Sellers Revolution

[NoLaurelTree000]

even though this topic has been argued extensively before:

tbh, i can spare the money to afford 3mill/50tech deals. its quite a bit less than a day's daily collections for me and i have a nice base of tech built already.

but you know who wont be able to afford it? you, when you begin purchasing tech. because you are decreasing the amount of tech you are able to purchase with your aid slots, you will be always be playing catch up to larger nations. you will not be able to build your tech as quickly or as effectively as current tech buyers because you demanded more money for your tech while selling. now when it comes to war, you will always have less tech than current buyers and they will always have the advantage.

furthermore, when you first get to 3999 infra and begin purchasing tech, it is a serious strain on your nation to balance tech deals, saving for a wonder, purchasing infra, and maintaining a warchest. i found that during that time when i first began buying tech and saving for wonders, i could only carry 2 or 3 tech deals to keep from stagnating the growth of my nation in other areas. when you are getting half the tech for your investment that i did...well good luck with that.

Edited June 11, 2010 by NoLaurelTree000

[SeuwP]

[quote name='NoLaurelTree000' date='10 June 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1276217944' post='2332454']
even though this topic has been argued extensively before:

tbh, i can spare the money to afford 3mill/50tech deals. its quite a bit less than a day's daily collections for me and i have a nice base of tech built already.

but you know who wont be able to afford it? you, when you begin purchasing tech. because you are decreasing the amount of tech you are able to purchase with your aid slots, you will be always be playing catch up to larger nations. you will not be able to build your tech as quickly or as effectively as current tech buyers because you demanded more money for your tech while selling. now when it comes to war, you will always have less tech than current buyers and they will always have the advantage.

furthermore, when you first get to 3999 infra and begin purchasing tech, it is a serious strain on your nation to balance tech deals, saving for a wonder, purchasing infra, and maintaining a warchest. i found that during that time when i first began buying tech and saving for wonders, i could only carry 2 or 3 tech deals to keep from stagnating the growth of my nation in other areas. when you are getting half the tech for your investment that i did...well good luck with that.
[/quote]

I already know ALL of this. I would be able to catch up, not at first, but eventually I would be able to catch up. I am patient and don't care if it takes me longer.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

As i said, a higher price will only affect you guys in the end. I can collect over 9mil a day and have no problems with money. You on the other hand get less tech for your buck, while we have a huge advantage over you.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' date='11 June 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1276276575' post='2333380']
As i said, a higher price will only affect you guys in the end. I can collect over 9mil a day and have no problems with money. You on the other hand get less tech for your buck, while we have a huge advantage over you.
[/quote]

As I said, I am patient.

[agafaba]

[quote name='maxnmike' date='07 June 2010 - 03:14 AM' timestamp='1275876854' post='2327166']
Something you might not realize is that buyers don't always get all the tech they contract for. Most sellers are new nations that don't have a full understanding of how it all works. They buy too much tech and waste money, they forget, a lot of them just get bored and delete or get deleted. Then you have those few that are outright thieves who have no intention of sending the tech. It can be a huge pain for buyers if they have to nag the seller to send the tech they owe. That is why I don't even bother with tech deals outside of my alliance any longer. I am a lot more tolerant of mistakes or delays from nations within my alliance than those from without.
[/quote]

Even better reason to stick to a 50 tech first 3m after system. Larger nations are usually easier to trust for the simple matter that its bad PR to have an alliance that supports tech scams.

[quote name='asawyer' date='10 June 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1276194547' post='2331868']
The price change wouldn't matter one bit [i][b]if [/b][/i] all tech buyers were the exact same size. The issue is you have some people with 10,000+ tech who have been buying at 3/100 for years and others with less than 1000 tech that just started buying. By doubling the price, you will gradually widen the gap between mid-tier and top-tier nations. I don't blame sellers for trying to get better deals, it's just unfortunate that those in the middle will get screwed.

Interesting to think how this parallels real-world economics and a squeeze on the middle class...
[/quote]

The question then is what would lead to a bigger nation after 1 year. One that starts slower but has an easier time buying tech at a later date or one that starts much quicker and then spends more on tech? Personally I think it would benefit the smaller nations more, over 2 months the difference is 15m for 100/3m compared to 45m for 50/3m. Thats a huge difference and if a nation gives themselves a little time before buying tech they will still be making more then enough to pay for it.

Edited June 11, 2010 by agafaba

[Itsuki Koizumi]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='11 June 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1276277251' post='2333393']
As I said, I am patient.
[/quote]
isn't the whole point of getting more money is to grow faster?
let's just end this here and now, this topic is useless. Most people already sell for 3mil/50tech anyways. If you can find those deals, GREAT! If not, sucks.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Itsuki Koizumi

[agafaba]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' date='11 June 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1276278645' post='2333424']
isn't the whole point of getting more money is to grow faster?
let's just end this here and now, this topic is useless. Most people already sell for 3mil/50tech anyways. If you can find those deals, GREAT! If not, sucks.
[/quote]
Besides the fact its impossible to organize the forum sellers anyway, only way to do something like this would be to start it in your alliance and encourage others you know to do the same.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='agafaba' date='11 June 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1276279669' post='2333436']
Besides the fact its impossible to organize the forum sellers anyway, only way to do something like this would be to start it in your alliance and encourage others you know to do the same.
[/quote]

As I have sort of mentioned earlier I am planning on getting it to happen in my alliance.

[Sande]

So... You want your alliance to do 3 mil for 50 tech deals when other alliances do 3 mil for 100?

In long run it means that other alliances produce more tech for the large nations and they grow stronger than your large nations. Your alliance will be a lot weaker in the war because of that. The last war has clearly shown that lots_of_tech + WRC = ZI in a week no matter how much infra you have.

Keep the old price and don't do something you and your buyers would regret later.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Sande' date='11 June 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1276281808' post='2333479']
So... You want your alliance to do 3 mil for 50 tech deals when other alliances do 3 mil for 100?

In long run it means that other alliances produce more tech for the large nations and they grow stronger than your large nations. Your alliance will be a lot weaker in the war because of that. The last war has clearly shown that lots_of_tech + WRC = ZI in a week no matter how much infra you have.

Keep the old price and don't do something you and your buyers would regret later.
[/quote]

All the small nations will grow faster. We would have a lot a mid-power nations (along with the exsister super powers), instead of other alliances which have a bit of low power, a bit of mid power, and some superpowers.

[Sande]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='11 June 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1276282393' post='2333484']
All the small nations will grow faster. We would have a lot a mid-power nations (along with the exsister super powers), instead of other alliances which have a bit of low power, a bit of mid power, and some superpowers.
[/quote]

These so-called mid-power nations will drop really fast when they have to face a nation that has a WRC and 5k more tech than them.
Small nations will only grow their infra. And a little bit of tech. Not more then 1000-2000. Infra means nothing in a war these days since tech heavy nations will basically take you back to zero within a week.
A nation without tech is worthless. It might have lots of money and some really weak nukes it can launch, but besides that... nothing.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Sande' date='11 June 2010 - 03:19 PM' timestamp='1276287546' post='2333587']
These so-called mid-power nations will drop really fast when they have to face a nation that has a WRC and 5k more tech than them.
Small nations will only grow their infra. And a little bit of tech. Not more then 1000-2000. Infra means nothing in a war these days since tech heavy nations will basically take you back to zero within a week.
A nation without tech is worthless. It might have lots of money and some really weak nukes it can launch, but besides that... nothing.
[/quote]

Wasnt this always true? I dont see how this price raise will change much, except sellers making more money and new nations growing a bit faster.

[Stilcho]

I am delighted to provide my allies with 100 tech for 3m. I believe I would be insulted if they insisted on only receiving 50.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Stilcho

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Stilcho' date='11 June 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1276295105' post='2333913']
I am delighted to provide my allies with 100 tech for 3m. I believe I would be insulted if they insisted on only receiving 50.
[/quote]

Well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[Stilcho]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='11 June 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1276295318' post='2333923']
Well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.
[/quote]

What I meant is that sometimes there are considerations other than short term profit. A large, new alliance full of low NS nations can benefit greatly from the protection of a hungry-for-tech larger alliance.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Stilcho' date='11 June 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1276295625' post='2333938']
What I meant is that sometimes there are considerations other than short term profit. A large, new alliance full of low NS nations can benefit greatly from the protection of a hungry-for-tech larger alliance.
[/quote]

That is under certain circumstances, but yes. I think the majority of sellers would benefit from the price increase.

[NoLaurelTree000]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='10 June 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1276224032' post='2332633']
I already know ALL of this. I would be able to catch up, not at first, but eventually I would be able to catch up. I am patient and don't care if it takes me longer.
[/quote]

no you wont be able to catch up. ever. how do you propose that you use the same amount of aid slots, get less tech per aid slot, and catch up? unless of course youre a wizard, then i could understand that.



[quote name='SeuwP' date='11 June 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1276282393' post='2333484']
All the small nations will grow faster. We would have a lot a mid-power nations (along with the exsister super powers), instead of other alliances which have a bit of low power, a bit of mid power, and some superpowers.
[/quote]

you mean youll have a whole alliance of weaker-than-par nations besides the bottom? by all means continue. id love to fight an alliance like that in the future.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='NoLaurelTree000' date='11 June 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1276306880' post='2334188']
no you wont be able to catch up. ever. how do you propose that you use the same amount of aid slots, get less tech per aid slot, and catch up? unless of course youre a wizard, then i could understand that.




you mean youll have a whole alliance of weaker-than-par nations besides the bottom? by all means continue. id love to fight an alliance like that in the future.
[/quote]

I could catch up just as much either way because either way both large an mid-sized nations are paying the same... I dont understand why you do not realize this.
Either way, if you think about it, they will grow the same large nation still only affords idk example: 9 million and smaller nation 3 million (this is only for example so dont take these exact figures like they are real), only difference instead of 100 tech per 3 million they are both making 50 tech.



I would like to see an alliance with 40 percent weak, 40 percent mid-ranged, and 20 percent super-powers(another example) try to face an alliance with 20 percent weak 60 percent mid-ranged and 20 percent superpowers.

Edited June 12, 2010 by SeuwP

[Sande]

You are still wrong.
You have only 4 to 6 aid slots. 3 mil/100 vs 3 mil/50 means that the first nation builds tech faster.

Also it will not be 40-40-20 vs 20-60-20. It will more likely be 30-40-30 vs 20-60-20. But the nations in the first alliance will have a lot better tech advantage.

[knighta]

[quote name='Sande' date='11 June 2010 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1276287546' post='2333587']
These so-called mid-power nations will drop really fast when they have to face a nation that has a WRC and 5k more tech than them.
[/quote]

What is a WRC? I am still learning all these acronyms and thanks.

[All the wright moves]

WRC is weapons research complex, it is a wonder that doubles the damage that tech does in wars.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Sande' date='12 June 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1276325412' post='2334722']
You are still wrong.
You have only 4 to 6 aid slots. 3 mil/100 vs 3 mil/50 means that the first nation builds tech faster.

Also it will not be 40-40-20 vs 20-60-20. It will more likely be 30-40-30 vs 20-60-20. But the nations in the first alliance will have a lot better tech advantage.
[/quote]

... the point is EVERY seller switches to new price not just sellers to the midpower nations...

[Itsuki Koizumi]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='12 June 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1276369831' post='2335260']
... the point is EVERY seller switches to new price not just sellers to the midpower nations...
[/quote]
which means those with 5000 tech will always have 5000 more tech than you if you both buy at the same rate.

[SeuwP]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' date='12 June 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1276378118' post='2335402']
which means those with 5000 tech will always have 5000 more tech than you if you both buy at the same rate.
[/quote]

that pretty much how it is now. Most people buy for 100t/3mil except for super large nations

[Baldr]

[quote name='SeuwP' date='09 June 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1276142518' post='2331205']
BUT like I have said several times (which you should really read) maybe less people will quit the game which will increase number of sellers.
[/quote]

Assuming nobody quits, then these smaller nations who are sellers should, in time, grow and become buyers. Therefore, it doesn't increase the number of sellers, and potentially makes the ratio higher on the buyer end.

[quote name='SeuwP' date='09 June 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1276143118' post='2331228']
A point I will try to now make from your words (because of how much tech you say costs you directly) wth would big nations (like you) care about this price increase???? [/quote]

If it were just money, higher prices wouldn't bother me. You don't seem to understand that the change you are suggesting is impacted by the limited number of aid slots. If I pay $3M and get 50 tech, that takes one aid slot 20 days. It averages to 2.5 tech a day I can bring in. If I pay 3M for 100, it takes 1 aid slot 30 days. That averaged 3.333 tech I bring in every day.

[quote]you are still saving ALOT. So does it matter if all sellers increase to you (except for the fact you seem greedy)? [/quote]

I'm arguing that I should pay 3/100, the same amount that I sold tech for. You are arguing that you should get paid more for tech. And you are calling me greedy. This entire thread is based on your "I want more money, I don't want to do what has been done for a long time, *everyone* should change in order to make me happy" argument.