Celestial Being Announcement

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='27 May 2010 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1274986845' post='2313729']


Protecting alliances, is what everyone does. The only notable thing they did was protecting ERA. That was a bold move which I liked. The freedom of the sea's pact is still new. It could change in the future who would know. It's been barely four months since CB reformed, while they have done quite a bit, only with time and consistency would make me change my mind.
[/quote]

Celestial Being has been doing what was in the Freedom of the Seas Pact since our creation, so that is not something that really changed, only that we got other alliances to help us out in our cause. And fair enough on that point, but do remember that for those 4 months we have been consistent already, so at best your argument will hold water when we start veering away from that path.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='27 May 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1274987062' post='2313732']
Celestial Being has been doing what was in the Freedom of the Seas Pact since our creation, so that is not something that really changed, only that we got other alliances to help us out in our cause. And fair enough on that point, but do remember that for those 4 months we have been consistent already, so at best your argument will hold water when we start veering away from that path.
[/quote]

Only time will tell. We don't know what could be of Celestial Being four months down the line. I expect under good guidance, you guys would only become better and stick to your policies, this I look forward to.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='27 May 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1274987182' post='2313733']
Only time will tell. We don't know what could be of Celestial Being four months down the line. I expect under good guidance, you guys would only become better and stick to your policies, this I look forward to.
[/quote]

As do we, thanks for the well wishes.

[leprecon]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='27 May 2010 - 04:21 AM' timestamp='1274930501' post='2312998']
As such as of this moment we will be sending out $15 million to IRON nations at war for their freedom from a war that should have ended long ago, and against terms that should not be allowed to pass.
[/quote]

Sweet !

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='27 May 2010 - 04:21 AM' timestamp='1274930501' post='2312998']
At this point we have already informed our protectors in the Viridian Entente that any help that would be required by our treaty be waived as a direct result of this action. This is our personal stance and we will not use VE's good faith and trust in us to abused as leverage. We will stand up for what we believe in on our own two feet, and accept the responsibility of our actions, just as gremlins must now do.

Thank you for your time,

WarriorConcept, Veda of Celestial being
[/quote]

Don't worry, I would be glad to fight for such a noble cause [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=86516&view=findpost&p=2313034](and I am not the only Viridian that thinks so)[/url]

Thanks for being so considerate towards us.

Edited May 27, 2010 by leprecon

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='27 May 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1274979212' post='2313620']
I'm at a loss here, really. I can't understand for the life of me how, IRON and Gramlins being established alliances mean we can or can not help one of them, or intervene in the conflict. There is simply no connection between the two. Also, if demanding unconditional surrender before reps are outlined, is in fact wrong, then it make no difference that IRON preemptively attacked CnG. Wrong is wrong, not matter how you package it. The \m/ posters in this thread are grabbing for logical straws here. I don't know why they are embarrassing themselves for the sake of Gramlins, who have pretty much shown they don't care what we think, what is done to help IRON, or about the destruction of their alliance
[/quote]
Iron would not be in this position if they hadn't aggressively attacked others, am I wrong?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='27 May 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1274982439' post='2313674']
What people don't seem to understand is we know our donation in this matter is small, and gremlins could very well overlook it. That suits us fine, then maybe other alliances will realize there are no repercussions to aiding IRON and DAWN and maybe more support will come in, to the point that gremlins cannot ignore it. At that point they can try to fight everyone, call on their allies for support and find that well possibly missing, or finally be sane enough to accept white peace. If they choose to attack us, well I have other alliances who've been offering lots of support so we'll see what happens then. If their allies attack us instead, it's a PR nightmare because those chants of "gremlins enablers" will become true and they'll be pushing themselves into a corner on the political landscape.

Basically what we're saying is that we're forcing the issue to speed this war up and hope for it to finally end, as that is the ultimate goal. And heck our aid will at least help some IRON nations be able to fight more effectively, and for some reason I don't expect us to remain the only alliance to be sending out aid to IRON over the coming days
[/quote]
What right do you have to speed a war Iron started?

[Chief Savage Man]

I don't really care what you do with your money but please don't insult my intelligence by acting like this is a major risk. Gramlins can't even retain their members let alone launch any kind of meaningful offensive against CB. Especially when your protectors come in later to tell everybody to stay away. I believe you believe in what you're doing but you're not putting anything on the line and you know it.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='26 May 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1274931183' post='2313025']
If the thought that everyone hates them hasn't made them sore in the past two months then this won't be doing much.

But good luck I suppose.
[/quote][quote name='WarriorConcept' date='26 May 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1274931415' post='2313032']
Thoughts can only travel so far, at the very least we're going to remind them that some people will not just sit by and only speak out against evil, but also act on it.
[/quote]

Here...

[quote][b]It is a revolutionary world we live in, and this generation at home and around the world has had thrust upon it a greater burden of responsibility than any generation that has ever lived. Some believe there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills. Yet many of the world's great movements, of thought and action, have flowed from the work of a single man.......

These men moved the world, and so can we all. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation. *It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped.* Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.

Few are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change. And I believe that in this generation those with the courage to enter the moral conflict will find themselves with companions in every corner of the globe. - RFK[/b][/quote]

Edited May 27, 2010 by Fernando12

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274994346' post='2313840']
What right do you have to speed a war Iron started?
[/quote]

The thing is that IRON has already admitted to their mistakes and have surrendered. They were more than willing to surrender to Gre with proper terms. So I don't think the argument of "IRON started this" works anymore. They're more than willing to own up to what they've done.

The way I see it, Gre started a whole new mess of things by making this demand of unconditional surrender. That is why you see the public outrage for Gre and the large amount of supporters who are trying to find loopholes into helping IRON without directly going to war with Gre.

So \m/ is wondering why people are outraged at you specifically for sending aid to Gre. I think it's pretty obvious why. You're siding yourselves with what they call "unjust" and they are siding themselves with what they call "just". They think that they are in the right and you are in the wrong. You are more than welcome to send aid to Gre, but don't be dumbfounded when you find public outcry for such actions.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1274994893' post='2313848']
The thing is that IRON has already admitted to their mistakes and have surrendered. They were more than willing to surrender to Gre with proper terms. So I don't think the argument of "IRON started this" works anymore. They're more than willing to own up to what they've done.

The way I see it, Gre started a whole new mess of things by making this demand of unconditional surrender. That is why you see the public outrage for Gre and the large amount of supporters who are trying to find loopholes into helping IRON without directly going to war with Gre.

So \m/ is wondering why people are outraged at you specifically for sending aid to Gre. I think it's pretty obvious why. You're siding yourselves with what they call "unjust" and they are siding themselves with what they call "just". They think that they are in the right and you are in the wrong. You are more than welcome to send aid to Gre, but don't be dumbfounded when you find public outcry for such actions.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, what horrors await Iron if they were to unconditionally surrender?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1274995108' post='2313851']
Out of curiosity, what horrors await Iron if they were to unconditionally surrender?
[/quote]

Say IRON did agree to unconditional surrender (which they have no need to do) and GRE puts ridiculous terms to them and IRON decides not to abide by them. Will people rip IRON for breaking surrender terms? I would hope not but I expect many will want to jump on IRON for doing so.

It matters not as IRON is winning this battle, slowly but victory will be sweet for them whenever and for however long it takes.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='27 May 2010 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1274995349' post='2313857']
It matters not as IRON is winning this battle, slowly but victory will be sweet for them whenever and for however long it takes.
[/quote]

This is what I'm saying. CB is aiding IRON at a time when the need (and risk) has largely disappeared.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1274995108' post='2313851']
Out of curiosity, what horrors await Iron if they were to unconditionally surrender?
[/quote]

Unconditional surrender in the Cyberverse carries a negative connotation. The stigma that goes along with it is certainly negative; not just in our realm but in other realms. To completely surrender your freedom and grant the victor permission to do whatever they so please is horrifying in itself. I can tell you that neither of our respective alliances would ever agree to such terms. Right?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1274995540' post='2313862']
Unconditional surrender in the Cyberverse carries a negative connotation. The stigma that goes along with it is certainly negative; not just in our realm but in other realms. To completely surrender your freedom and grant the victor permission to do whatever they so please is horrifying in itself. I can tell you that neither of our respective alliances would ever agree to such terms. Right?
[/quote]
So it is then fair to say all this public out cry is over a stigma and negative connotation? Has there ever been a unconditional surrender one can point to that justifies such drama?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='27 May 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1274995349' post='2313857']
Say IRON did agree to unconditional surrender (which they have no need to do) and GRE puts ridiculous terms to them and IRON decides not to abide by them. Will people rip IRON for breaking surrender terms? I would hope not but I expect many will want to jump on IRON for doing so.

It matters not as IRON is winning this battle, slowly [b]but victory will be sweet for them whenever and for however long it takes[/b].
[/quote]
Why all the hype and crying when everyone knows that, in the end, Iron will be victorious?

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1274996059' post='2313875']
So it is then fair to say all this public out cry is over a stigma and negative connotation? Has there ever been a unconditional surrender one can point to that justifies such drama?
[/quote]

I think that's fair statement. But you still would agree that neither of our respective alliances would submit to such a demand. When you place yourself into IRON's shoes, that's where you get the outrage from.

Me? I'm not outraged. I'm a little irritated by the fact that our friends are still fighting in this damned war even after they've surrendered to all but one of their enemies.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1274996392' post='2313882']
I think that's fair statement. But you still would agree that neither of our respective alliances would submit to such a demand. When you place yourself into IRON's shoes, that's where you get the outrage from.

Me? I'm not outraged. I'm a little irritated by the fact that our friends are still fighting in this damned war even after they've surrendered to all but one of their enemies.
[/quote]
I completely agree that neither of our alliances would submit to such terms, then again I don't expect that the world would baw like a nursery full of day old babies over us either.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1274996779' post='2313888']
I completely agree that neither of our alliances would submit to such terms, then again I don't expect that the world would baw like a nursery full of day old babies over us either.
[/quote]

I'm not surprised at all. But baw is the wrong term; I like to use outrage or outcry.

If you place yourselves into the shoes of moralists and the like, then you will expect people to be outraged at this.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274994346' post='2313840']
What right do you have to speed a war Iron started?
[/quote]

That would be a more meaningful argument if the people that IRON attacked hadn't already reached peace with them and even themselves stated that they can't agree with what gremlins is demanding. However to answer your question, I have the right of a sovereign alliance to stand up for what we believe in, just like gremlins is doing I suppose, but our right is still there.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='27 May 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1274994605' post='2313841']
I don't really care what you do with your money but please don't insult my intelligence by acting like this is a major risk. Gramlins can't even retain their members let alone launch any kind of meaningful offensive against CB. Especially when your protectors come in later to tell everybody to stay away. I believe you believe in what you're doing but you're not putting anything on the line and you know it.
[/quote]

If you care to note, VE said they'd interfere if gremlins retaliated. I did not ask them to nor expected it when I wrote up this announcement, so them saying so after the fact just makes me respect them that much more. On the same note gremlins does have allies still, well one ally and the rest paperless allies I suppose. These people have been called "enablers" by several over the last month or so, and well now is the time to see if they're really enabling anything at all and will act or if it's just smokes and mirrors.

Would be fun to see how much bigger the backlash against gremlins will be when those "enablers" go missing, no? Or the terrible PR the people who fight will get for being said "enablers". Balls in your court guys.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='27 May 2010 - 09:51 PM' timestamp='1274997044' post='2313893']
That would be a more meaningful argument if the people that IRON attacked hadn't already reached peace with them and even themselves stated that they can't agree with what gremlins is demanding. However to answer your question, I have the right of a sovereign alliance to stand up for what we believe in, just like gremlins is doing I suppose, but our right is still there.



If you care to note, VE said they'd interfere if gremlins retaliated. I did not ask them to nor expected it when I wrote up this announcement, so them saying so after the fact just makes me respect them that much more. On the same note gremlins does have allies still, well one ally and the rest paperless allies I suppose. These people have been called "enablers" by several over the last month or so, and well now is the time to see if they're really enabling anything at all and will act or if it's just smokes and mirrors.

Would be fun to see how much bigger the backlash against gremlins will be when those "enablers" go missing, no? Or the terrible PR the people who fight will get for being said "enablers". Balls in your court guys.
[/quote]
Iron started a war which rightfully drew in the Gramlins, and you are complaining when Gramlins fail to give peace before they are satisfied with the conclusion, am I getting it right?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1274994032' post='2313835']
Iron would not be in this position if they hadn't aggressively attacked others, am I wrong?
[/quote]

IRON started a war with CnG and has since gained peace from CnG. Gremlins aggressively attacked IRON remember. you did not answer my earlier questions as well.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1274996779' post='2313888']
I completely agree that neither of our alliances would submit to such terms, then again I don't expect that the world would baw like a nursery full of day old babies over us either.
[/quote]

i am not sure. i would certainly have more mixed feelings over it. in the end, many would bawww of you such as your allies in RoK and most likely most of SF who have been largely silent over IRON/DAWN. in fact, a good portion of the world has either been silent or stated that IRON/DAWN deserve this.

if for some odd reason, later down the road \m/ gets stuck in this situation i am fairly certain given ya'lls attitudes during this incident, i doubt you would gain much sympathy at all. i for one would find it rather ironic personally and just may aid whoever is attempting to gain unconditional surrender from ya'll since you seem to love to do that now.

but most likely, i would aid \m/ cuz despite me despising ya'll, i don't like unconditional surrender more. that is the difference between me and you. you state you would never accept these terms, which means that obviously you find something wrong with unconditional surrender, but you aid those who are trying to gain unconditional surrender from IRON/DAWN simply because you do not like IRON or DAWN.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='27 May 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1274996996' post='2313892']
I'm not surprised at all. But baw is the wrong term; I like to use outrage or outcry.

If you place yourselves into the shoes of moralists and the like, then you will expect people to be outraged at this.
[/quote]
You have to admit, that for either of our alliances to "put ourselves" in the moralists shoes is a stretch beyond ones wildest imagination.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1274997281' post='2313899']
Iron started a war which rightfully drew in the Gramlins, and you are complaining when Gramlins fail to give peace before they are satisfied with the conclusion, am I getting it right?
[/quote]

Rightfully drew them in? I didn't know they held a treaty with MK, but that's really irrelevant. The main people that were attacked and gremlins supposedly went in to defend were MK, and even they have already concluded the conflict and want this current war to end. So yes, considering the reason for this whole fight starting is already concluded, I am complaining. And acting.

[Merrie Melodies]

At this time I would also like to remind people who said I was paranoid when CB announced their anti raiding protection and I stated VE would have CB's back even if it involved large established alliances, take a look at what has been said in this thread.

Epic "anti tech raiding moralist war" to follow.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1274997572' post='2313909']
At this time I would also like to remind people who said I was paranoid when CB announced their anti raiding protection and I stated VE would have CB's back even if it involved large established alliances, take a look at what has been said in this thread.

Epic "anti tech raiding moralist war" to follow.
[/quote]

Yes, we're doing this to fight against tech raiding

Come now, you're just reaching for straws at this point.