Executive Minister Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Triyun' date='22 June 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1277255533' post='2347107'] [b]People's enjoyment only applies so far, if we wanted everyone to be happy we'd have to invent a couple extra continents to accommodate people's desires.[/b] Land is a scarce resource, which is essentially controlled by politics. War is at its heart one tool in the arsenal of politics. If one opposes a military move, than one should oppose it IC. One shouldn't seek OOC methods. [/quote] Indeed, so while Keshav gets to keep his part of China, you'll just have to settle for what you've got. People's enjoyment only applies so far, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Executive Minister' date='22 June 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1277255827' post='2347113'] Indeed, so while Keshav gets to keep his part of China, you'll just have to settle for what you've got. People's enjoyment only applies so far, you know. [/quote] Indeed, so while Triyun gets to invade the rest of China, Keshav will just have to settle for losing land. People's enjoyment only applies so far, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 We are playing a nation simulation game. Nations suffer the threat of invasion in the real world, its people's choice to decide on the level of aggression they wish to have. If someone has a problem with it they should try to assemble the World Congress again or something. Those of us opposed to such a vision will work to destroy it, such is the way of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 That actually sounds kind of fun. If only we could actually get the World Congress to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 The only one who should be able to use Botha Mode is Botha. His case is unique. He was at first not attacked due to respect for his long standing prescence, activity, good RP, but ALSO he is in a piece of territory that is not disputed - that is to say, if he were at europe, it wouldn't be possible to uphold him, therefore I don't think any other nation should ever be able to use this mode, and especially not to avoid a war. Botha mode is just for Botha, all else who fail to accept a war should be wiped out off the map unless they fight. At that, I won't recognize any player who conveniently fails to recognize a war because he knows he'll lose. That's too why Botha mode works, he doesn't care for winning or losing, he just does his thing. OOC shields are something that should not exist excepting for that case, and in cases in which one simply isn't around to RP one's nation for some time. But then it shouldn't be exploited, anyone doing this to exploit should be wiped too. Also, yes, OOC !@#$ happens when wars are fought. But that's just a part of CNRP. A lot of the community just isn't mature enough to handle being wiped out off of the map, and the moderation/gamemastership over the community just isn't good enough to prevent OOC problem from happening either, but if we cease to recognize wars over this, we might as well ALL go to bothamode or outright leave CNRP as it'd lose its meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzydog Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Kaiser Martens' date='22 June 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1277256948' post='2347126'] The only one who should be able to use Botha Mode is Botha. His case is unique. He was at first not attacked due to respect for his long standing prescence, activity, good RP, but ALSO he is in a piece of territory that is not disputed - that is to say, if he were at europe, it wouldn't be possible to uphold him, therefore I don't think any other nation should ever be able to use this mode, and especially not to avoid a war. Botha mode is just for Botha, all else who fail to accept a war should be wiped out off the map unless they fight. At that, I won't recognize any player who conveniently fails to recognize a war because he knows he'll lose. That's too why Botha mode works, he doesn't care for winning or losing, he just does his thing. OOC shields are something that should not exist excepting for that case, and in cases in which one simply isn't around to RP one's nation for some time. But then it shouldn't be exploited, anyone doing this to exploit should be wiped too. Also, yes, OOC !@#$ happens when wars are fought. But that's just a part of CNRP. [b]A lot of the community just isn't mature enough to handle being wiped out off of the map[/b], and the moderation/gamemastership over the community just isn't good enough to prevent OOC problem from happening either, but if we cease to recognize wars over this, we might as well ALL go to bothamode or outright leave CNRP as it'd lose its meaning. [/quote] I've just been waiting for UI to get wiped so I can go into the Canada/America area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Triyun' date='22 June 2010 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1277239847' post='2346931'] I never heard of an OOC shield when I first played this game and I do not think that one should be formalized by any sort of GM triumvirate. Much of what appeals to my particular style of RP is rather than pre-planned wars, the strategy involved in defeating opponents, out maneuvering them militarily and diplomatically. [b] If someone wishes to keep their territory without defending it in my opinion they should just RP separate from the map. When there is a scarcity of resources people should compete for it. [/b] Thats what makes games fun. [/quote] [quote name='Triyun' date='22 June 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1277255533' post='2347107'] People's enjoyment only applies so far, if we wanted everyone to be happy we'd have to invent a couple extra continents to accommodate people's desires. [b]Land is a scarce resource, which is essentially controlled by politics. War is at its heart one tool in the arsenal of politics. If one opposes a military move, than one should oppose it IC.[/b] One shouldn't seek OOC methods. [/quote] [quote name='Triyun' date='22 June 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1277256413' post='2347122'] We are playing a nation simulation game. Nations suffer the threat of invasion in the real world, its people's choice to decide on the level of aggression they wish to have. [b]If someone has a problem with it they should try to assemble the World Congress again or something. Those of us opposed to such a vision will work to destroy it, such is the way of the world.[/b] [/quote] See, joking aside, I totally agree with you. I wish that this RP had a 'survival of the fittest' mentality. I wish that only those that had both a strong military and diplomatic mind would reign supreme. Those that don't adapt and learn be wiped from the map. I hate seeing people move 50,000 troops across the ocean on a 'fleet' of C-130's. I hate seeing people RPing human wave attacks as a modern warfighting doctrine. Politics and warfare should indeed be the de facto CNRP. Maybe then it would prevent people from RPing nations named after Amalgamated Polygons. However, I am a pragmatist. If getting on the map meant being the strongest in those categories, we would have a lot less RPers on these boards. This RP would stagnate and just become one of the many 'specialty' RP boards out there. CNRP thrives on the 'colourful' antics of its RPers. We need as many as we can get. If a shield is a way to protect less... 'abled' RPers from powerhouses such as yourself, so be it. Some people are not looking to compete, but to dick around in their own little worlds with the occasional nod from someone else. Edited June 23, 2010 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 But that's wrong, because, he can just reroll elsewhere and keep RPing. His defeat doesn't mean he'd be gone from CNRP. It just means he loses a particular amount of land. So, the shield is inexcusable. If you shield him, in fact you make RP less interesting, make people bored, make them leave. Besides, this also happens because of CNRP's rules. In the past, CNRP was only about RP. If it were still about RP, the nation would still be able to defend itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) EM, while I agree about the colorful antics and such, there are IC ways to protect oneself through diplomacy and clever strategy. As we have seen, just because someone conquers a land does not mean the person conquered has to give up. Edited June 23, 2010 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzydog Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Executive Minister' date='22 June 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1277258914' post='2347148'] See, joking aside, I totally agree with you. I wish that this RP had a 'survival of the fittest' mentality. I wish that only those that had both a strong military and diplomatic mind would reign supreme. Those that don't adapt and learn be wiped from the map. I hate seeing people move 50,000 troops across the ocean on a 'fleet' of C-130's. I hate seeing people RPing human wave attacks as a modern warfighting doctrine. Politics and warfare should indeed be the de facto CNRP. [b]Maybe then it would prevent people from RPing nations named after Amalgamated Polygons.[/b] However, I am a pragmatist. If getting on the map meant being the strongest in those categories, we would have a lot less RPers on these boards. This RP would stagnate and just become one of the many 'specialty' RP boards out there. CNRP thrives on the 'colourful' antics of its RPers. We need as many as we can get. If a shield is a way to protect less... 'abled' RPers from powerhouses such as yourself, so be it. Some people are not looking to compete, but to dick around in their own little worlds with the occasional nod from someone else. [/quote] Was that a hit at me? Because UI was in my mind before I had even heard of Cyber Nations, thank you very much. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Fizzydog' date='22 June 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1277262564' post='2347205'] Was that a hit at me? Because UI was in my mind before I had even heard of Cyber Nations, thank you very much. :/ [/quote] If your nation's name is stupid, it's going to be insulted. Much like "Articuno Islands" for north China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FSM Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 CNRP is a community of RPers, in any community of our size there will be differences in RP style, such as Executive Minister's or Ubersteins focus on strategy, or Sarah's focus on character development and narrative. Yet there are also differences in the way people believe RP is based. Mael (and much of the community) believe that CNRP is very close to the real world in terms of history. Some believe that RL information (population of cities, location of cities etc) are important to CNRP, others (like myself) believe that CNRP is worlds away from RL and that our map just happens to be an RL one. The point I am trying to illustrate is that CNRP is made up of dozens of different people with dozens of different perspectives and beliefs on what CNRP is. Part of this dynamic is that between Botha Mode (strict stats RPers) and Fantasy RPers. Botha Mode (embodied by Botha, Vedran and Keshav) is at one end of the spectrum of opinions on what role IG stats have in CNRP. For the most part CNRP has been able to integrate Botha Mode RP'ers into the community. (The exception being Junio where he alternated between Botha Mode and Fantasy when IC events were either in or against his favor) I am against players abusing things like Botha mode as an OOC shield when it suits them, however if RPers stick to their style of RP (in Botha, Vedran and Keshav's place, they have stuck strictly to Botha Mode) then we as a community must recognize they have a different RP style and adapt ICly. Trying to OOCly ban their style of RP is bad and is ultimately detrimental to the community. The difference between a Botha Mode RPer and a Fantasy Style RPer is the same as the difference between a RPer who puts an emphasis on battle strategy and tactics and an RPer who moves masses of men and armor around with no mention of tactics or strategy. If certain members of the community wish to remove Botha Mode as a style of RP because they feel it is detrimental to the community, then I propose we remove non-tactics and strategy War Fighting as a style of RP because I and a few others feel it is also detrimental RP. The point I am trying to make is that the community has long accepted Botha Style RP as a valuable component of the CNRP community. Apart from a few members who find their territorial ambitions blocked by the presence of a Botha RPer I dont believe the community has had a change of opinion since Botha Style RP was formalized to warrant having it removed. What I suggest to players confronted with a Botha Style player is to simply alter his or her IC actions to reflect the situation, the same way I had planned to RP with Junio before he started abusing the system. Engage the Botha Style player in a 'cold war' style RP, you will get alot more mileage out of it than trying to OOCly remove that player's style of RP from the CNRP community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 ^ This I agree with. No one is saying ban the war, just make it reasonable. If you want to war against a Botha mode RPer at least do the courtesy of warring him on the same terms. A Botha mode RPer who RPs the exact 10000 or so soldiers he has should not be attacked with the regular x100 multiplier. Also the attacker should also have the decency to avoid bringing in his alliance mates' strengths into this play. The defender was 3 defense slots, bring a maximum of 2 allies into play, if possible at the comparable NS range. Also in that case prepare to welcome other nations in the same range to attack you without activating the other MDP/MDoAP/MDAP treaties which do not translate in IG stats. In other words play fair, not dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='22 June 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1277235227' post='2346844'] The thing is, why should there be rules limiting how people RP? [/quote] No idea why we made a map in the first place...then GMs...then a long list of rules... [quote name='Sargun' date='22 June 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1277255804' post='2347112'] I'm gonna be totally honest here and say that I wish there were several extra continents to fit people on. [/quote] I agree on this matter. [quote name='Triyun' date='22 June 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1277256413' post='2347122'] We are playing a nation simulation game. Nations suffer the threat of invasion in the real world, its people's choice to decide on the level of aggression they wish to have. If someone has a problem with it they should try to assemble the World Congress again or something. Those of us opposed to such a vision will work to destroy it, such is the way of the world. [/quote] This isnt the real world. In the real world, people in their own country rebel against their leaders over senseless war. That wont happen, because OOCly, why would you do that to yourself in the middle of a war? Please stop using the "real world" concept. [quote]But that's wrong, because, he can just reroll elsewhere and keep RPing. His defeat doesn't mean he'd be gone from CNRP. It just means he loses a particular amount of land. So, the shield is inexcusable. If you shield him, in fact you make RP less interesting, make people bored, make them leave. Besides, this also happens because of CNRP's rules. In the past, CNRP was only about RP. If it were still about RP, the nation would still be able to defend itself.[/quote] But thats not what people come here to RP. He has a great news thread that I enjoy reading and he is willing to RP a war...if its planned. No idea what the problem is here. [quote]EM, while I agree about the colorful antics and such, there are IC ways to protect oneself through diplomacy and clever strategy. As we have seen, just because someone conquers a land does not mean the person conquered has to give up.[/quote] Of course there are, but who wants to have their lovely news thread interupted to play someone elses game. You cannot tell me that you'd enjoy a 50k ns plus nation rolling into your nation with 15 nations on standby, stop recognizing you exist, claim your entire country, and then say that diplomacy is a possible choice with no consequences. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Kaiser Martens' date='22 June 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1277259143' post='2347155'] But that's wrong, because, he can just reroll elsewhere and keep RPing. His defeat doesn't mean he'd be gone from CNRP. It just means he loses a particular amount of land. So, the shield is inexcusable. If you shield him, in fact you make RP less interesting, make people bored, make them leave. Besides, this also happens because of CNRP's rules. In the past, CNRP was only about RP. If it were still about RP, the nation would still be able to defend itself. [/quote] If you can tell me, honestly of a time where a person that doesn't necessarily re-roll at the slightest whim (forget Keshav and China, I am arguing against banning any and all 'OOC shields', period) bounces back after being curbstomped, please, show me. New CNRPers do not respond kindly to 'losing a particular amount of land', which in most cases 'a particular' is swapped for 'their entire amount'. [quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='22 June 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1277259618' post='2347161'] EM, while I agree about the colorful antics and such, there are IC ways to protect oneself through diplomacy and clever strategy. As we have seen, just because someone conquers a land does not mean the person conquered has to give up. [/quote] Mudd's case was the first ever insurgency in CNRP. Furthermore, his choice to fight being 'conquered' was almost taken away from him. People are trying to take that Rp mechanic away as we speak. It doesn't help your point when we see the only reason Mudd is being permitted to 'Insurge' against Shadowsage is because of his superior IG stats. Someone like Arathog would have had no hope to win spy rolls against the combined might of you and Lavo in that East African wipe we had a few months back. In some cases, we do need shields for cases such as his. [quote name='Fizzydog' date='22 June 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1277262564' post='2347205'] Was that a hit at me? Because UI was in my mind before I had even heard of Cyber Nations, thank you very much. :/ [/quote] We've resolved that in IRC. Apologies. [quote name='The Flying Scotsman' date='23 June 2010 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1277271789' post='2347402'] CNRP is a community of RPers, in any community of our size there will be differences in RP style, such as Executive Minister's or Ubersteins focus on strategy, or Sarah's focus on character development and narrative. Yet there are also differences in the way people believe RP is based. Mael (and much of the community) believe that CNRP is very close to the real world in terms of history. Some believe that RL information (population of cities, location of cities etc) are important to CNRP, others (like myself) believe that CNRP is worlds away from RL and that our map just happens to be an RL one. The point I am trying to illustrate is that CNRP is made up of dozens of different people with dozens of different perspectives and beliefs on what CNRP is. Part of this dynamic is that between Botha Mode (strict stats RPers) and Fantasy RPers. Botha Mode (embodied by Botha, Vedran and Keshav) is at one end of the spectrum of opinions on what role IG stats have in CNRP. For the most part CNRP has been able to integrate Botha Mode RP'ers into the community. (The exception being Junio where he alternated between Botha Mode and Fantasy when IC events were either in or against his favor) I am against players abusing things like Botha mode as an OOC shield when it suits them, however if RPers stick to their style of RP (in Botha, Vedran and Keshav's place, they have stuck strictly to Botha Mode) then we as a community must recognize they have a different RP style and adapt ICly. Trying to OOCly ban their style of RP is bad and is ultimately detrimental to the community. The difference between a Botha Mode RPer and a Fantasy Style RPer is the same as the difference between a RPer who puts an emphasis on battle strategy and tactics and an RPer who moves masses of men and armor around with no mention of tactics or strategy. If certain members of the community wish to remove Botha Mode as a style of RP because they feel it is detrimental to the community, then I propose we remove non-tactics and strategy War Fighting as a style of RP because I and a few others feel it is also detrimental RP. The point I am trying to make is that the community has long accepted Botha Style RP as a valuable component of the CNRP community. Apart from a few members who find their territorial ambitions blocked by the presence of a Botha RPer I dont believe the community has had a change of opinion since Botha Style RP was formalized to warrant having it removed. What I suggest to players confronted with a Botha Style player is to simply alter his or her IC actions to reflect the situation, the same way I had planned to RP with Junio before he started abusing the system. Engage the Botha Style player in a 'cold war' style RP, you will get alot more mileage out of it than trying to OOCly remove that player's style of RP from the CNRP community. [/quote] I agree with this, except I don't really fall under the category of 'strategic' RPer. I'm pretty sure i've RPed a human wave attack in the past. [quote name='Acca Dacca' date='23 June 2010 - 02:08 AM' timestamp='1277273309' post='2347435'] No idea why we made a map in the first place...then GMs...then a long list of rules... [/quote] We did that because, on the whole, a regulated system is much better than a free market one. Furthermore, I think i've got a theory. CNRP is like a rollercoaster. Between the ups and downs of regulation vs deregulation, RP vs IG, Botha Mode vs Triyun Mode, Sargun vs everyone, X vs Y, which everyone seems to notice, such conflicts of interest keep this big lumbering machine moving forwards. It doesn't matter if we end up back where we took off, the ride was 'fun'. We've tried unregulated RP worlds, which failed. We tried overly strict RP rules, which also failed. CNRP is alive because people on both sides of the issue continuously fail, instead of the RP world failing. [quote] This isnt the real world. In the real world, people in their own country rebel against their leaders over senseless war. That wont happen, because OOCly, why would you do that to yourself in the middle of a war? Please stop using the "real world" concept. [/quote] Indeed. What's funny is that I'm pretty sure Triyun was on the IG should hold higher precedent over RP camp. Not to say he wants to completely remove RP's credibility or what not. However, IG has this funny little thing called NS. That is probably the biggest OOC shield around, and yet, where is the push for IG trumping RP (IC) in this case? [quote] Of course there are, but who wants to have their lovely news thread interupted to play someone elses game. You cannot tell me that you'd enjoy a 50k ns plus nation rolling into your nation with 15 nations on standby, stop recognizing you exist, claim your entire country, and then say that diplomacy is a possible choice with no consequences. Come on. [/quote] This is unfortunately true. While I'm not saying there should be a blanket 'shield' to protect everyone against this kind of scenario, as these kind of RPs make for the most entertainment (if you aren't the one getting stomped, its quite [b]fun[/b] to watch all the IC and OOC 'antics' hit the fan), I am against banning all forms of shields period. Whether or not this means there should be some mechanic based on IG nation strength, I'm not sure, but we should not ban shields period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Executive Minister' date='23 June 2010 - 08:14 AM' timestamp='1277295225' post='2347608'] Mudd's case was the first ever insurgency in CNRP. Furthermore, his choice to fight being 'conquered' was almost taken away from him. People are trying to take that Rp mechanic away as we speak. It doesn't help your point when we see the only reason Mudd is being permitted to 'Insurge' against Shadowsage is because of his superior IG stats. Someone like Arathog would have had no hope to win spy rolls against the combined might of you and Lavo in that East African wipe we had a few months back. In some cases, we do need shields for cases such as his. [/quote] The thing is...when a territory is conquered that does not mean the military is automatically gone....it still exists and is loyal to the nation they fought. Unless the soldiers surrender, they're going to still fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='23 June 2010 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1277295950' post='2347612'] The thing is...when a territory is conquered that does not mean the military is automatically gone....it still exists and is loyal to the nation they fought. Unless the soldiers surrender, they're going to still fight. [/quote] I agree with you. However, I am talking about OOC, not IC. OOC'ly, Mudd is only able (EDIT: Read 'permitted', 'allowed') to RP attacking Shadowsage's convoys and stuff because he is winning spy rolls using his 70% success rate, achievable only through superior IG tech and other stats. Edited June 23, 2010 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 An insurgency does not have to be done with spy rolls. It could also be purely RP'd. The only reason spy rolls were used was the fact that mudd was wiped between the end of his nation and the beginning of the insurgency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='iamthey' date='23 June 2010 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1277297329' post='2347616'] An insurgency does not have to be done with spy rolls. It could also be purely RP'd. The only reason spy rolls were used was the fact that mudd was wiped between the end of his nation and the beginning of the insurgency. [/quote] Are you absolutely sure? Absolutely? I was under the impression a conqueror is permitted to go and declare that citizens are under his control. Such a system seems a bit flimsy to me. Having to depend on the conqueror's charity instead of having something to force him to comply is unfavorable- you'll have people declaring they've summarily deported your citizens in a single post, burned all your farms and destroy gas stations. Edited June 23, 2010 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Executive Minister' date='23 June 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1277297492' post='2347618'] Are you absolutely sure? Absolutely? I was under the impression a conqueror is permitted to go 'she's staying with me now' (cookie to whoever gets that reference), and declare that citizens are under his control. Such a system seems a bit flimsy to me. Having to depend on the conqueror's charity instead of having something to force him to comply is unfavorable- you'll have people declaring they've summarily deported your citizens in a single post, burned all your farms and destroy gas stations. [/quote] If the territory was just conquered by an invader then it is still the nation of the original RP owner. Their population, soldiers, and insinuations are still loyal to them and the invader is nothing more than an occupier with IC political control. In other words there is a shared control of the territory. The occupier can impose their will with their military and whatever citizens and part of the government they can recruit, while the original owner can still muster resistance in the form of irregular insurgents or organized militias. (as long as it adds up to less than or equal to their total soldier count). The war technically wouldn't be over until the defender gave up and stopped RPing resistance, and so the occupier wouldn't have full OOC control or rights either. The recent poll done of the community by JED shows that there is more than a majority of support for this view, and it has always been my interpretation of the rules as they exist. As a GM it is also how I would rule if I were making a decision on it. Unfortunately most of our wars have never lasted long enough to reach that point, so guerrilla warfare has never been tested. Mudd's recent use of it was the first truly RP'd insurgency, and I think before that Uberstine was going to experiment with insurgency tactics when the GNR was about to invade Finland. Edited June 23, 2010 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote]This isnt the real world. In the real world, people in their own country rebel against their leaders over senseless war. That wont happen, because OOCly, why would you do that to yourself in the middle of a war? Please stop using the "real world" concept. [/quote] First of all in regards to a senseless war: I can bring up a number of foremost sinologists who will argue that China would support war with Taiwan to reunify the country at the cost of a lot of foreign trade. My regime which is based highly on chinese nationalism which is based on that countries history works fine as far as IC reasons go. The forces of nationalism throughout history have been extraordinarily powerful and have lead to a willingness to use force. Germany, Russia, China, France, Japan, India, and Pakistan all these nations over the 20th Century threw away huge percentages of their population for the forces of Nationalism. This is the real world. What people don't like is senseless foreign expeditions into areas where people do not perceive as their area of influence, the cradle of Chinese civilization certainly does NOT fall into this category. [quote]Of course there are, but who wants to have their lovely news thread interupted to play someone elses game. You cannot tell me that you'd enjoy a 50k ns plus nation rolling into your nation with 15 nations on standby, stop recognizing you exist, claim your entire country, and then say that diplomacy is a possible choice with no consequences. Come on. [/quote] Keshav's not a 2k country. He's not that far from 50k himself. Yes I did a good job on diplomacy and organizing allies. Nobody prevented Keshav from doing the same. I developed a strategy and executed it as a nation. Why should I be punished for executing a strategy because someone else chose not to? [quote] Indeed. What's funny is that I'm pretty sure Triyun was on the IG should hold higher precedent over RP camp. Not to say he wants to completely remove RP's credibility or what not. [/quote] I favor using IG stats as far as measuring military size and ability levels. I think there is a world for RP, especially in regards to figuring out how to do jiujitsu like manuvers against stronger powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Triyun' date='23 June 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1277316597' post='2347819'] Keshav's not a 2k country. He's not that far from 50k himself. Yes I did a good job on diplomacy and organizing allies. Nobody prevented Keshav from doing the same. I developed a strategy and executed it as a nation. Why should I be punished for executing a strategy because someone else chose not to? [/quote] Actually I was prevented from doing the same. Probably should read a few facts before you post eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 No reason you could not have done it instead to try and deter an invasion. Its what I would have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='23 June 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1277317068' post='2347824'] Actually I was prevented from doing the same. Probably should read a few facts before you post eh? [/quote] Everyone here should agree that you shouldn't OOCly be prevented from doing such things. Edited June 23, 2010 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 [quote name='Triyun' date='23 June 2010 - 06:20 PM' timestamp='1277317197' post='2347825'] No reason you could not have done it instead to try and deter an invasion. Its what I would have done. [/quote] Try what? I was prevented from trying it. Maybe being so dense would help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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