Hired Guns service? If this guy has the protectors he claimed to have, they'll do something about it. If not, he either is a liar or his would-be protectors are cowards. Pretty straightforward.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='27 June 2010 - 05:15 PM' timestamp='1277612124' post='2351582']
And they are leaving to found protectorates instead?

People competent for government with time on their hands for gov will be in your alliance government. Or they will leave because they disagree with something your alliance wants to do.[/quote]
Again, this may be the case in Invicta but MK has a lot of people more than competent enough to be gov. Despite this they aren't all gov and yet they aren't leaving in droves as you seem to think they would.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='26 June 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1277599385' post='2351414']
No, it doesn't.

Most of the people in that category come under "incompetent"

There isn't a competent alliance out there that wants intelligent, competent members to leave. Period.
[/quote]
If a member of an alliance leaves and forms a new alliance that allies itself with you, it usually results in a net increase of military and political power. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

[Qaianna]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='26 June 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1277614500' post='2351635']
Again, this may be the case in Invicta but MK has a lot of people more than competent enough to be gov. Despite this they aren't all gov and yet they aren't leaving in droves as you seem to think they would.
[/quote]
The key word is 'will', I think. Sooner or later you'll need to tap that leadership resource--whether someone leaves, retires, deletes, or wanders off to form another alliance. The leaders will eventually come up as they're noticed/recognised/banging down the door. Of course, a good mark of leadership is harnessing talent, rather than letting it wander off.

Still, I think Haflinger did get the gist of it right, reading through. I don't quite agree with the notion that if Big Bunch of Nations has Break Away Republic spin off from it, BBN would be stronger. You never know what BAR would do here--after all, they did want to break away in the first place, no matter how amicable the parting is. And if nothing else, the breakaway will end up in its own diplomatic disputes, treaty situations, place in the treaty web, et cetera.

Yeah. If I ever break off to form my own alliance, I'll remember to find a protectorate elsewhere to avoid awkward relations.

..wait. The last time I ran an alliance..um..hold on, I need to remind current government to whack me in the head with a 2x4 if I think of forming my own alliance.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='27 June 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1277614500' post='2351635']
Again, this may be the case in Invicta but MK has a lot of people more than competent enough to be gov. Despite this they aren't all gov and yet they aren't leaving in droves as you seem to think they would.
[/quote]
You can't read.

Spot the phrase "with time on their hands."

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='27 June 2010 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1277644560' post='2351835']
You can't read.

Spot the phrase "with time on their hands."
[/quote]

You keep believing that all alliances are made of as much fail as the ones you are in. You seem set in this although MK is an excellent example to the opposite, as I'm sure a lot of other elite alliances are.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='27 June 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1277644560' post='2351835']
You can't read.

Spot the phrase "with time on their hands."
[/quote]

Still gotta disagree with that. There's alliances out there with members who have plenty of time, are active, competent and could easily be in a government position yet aren't. If you have x members that fill this criteria but only y spots that tends to happen. It doesn't always result in all of them leaving to do their own thing.

[Boyle]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='27 June 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1277612124' post='2351582']
Yes. Also there are rare examples of complicated drama situations where it's also a good idea.

This last "just want to try something different" thing is very rarely ever the truth. Usually it's code for "I hate this freaking charter."
[/quote]
It's actually not that rare. Being in the same alliance for, oh, almost four years can get boring. It's nice to get out of a set structure and see if you can handle CN on your own, or even just to test out other alliances. Usually when someone hates the charter or the methods by which the alliance operates, they'll say as much.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Arthur Blair' date='27 June 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1277662183' post='2352045']
You keep believing that all alliances are made of as much fail as the ones you are in. You seem set in this although MK is an excellent example to the opposite, as I'm sure a lot of other elite alliances are.
[/quote]
Look, you can read all you want into my statement. Kindly avoid reading it to mean exactly the opposite of what it actually says though.

(If you think Invicta's the only alliance I've ever been in, you're sadly mistaken. This is an OOC forum, so I'm going off of my experiences in quite a few games; I may have only been in two alliances in CN but that's very much not the case in some other places.)

[quote name='Mixoux' date='27 June 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1277670829' post='2352149']
Still gotta disagree with that. There's alliances out there with members who have plenty of time, are active, competent and could easily be in a government position yet aren't. If you have x members that fill this criteria but only y spots that tends to happen. It doesn't always result in all of them leaving to do their own thing.
[/quote]
Then they don't want to be in government.

Look, competent people setting up a protectorate will be active, competent and have time on their hands. If they don't have time, they're not competent - any competent person knows setting up an alliance is alot harder than running an established one.

That still doesn't mean their alliance wants them to leave. (Unless it's dumb. Heh.)

(As for the y spots problem. Most alliances I've seen, if they've got someone they really want to keep, they make sure one of those y spots is freed up; if necessary y becomes y+1.)

[quote name='Boyle' date='27 June 2010 - 06:02 PM' timestamp='1277676156' post='2352192']
It's actually not that rare. Being in the same alliance for, oh, almost four years can get boring. It's nice to get out of a set structure and see if you can handle CN on your own, or even just to test out other alliances. Usually when someone hates the charter or the methods by which the alliance operates, they'll say as much.
[/quote]
Man, four years?

Most alliances aren't even four years old. Heck I'm not even four years old.

Most of the time I hear that phrase it's someone who's been playing for six months or less. Older players usually skip the BS.

[Louisa]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 June 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1277687889' post='2352332']
[quote name='Mixoux' date='27 June 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1277670829' post='2352149']
Still gotta disagree with that. There's alliances out there with members who have plenty of time, are active, competent and could easily be in a government position yet aren't. If you have x members that fill this criteria but only y spots that tends to happen. It doesn't always result in all of them leaving to do their own thing.
[/quote]
Then they don't want to be in government.
[/quote]

X=50, Y=15. Now what?

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 June 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1277687889' post='2352332']
(As for the y spots problem. Most alliances I've seen, if they've got someone they really want to keep, they make sure one of those y spots is freed up; if necessary y becomes y+1.)
[/quote]

Ah, I see -- invent sinecures and phantom posts for the 35 extras, or maybe just add half a dozen deputies and assistant deputies to each minister etc.



Wait, how did the thread change to this subject?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Louisa' date='28 June 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1277700649' post='2352467']
X=50, Y=15. Now what?
[/quote]
Hope your 35 extras don't want to be in gov for whatever reason.

[quote name='Louisa' date='28 June 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1277700649' post='2352467']
Wait, how did the thread change to this subject?
[/quote]
Because whenever I post, even little off-the-cuff remarks, everyone replies to me.

[Mustakrakish II]

this kind of sucks BM, but I still lol'd

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='27 June 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1277612683' post='2351593']
So, someone or some people paid for GOONS Hired Guns service? If this guy has the protectors he claimed to have, they'll do something about it. If not, he either is a liar or his would-be protectors are cowards. Pretty straightforward.
[/quote]


Yeah wasn't there a few announcements of alliances that were saying they'd protect them?

Where are they during all this?